At what point would you be forced to fight?

[Tony]

It's really hard to say,I've been ready to fight on several occasions,which my willingness to fight defused the situations.The last real fight I was in was in 1994 and that was defending a freind who had been attacked by a much bigger guy.

Wow Gary

What happened? I have a friend who will get into fights over the most minor of things and so me and my other friend have managed to talk him out of it!
Why was your friend attacked? Good for you, defending your friend! i hope I show the same courage if one of my friends is being attacked!

 

[Gary Crawford]

Wow Gary

What happened? I have a friend who will get into fights over the most minor of things and so me and my other friend have managed to talk him out of it!
Why was your friend attacked? Good for you, defending your friend! i hope I show the same courage if one of my friends is being attacked!

I worked selling cars with my freind who had beem married to a girl for about six monthes who had been married before and had a two yr old son with her first husband.Her ex showed no interest in her or her son until my freind Randy married her,then her ex was at his house all the time.Randy trusted his wife and made the best of it,after all it was the guys son.After a few months of this,Randy told me the guy expressed interest in getting his wife back.Randy finally put his foot down and told his wife that all future visitaions would not be in his house.The day his wife was supposed to "have a talk with her ex" was the day it happened.All this information was given to me by Randy and I had never seen this guy before.We were out in front of the dealership waiting to see who might drive onto the lot interested in buying something(we call that waiting for "ups")Randy was inside at his desk talking on the phone,when an old Toyota p/u pulled in and by the way he was driving and the look on his face,we all thought he was a "pissed off customer" which we wanted nothing to do with.The guy went inside and went straight for Randy and got right in his face waiving his finger.Right then,I knew who he was and went up to my managers desk and said "call the police!There's a guy threatening Randy!"I turned my head back right when this jerk coldcocked Randy,I ran through two visiting bank officers to get to him,a couple other salesmen were trying to restrain him,I knew they didn't have him under control and were loosing what grip they had when I said "Let him Go!" I hit him with a fast front snap kick to the belly and followed with two really hard side kicks to his ribs which bent him over in pain.I stopped my attack to hear him say"(coughing) I'll get you!That didn't hurt,I know where you live!" I just motioned to him with my hands(saying nothing) to invite him back to fighting as he retreated.The rest of the day went really well for the dealership,we actually got fired up over it enough to sell lots of vehicles!Courage?NAW I didn't have time to think or be scared.

 

[Tony]

I worked selling cars with my freind who had beem married to a girl for about six monthes who had been married before and had a two yr old son with her first husband.Her ex showed no interest in her or her son until my freind Randy married her,then her ex was at his house all the time.Randy trusted his wife and made the best of it,after all it was the guys son.After a few months of this,Randy told me the guy expressed interest in getting his wife back.Randy finally put his foot down and told his wife that all future visitaions would not be in his house.The day his wife was supposed to "have a talk with her ex" was the day it happened.All this information was given to me by Randy and I had never seen this guy before.We were out in front of the dealership waiting to see who might drive onto the lot interested in buying something(we call that waiting for "ups")Randy was inside at his desk talking on the phone,when an old Toyota p/u pulled in and by the way he was driving and the look on his face,we all thought he was a "pissed off customer" which we wanted nothing to do with.The guy went inside and went straight for Randy and got right in his face waiving his finger.Right then,I knew who he was and went up to my managers desk and said "call the police!There's a guy threatening Randy!"I turned my head back right when this jerk coldcocked Randy,I ran through two visiting bank officers to get to him,a couple other salesmen were trying to restrain him,I knew they didn't have him under control and were loosing what grip they had when I said "Let him Go!" I hit him with a fast front snap kick to the belly and followed with two really hard side kicks to his ribs which bent him over in pain.I stopped my attack to hear him say"(coughing) I'll get you!That didn't hurt,I know where you live!" I just motioned to him with my hands(saying nothing) to invite him back to fighting as he retreated.The rest of the day went really well for the dealership,we actually got fired up over it enough to sell lots of vehicles!Courage?NAW I didn't have time to think or be scared.

