Are you really training for self defense?

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by KPM, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If nobody is attacking you, who are you going to defend against? If you are surrounding by many opponents, as long as you can protect your head and not been knocked out, you have chance to get away.
     
  2. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If you have used your "single leg" to take down 100 guys, the chance that you can use it to take down the 101 guy will be high. The number won't lie. In orde to get that number, you have to test your skill on the mat. You will need a sport environment for that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I didn’t say anything about not attacking. Blocking a punch isn’t important if you’re being tackled.
     
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Or at least a temporary competitive environment in the training hall.
     
  5. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Of course you also need the ability to

    - move your leading leg back fast.
    - not let your opponent to get to your side door (blind side).
     
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  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I just quote someone's opinion about SD in another forum which I agree with.

    Self defense is the biggest fallacy in MA. When someone says self defense my internal logic persona wants to scream: is that really what happens? Is that scenario realistic? So you believe that self defense means that someone is squaring up with you and throwing punches like that? Where's the truck running people down? Where's the acid attack defense? Why are you wasting time with that archaic weapon? Where's a practical gun or knife disarm? What about a machete attack on a bridge? What do you do in a random mass shooting? What if there's an armed burglar on a bus? What about the legal aftermath?
     
  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I am sure somebody somewhere has actual grounding in it. People do resolve conflicts and avoid being ambushed. They are just not generally martial arts instructors.
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Agreed, most MA instructors don’t have that grounding. That’s why I overview the info, rather than spending a lot of time on it. Can’t pressure test it, so the best I can do is give them some rational information to get them started.
     
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  9. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    I think that I have a realistic plan to defend myself, and that is tough to do as a 62 year old man. I intend to really get rough, and I mean that just like it sounds. I made a 3 foot and a 4 foot long walking stick, and I intend to break some bones. If I am attacked, I expect it to be by an animal, and I will return the favor.
    I have some training in TKD, but it is useless to me now, I am stiff and weak. So, I went to plan B, attack the attackers. Forgive me if I sound over-the-top.

    Before you genuflect and give me a sermon, I once knocked a guy out by using 3 fingers, to choke him out. I am just placing that into my equation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
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  10. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, some people like to believe that they have a monopoly on understanding how violence manifests. Wake up call: they don’t.

    What is described in this quote is not untrue, but is by no means the full extent of violence and potential self defense situations that people may encounter. In fact, I would argue that the need to defend against an acid attack, a machete attack on a bridge, a random mass shooting, or a truck running people down, is highly, highly unlikely in most parts of the world. Could it happen? Sure. Statistically, extremely unlikely. Time is better spend working on other things that are far more likely. And any quality martial arts training should result in some useful skills for such a more likely event. Nothing is perfect. But that doesn’t mean it is useless.

    The person quoted is missing a whole lot.
     
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  11. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    To Flying Crane:

    KUNG FU WANG SAID:
    I just quote someone's opinion about SD in another forum which I agree with.

    Self defense is the biggest fallacy in MA. When someone says self defense my internal logic persona wants to scream: is that really what happens? Is that scenario realistic? So you believe that self defense means that someone is squaring up with you and throwing punches like that? Where's the truck running people down? Where's the acid attack defense? Why are you wasting time with that archaic weapon? Where's a practical gun or knife disarm? What about a machete attack on a bridge? What do you do in a random mass shooting? What if there's an armed burglar on a bus? What about the legal aftermath?

    He has a valid point, what would I do if someone tried to run me down, or came at me with a machete? It is something that I have considered,, and it would be kill or be killed. Once the attack presented itself, I would shift posture, from happy go lucky, into kill or die. However unlikely it might be, is irrelevant; it can happen, it has happened before, so there is historic precedence. Whether to prepare for it, is an individual choice, I have chosen to prepare.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  12. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, I suspect you have misunderstood my message, so I will give it another go.

    Those extreme types of attacks as described have and do happen. I never denied it.

    However, they are extremely rare and unlikely. Nevertheless, you are welcome to consider them and prepare accordingly as you see fit.

    Another however: there are plenty of scenarios that are much more likely, for which people routinely prepare in martial arts. Contrary to the message of the individual quoted in the earlier post, one does not need to be preparing for the extreme but unlikely attacks that he described, in order to be training for self defense. Self defense is not only about those unlikely and extreme scenarios. Accepting his message is missing out on a whole lot of reality.

    In the end, we all choose the level of paranoia to which we subscribe.
     
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  13. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Agreed, just because I do not train for being tied to railroad tracks or dodging on coming trucks or planes crashing into buildings does not mean I do not train doe self-defense you absolutely cannot train for every possibility, because SD could also mean; How do I defend myself against a stock market crash, or if the housing market crashes, how do I defend myself against gas shortages or blizzards or tornados or car crashes....there are infinite possibilities and you cannot train for them all and there are things you simply cannot train for...even if you train for gun defense have you trained for a guy in body armor with high powered weapons......

    However all of this has lead me to here and I apologize, but I think the topic needs this

     
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  14. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    Extremely rare? Missing out on reality? Are you insane? Do you keep up with things in life?
    I suspect that you have never had to fend off 6 at a time, or had to dodge a car, that was trying to run you down. I have, and things like that are not as rare as an armchair general presumes them to be. Your response is typical of such warriors, soft talk, and no fight. My reality has been one where violence was used as a lever, by thugs.

    In closing, I am of the Bruce Lee line of thought, if it ain't good for fighting, dump it. You do not prove fighting ability by running away and hiding. Nor do you prove it by being foolhardy, there is a median, and I am close to that median. As far as what you have to say, I dismiss it as presumption. Can you make sense of what you see and read?
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    They are quite rare.

    Your response is needlessly antagonistic.
     
  16. BigMotor

    BigMotor Yellow Belt

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    Turn me in. My antagonism is due to having lived through a few deadly encounters; which you obviously have not had to deal with. And then you have the temerity to softly lecture me, having never done a thing martially, you lecture me on martial qualities. It is ridiculous.
     
  17. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I didn't lecture you. I was gently letting you know you were coming on very strong - more so than I assumed you intended.

    And you know nothing about what I have or have not done martially.
     
  19. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    sure you can. Go be a dink to random people and when they are about to hit you, try to talk your way out of it.

    *protip, at this point you might want so actual self defense skills(ie, being able to DEFEND YOURSELF from attacks) to fall back on, or you are liable to have a sore face or worse.
     
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  20. Martial D

    Martial D Master of Arts

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    As per the rest of this thread, it's getting pretty close to LARPing territory.

    Not just for self defense, but in ANY situation where you are threatened/scared/under duress, here is a little secret for you all;

    Those things you THINK you would do are rarely the things that will actually happen. Just lol at little old cane guy thinking he will break bones and choke people out. Just as likely you will freeze solid, or be quickly dispatched.
     

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