Balintawak Grouping Systems

Discussion in 'Balintawak' started by lightninghands, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. Robert Klampfer

    Robert Klampfer MCLMM

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    No doubt!

    :wink1:

    Robert
     
  2. manhattan1

    manhattan1 Yellow Belt

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    2) No i am not......

    4) I write skills is found out by training with each other, if you read it again....

    5) Cebu City is still considered the place for FMA/Eskrima.
     
  3. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry, but the FMA's have spread around the world. Great Filipino martial arts can be found in many places! (many places with no one place being the place)
     
  4. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    5)
    In the 80's the GM of the system I was training in and still teach lived over half the year less than an hour away.

    In the 90's through today another GM lives within an hour + of my house and I trained with him weekly and others of his students multiple times a week until his Stroke that side lined him.

    So, with such knowledge available in my own backyard, why would I not train with them? Would it not be arrogant to go train with people that they had trained in the PI and not with them?

    4) Like I said there was ways to present, and your intention may have been A, but it your impacy has been B.

    2) See 4.
     
  5. bobby taboada

    bobby taboada White Belt

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  6. manhattan1

    manhattan1 Yellow Belt

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    Sure some have left, but saying that the Philippines is no longer home of FMA/Eskrima is a big mistake in my mind.....
    Here in Cebu City alone we have Master Velez, GM. John Villasin, GM. Nick Elizar, GM. Max Caballes, the HQ of Doce Pares and i am sure i forgot to mention some....But if you can find a places anywhere else in the world with as many Grandmasters within FMA as here in the Philippines, please let me know where that is?

    Why would i get mad over that, you are right i should say the Philippines.... :)

    Sincerly yours,

    Jan Jensen
    http://www.fma-arnis.dk
     
  7. du212

    du212 White Belt

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    Holy crud...and here i was thinking how nice and quiet FMAtalk/Balintawak had gotten...i follow one link (good post) on live hand path and poof ! I've found my way back to the Jan Jensen show!

    I can say this at least, Jan your attitude and posts have certainly united the Balintawak brotherhood b/c its clear isnt it? that you are not making friends in the Global Balintawak community (online) and that may be fine with you...but when you do get the opportunity to "crosstrain" with someone on this list, please let us know when that video is posted.

    Hey, congrats on getting to nearly instructor level in Villasin Balintawak. Do you have any videos of you feeding your student?
     
  8. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You see Jan that is not what I have said at all.

    You stated that Cebu City is the place for eskrima and the FMA's. (certainly it is a great place to train) Conversely I am happy to tell you that the FMA's are now world wide and you can practice them in just about any country. Some countries have a plethora of Filipino teacher's and even more teacher's that are now non Filipino in race. I think if you look at GM Bobby Taboada's post you will see the right way to promote the arts as from the Philippines in general and also understand that there are a vast majority of FMA practitioner's who have practice or are practicing with some of the best instructor's available around the world! [​IMG]
     
  9. manhattan1

    manhattan1 Yellow Belt

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    Fair enough, i should not have said Cebu City only, but as GM. Bobby says the Philippines.....
    We can also agree that FMA is other places then just here in the Philippines.... :)

    Sincerly yours,

    Jan Jensen
    http://www.fma-arnis.dk
     
  10. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Cool! [​IMG]
     
  11. Brian Johns

    Brian Johns Black Belt

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    Wow. Mr. Jensen, I am not in the least bit impressed with your posturing here and alienating much of the Balintawak community in the process.

    There is one flaw with your central argument, implied or otherwise. Your argument seems to indicate a belief that the Villasin method is superior to the Velez method and implying that those who descend from Velez lineage are inferior.

    Debating whose method is superior or who is inferior is an exercise in futility. The real question is how much you practice ? More and more research have revealed that the real key to expert performance is the amount of practice you put in. This growing academic field is referred to as "deliberate practice." Google it....or better yet, go to Google Scholar and type in "deliberate practice" and you will find a fair number of scholarly papers on this topic. Research to date indicates that the greater number of hours of practice devoted to a certain discipline leads to increased expert performance.

    For example, why was Bobby Fischer a chess grandmaster at such an early age ? One might say that he had inborn talent and was a child prodigy. A closer analysis indicates that he had collected over 300 books on chess strategy by the time he was 13 ! Most importantly, he practiced obsessively.