Hi Gary

Thats amazing! you were prepared to defend your friend! If that guy has any sense he will stay away! I don't know how I would have reacted if that had been one of my friends in a similar situation! I do recall an incident in a pub over some silly misunderstandng with some guy. I was with my female friends and he got very abusive saying we were being rude to him! What had happened was one of my friends accidentally knocked his jacket off! My friend apologised, but then another one of my friends who has a bit of a mouth on her started to laugh, silly really! He challenged us and I was rather puzzled because I was just sitting there looking down wanting the situation to be over with! To be honest I was scared and I had been training in Kung Fu for maybe just over a year! But I still felt afraid and ashamed for not defending my friends. But this situation did not warrant any physical response but I stayed quiet and did not assert myself! So I admire you actions, I just hope I am able to react similarly if I have to!

 

[Gary Crawford]

Hi Gary

Thats amazing! you were prepared to defend your friend! If that guy has any sense he will stay away! I don't know how I would have reacted if that had been one of my friends in a similar situation! I do recall an incident in a pub over some silly misunderstandng with some guy. I was with my female friends and he got very abusive saying we were being rude to him! What had happened was one of my friends accidentally knocked his jacket off! My friend apologised, but then another one of my friends who has a bit of a mouth on her started to laugh, silly really! He challenged us and I was rather puzzled because I was just sitting there looking down wanting the situation to be over with! To be honest I was scared and I had been training in Kung Fu for maybe just over a year! But I still felt afraid and ashamed for not defending my friends. But this situation did not warrant any physical response but I stayed quiet and did not assert myself! So I admire you actions, I just hope I am able to react similarly if I have to!

No need to admire my actions,you or anybody else even with out martial art training will come to the rescue when the fight has already started especially when you have numbers to back you.In a situation like you discribed,I have been there too.Being scared is what nobody wants to admit,but WILL overcome you!That pure FEAR like in the previous thread is what ALL of us no matter how much experience we have have to face.The longer you are aware of the threat,the harder it is to overcome.Ask anyone who has survived a horrible car accident how scared they were during the accident,most will answer-"not at all until afterwards when I realized what just happened!"When things happen "suddenly" Time nearly stands still when in reality it happens in just an instant.That's why training to react is always best.The more we train to react,the less chance we will freeze.Well nobody really ever freezez when things happen suddenly,people just do what they are trained to do the most in that instant.When you are in a situation that things don't just happen and the threat seems to grow in intimidation,that's when you need to use your difusing skills as best you can,that's where "salesmanship" comes in.That's where you need to be convincing that the problem can be resolved and your "ego" needs to take a backseat.I would rather loose face and resolve any confrontation than have to fight someone.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

I'm not really one to attack people for saying things to me. I usually ignore comments. I don't really have a short fuse. I may get mad about something, but I usually just let it go in no time. I'm one to walk away and the times I've been wanting to fight, I defused that will to fight very quickly.

I will only get violent when another person gets violent. Other than that, I won't fight. If someone intends to hurt a love one, then I will do whatever it takes to make sure they don't get the chance. And if they have already started, well, It's not going to be pretty.

 

[Shotochem]

At risk of this being construed as overly aggressive...Put your hands on me with intent and all bets are off. Even look like you intend to harm my kids, wife, mother, or brother and I'll be in your face before you can blink. Or maybe I'd just let my dog growl at you and see if you want to continue.
Mike

My sentiments exactly.


However, my main objective is to never let a situation escalate to that level. In most cases the clear headed rational person would be able to step back and take control of the situation. If it gets out of control, there is no choice but to physically remove the threat. The key word you spoke was "intent". If I feel seriously threatened
I would without remorse attack first. I am not so arrogant as to think Im good enough to wait for every attack and then offer a counter.

I really do not wish to find out......

 

[7starmantis]

Yes, I must say that once one hand is laid on me, the line is crossed. Protecting myself starts when a hand is lain on me. At the first moment the attacker, or would be attacker touches you, you must react, otherwise you are ignoring your training and allowing the upper hand to your attacker.

