Attention Male USAT athletes :Dont bother

[msmitht]

So the word is that The USAT has unofficially selected the 2 male athletes that will be attending the next Olympic games. Guess who they will be? That's right : Mark and Steve Lopez.
I spent a week with athletes at OTC for the pan am team trials and the Rocky mountain open. The word going round the stands/locker rooms/living quarters is that Mark will drop to featherweight and our golden boy will hopefully be golden again (unless he meets Arron Cook). The coaching staff did not deny this when asked. They just said "we'll see, but most likely...".
My response:"I believe that there are still team trials to consider, unless they are planning another fiasco like what happened in the Nia/Dianna fight off." I got no reply.
I am not saying that Mark does not deserve to go. I just think that he should stay in his weight class and let someone else have a chance.
Any thoughts?

 

[terryl965]

I believe Lamden should have a shot at it, he has certainly paid his due's over the years, also I was under the impression Mark was retiring because ne wanted to settle down with his new wife? I know USAT wants them and Dianna back, but we have better choices at the time in our sport. Not taking anything away from anybody just does not seem fair and if this is true Team Trails mean absolutely nothing so why go.

 

[Gorilla]

The rules state that he can pick the division if he likes. I don't have a problem with that. They still have to fight!!! It will be much harder to fix these fights with the EBP's!!! Not impossible just harder!!! I don't think that Mark is a lock in Feather!!!! There is some new blood in light/welter that have styles that will give Steven a problem. One of the fighters is very similar to Aaron Cook!!!

I am going to make predictions closer to the trails.

 

[Gorilla]

I believe Lamden should have a shot at it, he has certainly paid his due's over the years, also I was under the impression Mark was retiring because ne wanted to settle down with his new wife? I know USAT wants them and Dianna back, but we have better choices at the time in our sport. Not taking anything away from anybody just does not seem fair and if this is true Team Trails mean absolutely nothing so why go.

They did not pick Lambdin's division!!!!! He would be a great representative in the Heavyweight Division!!! I don't think that he would do well in Light/Welter
to much weight to cut!!!!

 

[d1jinx]

NOTE TO SELF:

Knock them out, force them try to create another excuse to say you lost.

 

[granfire]

LOL, think that works?

 

[terryl965]

Yesterday at the tournament we instructors was talking about this very thing and everybody agreed that the system has to amny flaws and needs to be replace. Nobody had any better ideals to help make it better but they all agread it needed to be changed for the sport.

I have always believe in a fair tournament record thoughout a two year period based on points from certain events that they must compete in. They must compete or recieve negative points because of pulling out, now if they are injured and I mean injured not pretending that that will not be held against them. But even that can have too many varibles in it, so it need to be a true fight off with the top five in each wieght class and then have those winners records pulled against the other countries athletes from those wieght classes to see who has the best chances for victory.

At anyrate it is what it is a who you know and what side of the fence will you keep your athlete on.

 

[StudentCarl]

I don't think there's a sport in the world where cronyism is not an issue, and if there is I'm sure there's still someone complaining about it. Even if we go to full electronic scoring (with electronic headgear and gloves) and base only on a fight-off, there would still be issues. Committed athletes can't get turned away by that crap.

I disagree with the "don't bother" comment. If you're a committed athlete you should always work to be your best; strive to be the athlete they cannot ignore without claims of bias. Work to be the best in your dojang, your state, your nation, the world, or what ever level you are competitive in. Is your life somehow diminished if you don't compete as an olympian?

The reality is that we get fewer olympic slots than we have qualified people. If you're world champion and you don't get the slot, it's a lick on USAT, not on you. Yes, a perfect system would be nice, but there would still be complaints. I'd rather compete than go home and suck my thumb.

As far as the OP goes, I hope people aren't making decisions based on rumors without knowing the source. Without the source, how can we separate opinion from authority?

I'm proud of our athletes and am always in awe when seeing our national and international level people compete.

 

[terryl965]

I always back who ever we send they are the US pics. but we need anew system for picking the team. Bottom line is the way it is done now is just not right, period. I tell my son Zachary to train compete and let whatever happens happen, we have other avenues if need be with other counties but seriously his shots will be 2016 and 2020 so he has time for those slots to open up and if he keeps winning he will open people eyes and the door will open. I do not believe you need to be in certain people camps to make it, but instead just train.

 

[Gorilla]

I don't think there's a sport in the world where cronyism is not an issue, and if there is I'm sure there's still someone complaining about it. Even if we go to full electronic scoring (with electronic headgear and gloves) and base only on a fight-off, there would still be issues. Committed athletes can't get turned away by that crap.

I disagree with the "don't bother" comment. If you're a committed athlete you should always work to be your best; strive to be the athlete they cannot ignore without claims of bias. Work to be the best in your dojang, your state, your nation, the world, or what ever level you are competitive in. Is your life somehow diminished if you don't compete as an olympian?