    As applied to the martial arts, what really matters is how much practice you put in rather than which method you learn. As Professor Presas used to say so many times in his endearing Filipino accent, "You must flactice !"

    What happens if you put in one or two hours of practice of the Villasin method while others train 5 hours a day in some other method ? I would put my money on those who have accumulated more hours of practice.

    So in my view, the idea that one method/system/style is superior is, for the most part, bunk. It's how much you practice. If the Villasin method is so superior, explain to me why you won't fare well against one who has practiced the Velez method for 10, 15 or 20 years ? It's the amount of practice.....not the method that is the real key here.

    Finally, your line of argument denigrates those who have put in untold hours of practice and training into their chosen method (in this case, the Velez lineage). Regardless of style, system or method, I have the utmost respect for those who have poured their heart, soul and sweat into the art they love.

    Regards,
    Brian Johns
     
  12. soncen

    soncen Yellow Belt

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    You might be correct of about 90% of the Balintawak family believes Atty. Villasin created this and only few says it was Mr. Velez and I am one of this few people, because only few people knows about it. But I don’t mind majority of them believes it was Atty Villasin as the innovator, even Mr. Velez himself doesn’t mind giving that honor to his beloved teacher. Who am I to push it hard in the minds of people?

    This few people knows that Atty Villasin was only formulating the innovated method of teaching started by Mr. Velez when he adapted it and the form was arranged by him in proper order and decided what was to be part in the group # 1, the group # 2, the group # 3, the group # 4 and the group # 5. All are in proper sequence and Mr. Velez gladly approved it and he practiced it from then on.

    But when you look at John’s demos in the youtube, you can only see different thing and I heard some people say it is very uninteresting, boring and very funny to look at just like children’s game of duel in the vacant lot. However it is a kind of martial art that they love most believing it was the most effective self-defense they ever learned, that for me is worthy of respect no matter what it is like to be.

    Mr. Jan Jensen is telling us that it was the original grouping method innovated by Atty. Villasin and Mr. Velez did not learned from it because he did not finished his training according to Gm John as was told to him. Well it is his right to tell anything what he believed and let the people believe and let them accept what he claims to be the real truth, there’s no problem with me.

    I just feel the need to inform the people around the world especially those that are practicing the Balintawak style who are thirsty of more believable information about our martial arts and believe me that my only purpose in posting here is to contribute and share some factual knowledge and not to stir the whole Balintawak community in fact I am calling for unity, friendship and brotherhood.

    [FONT=&quot]I would just be happy if Mr. Jan Jensen would accept the invitation from WOTBAG group to have a dialogue and discuss things to make it clear on both sides and I think it would be nice if we can hold an international convention five months from now on the occasion of Gm Bobby Taboada’s arrival here in Cebu, Philippines to strengthen our friendship.[/FONT]
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2009
  13. free2flow

    free2flow White Belt

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    Don't worry, this is already been taken cared of when WOTBAG visited GM Villasin in Ayala.
     
  14. bobby taboada

    bobby taboada White Belt

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    DECEMBER 13 SEMINAR WITH THE THREE TREASURES OF BALINTAWAK.
    VISIT nngbalintawak.com FOR FLYERS AND THE VENUES
     
  15. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Good luck!
     
  16. kaloy

    kaloy White Belt

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    hello everybody,
    i am carlo "kaloy" campana, a childhood friend of GM John Villasin and we've been practicing the Balintawak Grouping system since we're 13 yrs old, and this is the grouping system of Villasin Balintawak:

    Group 1: Lifting and Clearing
    Group 2: Butting/Clearing
    Group 3: Body Movement (Tostsada)
    Group 4: Familiarization of Wild Blows
    Group 5: Combination of Boxing Blows

    Nong "Joe" atty Jose Villasin creating this method of teaching for easy to understand and remember, but the Grouping system is only a basic for easy to play when student doing the "palakaw". He also teach us the Anciong's way before he created the GROUPING SYSTEM...

    pugay!
     
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  17. kaloy

    kaloy White Belt

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    BALINTAWAK SUGBU
     
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  18. kaloy

    kaloy White Belt

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    GROUPING system; it doesn't matter how good you are in GROUPING, for it is not the real fight, it is only a play/basic that booth student can do the "PALAKAW". You don't even know the strike of your opponent in actual fight, it is between force and speed who brought you to the finished line...
     

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