7sm

 

[loki09789]

My sentiments exactly.


However, my main objective is to never let a situation escalate to that level. In most cases the clear headed rational person would be able to step back and take control of the situation. If it gets out of control, there is no choice but to physically remove the threat. The key word you spoke was "intent". If I feel seriously threatened
I would without remorse attack first. I am not so arrogant as to think Im good enough to wait for every attack and then offer a counter.

I really do not wish to find out......

I would agree with the spirit of this post Shotochem, up to the idea of controlling the situation. I can control myself through training and awareness, but I can only influence and read/react to a situation. I can't control what will or is happening for the other person. Honestly, I might not even be able to fathom what the other person/people are experiencing well enough to manipulate or fool them very well.

In any given situation, everyday or extreme, I am only truly in control of myself - if I choose to be.

 

[7starmantis]

I would agree with the spirit of this post Shotochem, up to the idea of controlling the situation. I can control myself through training and awareness, but I can only influence and read/react to a situation. I can't control what will or is happening for the other person. Honestly, I might not even be able to fathom what the other person/people are experiencing well enough to manipulate or fool them very well.

In any given situation, everyday or extreme, I am only truly in control of myself - if I choose to be.

I don't agree, I think controlling a situation is what we spend millions on teaching our LEO's and security personel. I think it involves alot of "what if" 's but control can be achieved. Total control? Can you actually obtain total control over anything including yourself? Thats another topic all-together, but controling a situation is possible, just takes training and willingness to bend to the needs of the situation.

7sm

 

[Tony]

I would like to think I could defend myself if I was attacked and make the attcker or attackers look worse than me! And I hope I have the courage of my convictions to defend those I love and friends but not those friends who pick fights or who are too stupid to walk away. How can anyone possiby justify helping another person attack another person. That is very dishonourable, unless outnumbered.
I would certainly like to be able to restrain a potential attacker or person willing to fight me, just so that we could both walk away unhurt.
Many times I have avoided conflict just by backing down, " no I'm not looking for trouble"! For the Police, they are trained in restraining techniques and always have their batons and pepper spray to fall back on, as well as the handcuffs.

 

[loki09789]

I don't agree, I think controlling a situation is what we spend millions on teaching our LEO's and security personel. I think it involves alot of "what if" 's but control can be achieved. Total control? Can you actually obtain total control over anything including yourself? Thats another topic all-together, but controling a situation is possible, just takes training and willingness to bend to the needs of the situation.

7sm

Notice I use the terms influence and manipulate as alternatives to control. This is a strange turn from an earlier post about how you could not control when you were carjacked ( I hope you were the one who posted that comment in a past thread, if not, sorry.)

 

[7starmantis]

This is a strange turn from an earlier post about how you could not control when you were carjacked ( I hope you were the one who posted that comment in a past thread, if not, sorry.)

Well, I'm not sure if that was me, I've never been carjacked, but I was attacked in my car once. Either way, allow me to clarify what I am saying. My last post said that I believe there is no way to completely control a situation. In my situation I was able to control the situation to a degree and protect my self and end the confrontation. I was not able to control wether they attacked me, thats true, but controling the situation is subjective to what is going on in the situation. Controling the attacker, no. Controlling the situation, yes, very possible.

7sm

 

[loki09789]

Controlling the situation, yes, very possible.
7sm

The attacker is a factor in the situation, just like the weather, time of day, terrain, ... Since I have very little or absolutely no control of most of these factors, I use terms like influence or manipulate because they connote 'limited control.'

If you are talking about control and you are saying that you can 'no way' control the attacker, you can not control the situation, at least the way I am looking at it. Now, you did/can 'influence' your attacker with either body language, verbal language, or straight out beating on him until it isn't fun anymore , but I wouldn't call that controlling him either.

 

[7starmantis]

I can see your point, I think we are basically meaning the same thing. We just got caught in semantics, thats all. I got what your saying now.