The reality is that we get fewer olympic slots than we have qualified people. If you're world champion and you don't get the slot, it's a lick on USAT, not on you. Yes, a perfect system would be nice, but there would still be complaints. I'd rather compete than go home and suck my thumb.

As far as the OP goes, I hope people aren't making decisions based on rumors without knowing the source. Without the source, how can we separate opinion from authority?

I'm proud of our athletes and am always in awe when seeing our national and international level people compete.

The rumor is coming from the Lopez Camp.....They don't want you to bother to fight or train. They(Lopez's) don't like to fight outside of the World Championships and the Olympics. They believe that they are the first family of TKD and they should go with out question. They believe they should be appointed and that we should get in line behind them!!!!

Steven ventured out of a controlled environment in Mexico(Pro TKD in Mexico) and got knocked out by Aaron Cook!!! The National Team Coaches like to stack the deck as best they can and that is why they don't fight in events outside of their control!!!!To much chance of getting beat!!!!

With the Electronic Body Protectors it will be harder to stack the deck(Not Impossible). I think this year we have a much better chance of seeing the Lopez's get beat than we did in 2008 Olympic trials!!!!

 

[StudentCarl]

That is interesting motive to start a rumor. If they are the source then they challenge the integrity of the group they want to choose them.

Suggesting that the team selection is rigged (already done) really means that USAT can only defend their integrity by being completely transparent with all scores and every bit of the selection process done in public and not behind closed doors.

Any less will feed the belief that USAT is headquartered in Texas and loyal to a faction rather than the whole nation. Throwing gas on that fire could undermine USAT as an NGB. This will be interesting to watch.

 

[granfire]

That is interesting motive to start a rumor. If they are the source then they challenge the integrity of the group they want to choose them.

Suggesting that the team selection is rigged (already done) really means that USAT can only defend their integrity by being completely transparent with all scores and every bit of the selection process done in public and not behind closed doors.

Any less will feed the belief that USAT is headquartered in Texas and loyal to a faction rather than the whole nation. Throwing gas on that fire could undermine USAT as an NGB. This will be interesting to watch.

You think that is more interesting than the election procedings?
Or personal choices?
Or the rumored transgressions of the illegal kind?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I just dont understand it. If I was in charge of selecting the Australian tkd team I would want to win at all costs to keep my job safe and the only way to do that would be to pick the athletes that I am the most sure will win. By giving "jobs to the boys" it would only increase the chance I might fail. I cant understand why they would pick people who arent the best. I can understand picking people who have extra experience for the 'big events', this happens in all sports where you want your experienced players out there on the big stage as they have been there before and handle the pressure better. For example, if you were picking a world golf team and at the trials tiger woods had a bad round would you leave him out of the team? I think not. Is this the thinking behind the lopez's supposed intant selection? Im not involved in sport tkd or a sports selector, but reading this thread it just makes no sense why anybody would knowingly not pick the best team.

 

[StudentCarl]

You think that is more interesting than the election procedings?
Or personal choices?
Or the rumored transgressions of the illegal kind?

Not more interesting but more visible, as olympic related news draws a wider audience than other affairs.

 

[Gorilla]

I just dont understand it. If I was in charge of selecting the Australian tkd team I would want to win at all costs to keep my job safe and the only way to do that would be to pick the athletes that I am the most sure will win. By giving "jobs to the boys" it would only increase the chance I might fail. I cant understand why they would pick people who arent the best. I can understand picking people who have extra experience for the 'big events', this happens in all sports where you want your experienced players out there on the big stage as they have been there before and handle the pressure better. For example, if you were picking a world golf team and at the trials tiger woods had a bad round would you leave him out of the team? I think not. Is this the thinking behind the lopez's supposed intant selection? Im not involved in sport tkd or a sports selector, but reading this thread it just makes no sense why anybody would knowingly not pick the best team.

It is not the matter of who makes the team that I have a probelm with!!!

It is how they stack the deck! If the Lopez's are the best let them fight for it on an even playing field!

Dianne Lopez was not the best in her division Nia Abdallah was clearly better but that deck was stacked!!!!

 

[terryl965]

It is not the matter of who makes the team that I have a probelm with!!!

It is how they stack the deck! If the Lopez's are the best let them fight for it on an even playing field!

Dianne Lopez was not the best in her division Nia Abdallah was clearly better but that deck was stacked!!!!

I agree if you are the best fight the best and make it a level playinmg field.

 

[texkwondo]

I really don't know where some of this nonsense comes from, as far as Lopez hate goes. I used to think the Lopez team sucked too. But that was 8 years ago when I was a blue belt and didn't know anything about Taekwondo and believed every word of propaganda that came out of my Korean master's mouth.

Are they dishonorable people? Certainly. Do they play cronyism to their favor? Absolutely. Are they the best? Yes. There is really no question to that one. Thoughts to the contrary I can only assume come from some irrational hatred. I hear a lot of hype about Vladmir and Aaron Cook. Who are these people and what have they done that is so great?

Tell me, were you there at 2009 US National team trials? I sure as heck was. And if you can watch the final two minutes of the last match between Vlad and Mark, see Vlad completely zombie out and take punches to the chest while staring blankly into the distance, and still tell me "Vlad got cheated by bad scoring", then I really don't know what to tell you. This literally happened.

Aaron Cook's claim to fame is a fluke knockout of Steven Lopez. I really can not be the only person who watch everything that happened before the knockout. Cook was probably having his worst fight in 2 years up until that point. Then after trying the same falling double half a dozen times, he finally got lucky and landed one.

Diana is a different story. Nia honestly should have won that fight. Not because, as I keep hearing claimed, that Nia was the obvious victor who clearly dominated her. But because Diana should have taken penalties for falling down too often. Neither one of them landed anything at all.

On a side note to the Nia vs Diana. Where were all these points Nia landed? I didn't see them. Im sure this is related to the complaints about the LaJust body protectors. Its my personal opinion that people complain about these because they have been throwing p*ss-poor technique all these years and getting awarded points for stuff that should have never scored in the first place. Now that more accurate scoring methods are in use, and they aren't getting the free points for hip and butt kicks they got in the past, its time to complain how unfair it is. This also explains the Nia vs Diana fight, were people are trying to say the stuff Nia was trowing should have been awarded with points. I don't think so.

On to the issue of Mark vs Chris Martinez in the 2008 Olympic team trials. This is another ridiculous claim I keep hearing that Chris somehow threw the fight. Did you watch the fight? 2 out of the 3 points Mark scored were when he took advantage of Chris distracting himself by tugging on the back of his uniform. The same thing that nearly cost in in the 2009 team trials qualifier in his match against Terrence Jennings. Unless you are making the even more absurd claim that Chris purposely went down 5-0 only to make that spectacular comeback in the last 10 seconds.

They didn't pick Lambdin's division because nobody in Lambdin's division has done anything. When is the last time Lambdin won a world championship? Pan Am games? World Cup?

So you guys keep talking about your level playing field and all that. Maybe if you keep training hard you will one day realize that the Lopez guys keep winning because they are honestly a level above most everyone else. You keep up that pipe-dream that one of your underdog heros will win it all one of these days when the judging is "fair".

 

[terryl965]

texkwondo it is nice to see someone being bias about this converstation, to bad it is not you. I find it funny that people sign on and give no personal info. so people can know who they are talking to. Let me ask you this are you in Sugarland or Houston, which camp are you out of? I only ask because I do not see things they way you do, Mark is a great sparrer not fighter we do not fight we spar. Dianna I love and admire her and she is the nicest person in the world, she has always been respectful to all my players at every event. Jean has help coachmy sons a time or two at different events in the past.

I see the Lopez as a great group of people but I also see them getting some favorite things thrown at them, does it brother me no not really but in the sake of fair play we all should be on equal ground at any event and let the best person that day win not the best person for that match. I believe a true point system with five great qualifiers will help bring the cream to the top every year and maybe know the USAT is working that way with this new syatem.

Lastly if you do not want people to know you you can PM me your info. I know all the Lopezs and se them on a regular basis.

 

[texkwondo]

Let me ask you this are you in Sugarland or Houston, which camp are you out of?

Irrelevant, I do not let my associations influence my objectivity.

Mark is a great sparrer not fighter we do not fight we spar.

I don't see why this matters. You can call it what you will.

Dianna I love and admire her and she is the nicest person in the world, she has always been respectful to all my players at every event. Jean has help coachmy sons a time or two at different events in the past.

Yes, they are nice if you meet them. But you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.

I see the Lopez as a great group of people but I also see them getting some favorite things thrown at them, does it brother me no not really but in the sake of fair play we all should be on equal ground at any event and let the best person that day win not the best person for that match. I believe a true point system with five great qualifiers will help bring the cream to the top every year and maybe know the USAT is working that way with this new syatem.

What favors are these? Can you point out some specifics? I have yet to see these mythical matches were one of the Lopezs stole a win at team trials because of favors. Its always the same talk about Vlad, and Jason Han before him, and some of the new guys now; How the system is keeping them down. But every single time they step in the ring, the Lopezs make them look like complete amateurs.

 

[mango.man]

I look forward to seeing the results this weekend with the Lopez's (and everyone else) fighting with EBPs reducing (not eliminating) judge bias.