7sm

 

[loki09789]

7 *

Agreed, I notice that we end up on basically the same page a lot, just get there through different doors , like on the body conditioning issue as well.

 

[7starmantis]

Heh, yeah its hard over this medium to get what someon means. I don't express myself very well through typing either I'm afraid.


7sm

 

[OC Kid]

Hi guys Im new here so Please excuse my barging in and babbling like this.

Self defense hmmm tough one. I started training my son who is 10 after he asked me to because some older bullies on his soccer team were grabbing him and threatening to to kick his A@@. I started his training with a "Karate is for defense only".

Well after about 6-7 months on one one training with me and him haveing constant trouble with these bullies, After I told the coaches a few times to no avail and after the bullies chased Johnny around the field after practice trying to beat him up. I told Johnny enough is enough. I went to the coach with Johnny and right in front of the bully told the coach that the talking is done and Johnny has my permission to mess this kid up. He shouldnt have to run from this bully and be afraid.

Well about 2 months later Johnnny was walking to soccer practice and the Bully and a pal started calling him names and threatening Johnny. Johnny ignored them and kept walking to practice. During the practice game the bullies kept trying to trip Johnny and bang him with cheap shots,
Finally one of the bullies came up from behind and tried to hit Johnny from behind , Johnny busted the kid up without the bully laying a hand on him and left the bully doubled over and crying.
The rest of his team saw this and now he has no more problems....

Now did the bullies quit their bullying..No!
They started on other kids I have 8 students including the coaches son ( my only students they are from disadvantaged /broken homes so I teach for free) from the team . Now my students have no more problems with any of them plus the added beneifits of confidence and self esteme.

 

[Tony]

Hi OC Kid

Well you should be very proud of your son for standing up for himself. When I was his age I would get into fights all the time but whenI got older I becamse more withdrawn and much more scared of authority figures,hence why I let the bullies always get the better of me! I wished not I had learned a Martial Art when I was younger to deal with them as well as improving my confidence.
Sometimes its hard to talk your way out of trouble whe the other person is determined to hurt you. I have been studying Kung fu now for 6 years and in all that time I have never had to use what I have learned. But I think thats partly because I stay away from all the areas where there is a risk of violence and I avoid physical and even verbal conflict at all times.
I have a friend who is very highly strung and does take offence to people staring at him the wong way. He has been involved in many fights and this was all before he started in taekwondo. Him studying Taekwondo I feel makes things worst as he does get over aggressive in his sparring.
Saturday night we were all out, walking back from a club to the car park, he noticed some guys he did not want to bump into and made me and my other friend wait until they had gone. There has been many occasions when he has nearly been in fights for the most trivial of reasons and even expected me and my friend to get involved when its totally unneccesary. Why should I defend someone who caused the problem in the first place when he could have walked away!
I would hope that if the situation presented itself I would be able to act.

 

[MichiganTKD]

When would I be forced to fight?

When someone lays a hand on me, my wife, or anyone I care about who cannot defend themselves. However, it also depends on the level of aggression. If it just some loudmouth or drunk, I will use enough force to get the point across that his actions are unacceptable. If he wants to go further, so be it.
A friend of mine used to go to bars with me and ask me if I wanted to get into a fight. He also trained with me. As far as I was concerned, if he got into a fight he helped start, he was on his own, unless it was obvious he was outnumbered or outsized. Or if the guy had a weapon.

 

[Han-Mi]

truthfully I used to be much more leniant to ignorant people than I am now. I used to actually allow them to try to hit me, and just block or dodge then leave. One day I was punched in the back of the head, I never wlked away from a fight again. However if there was a way out I took it. Then one day I tried to let an authority know of some troublesome bullies and I was kicked out of the building with the bullies. After that day I decided that I would not take guff off anyone. Now, I'm not talking a simple insult, but anyone in my face is disabled. Since I decided that, I haven't had many conflicts. I think that it is in the way I carry myself now.

My point is that If I feel threatened, slightly and for instant, I use a quick disabling technique. I try not to go into a full blown fight, too messy.