Are weapon forms still relevant today?

[Flying Crane]

To the OP: when the zombie apocalypse arrives (some may argue it's already here, just look around at all the people walking down the sidewalk with their eyes glued to their phones while they text, oblivious to traffic...) anyway, when the zombie apocalypse arrives, remember this: blades don't need reloading, and ammunition is heavy and runs out. Skill with a good sword will be an asset.

 

[JowGaWolf]

For example, one of our fundamental principles is that we strive to make a full body connection when delivering our techniques, and we have specific training methods to accomplish that. Weapons practice emphasizes this. If you lose that full body connection and simply muscle around the weapon, you will exhaust yourself. The weapon will not let you cheat on your technique. It's a reality check.

Excellent. This is so true. Anything that you've been cheating on, lazy with, or didn't condition for will come to light once a long weapon comes to play. There were examples of this in the the Bo weapon video. Another post had a video of a guy doing a form with double axes and you could tell that the connection wasn't there.

 

[Flying Crane]

Excellent. This is so true. Anything that you've been cheating on, lazy with, or didn't condition for will come to light once a long weapon comes to play. There were examples of this in the the Bo weapon video. Another post had a video of a guy doing a form with double axes and you could tell that the connection wasn't there.

Yeah i remember the axes, he lacked connection. And the heavier your training weapon, the more this is true. I have a pair of double dao, weighing in around 3 1/2 pounds each. That is a very very difficult set to work. I practice a lot of fundamentals with the weapons to develop the basics that come into play in the form, and to simply develop a baseline of necessary strength and conditioning needed to use the weapons.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To the OP: when the zombie apocalypse arrives (some may argue it's already here, just look around at all the people walking down the sidewalk with their eyes glued to their phones while they text, oblivious to traffic...) anyway, when the zombie apocalypse arrives, remember this: blades don't need reloading, and ammunition is heavy and runs out. Skill with a good sword will be an asset.

Zombie apocalypse = Martial weapon fun day lol.

Ironically, if a person was ever in a situation (in the wild away from civilization) where they had limited ammo, They would have to ration the bullets to make sure that they had enough to defend with and enough to hunt with. Eventually it will get to the point where the person would have to make a decision to used the bullets that were saved for a defensive moment or to learn how to get food without using the gun. My guess is that primitive weapons like swords, staff, spears bows and arows, and knifes (if they didn't have one to begin with) will start to have a significant value to help make the bullets last longer.

 

[Flying Crane]

Zombie apocalypse = Martial weapon fun day lol.

Ironically, if a person was ever in a situation (in the wild away from civilization) where they had limited ammo, They would have to ration the bullets to make sure that they had enough to defend with and enough to hunt with. Eventually it will get to the point where the person would have to make a decision to used the bullets that were saved for a defensive moment or to learn how to get food without using the gun. My guess is that primitive weapons like swords, staff, spears bows and arows, and knifes (if they didn't have one to begin with) will start to have a significant value to help make the bullets last longer.

Oh, I'm well supplied on that front. More swords, spears, staffs, knives, tomohawks, kukhri, and archery gear than I can use by myself. My friends all say that when the Z apocalypse happens, they are heading for my place. When I say I need to buy ammo, I usually mean a dozen arrows.

 

[Xue Sheng]

That reminds me... I need to buy ammo.... my arrows all need to be replaced....I also need shells for the 12 gauge

 

[Zeny]

So basically the benefits can be summed up as follows:

1) can help in empty hand training

2) can help in the event of a zombie apocalypse

That's not very encouraging guys!

 

[Xue Sheng]

So basically the benefits can be summed up as follows:

1) can help in empty hand training

2) can help in the event of a zombie apocalypse

That's not very encouraging guys!

1) is helpful and should be of interest
2) is a joke, sorry you missed that
3) you missed the bit about helping with strength, if you use real weapons, especially if you train the Dao.
4) you missed the part about extending energy/force too

And just in case no one has mentioned this yet, the Jian comes from the wrist, the Dao comes from the elbow

 

[Bill Mattocks]

So basically the benefits can be summed up as follows:

1) can help in empty hand training

2) can help in the event of a zombie apocalypse

That's not very encouraging guys!

If all weapons training did for me was help me to ground myself better, that would be enough to make me want to keep doing it. You have no idea how important it is to have a solid foundation. One might say 'not much' but I would say 'nearly everything'. From a solid base, everything can be accomplished.

 

[mograph]

4) you missed the part about extending energy/force too

Could you elaborate, XS?

 

[Flying Crane]

So basically the benefits can be summed up as follows:

1) can help in empty hand training

2) can help in the event of a zombie apocalypse

That's not very encouraging guys!

Xue and Bill hit the bullseye, and these notions can be expressed in different ways. Bills comment on grounding, yeah that especially.

Also, they are simply interesting, in my opinion. Not everyone has a sword or spear or axe or big knife of various sorts, AND knows how to actually handle them. I get a kick out of that.

 

[ChenAn]

I used to practice several kind of cold weapons used kettle-bells. It was all good as long as you do it constantly and continuously. Despite of all benefits what weapon seemed give at the time, the only thing I retain today is some technical skills. All physical things washed away as stop practicing weapons meticulously due to time constrains.
So yeas it kind of gives you some benefits, but I think weapons are greatly overrated. I'm not saying we should practice it, but be caution what to expect.

Depending on the taiji method you incorporate it is easy to get body mechanic wrong when practicing weapons while have false feeling of improve body development. So to me, unless body method is established in the bare-hand form there is no rush to jump to the weapon training. It will not extend or improve anything this way. It may just work opposite.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If all weapons training did for me was help me to ground myself better, that would be enough to make me want to keep doing it. You have no idea how important it is to have a solid foundation. One might say 'not much' but I would say 'nearly everything'. From a solid base, everything can be accomplished.

So basically the benefits can be summed up as follows:

1) can help in empty hand training

2) can help in the event of a zombie apocalypse

That's not very encouraging guys!

Well there is the extra benefit of actually knowing how to use the weapon, so if you happen to have that weapon on hand then you can use it defend yourself. The ultimate truth with any weapon is that it only works when you have it. This is even true for guns.
Here is an article about a guy who tried to defend himself with a staff like object. He swings it like a baseball bat fairly easily (you can stop the video at 12seconds to get the point). Based on the video it's clear that he didn't have any weapons training by how he was trying to attack the person. Even if I was in that situation, I would have taken up a defensive position and utilized jabs with the weapon to stop a charging person. The other issue about having a solid foundation is also shown in the video as the guy falls down while swinging the object. If you are in an area were there is anything similar to a staff and his hard enough to deal a few blows then you'll be able utilize staff skills. If you are anywhere with a blade or stabbing object then you'll be able to use your knife fighting skills. If you are in an area where you can pick up a chair to defend yourself, you'll probably have a better job with using the chair to defend yourself through your understanding of using weapons even if you have never used that weapon before.
Machete Attack Vs Staff like object

 

[Blindside]

To completely derail the topic. If actually learning to functionally use the weapon is a goal of the form. How often to Tai Chi practitioners actually train the swordsmanship against another practitioner?

 

[greytowhite]

Jeez... I dunno man. The only time I've ever used my CMA weapons stuff is against FMA and JMA guys.

 

[East Winds]

Of course, adding a tassel brings a whole new dimension to sword control and form.

Very best wishes
Alistair

 

[Blindside]

Jeez... I dunno man. The only time I've ever used my CMA weapons stuff is against FMA and JMA guys.

Doesn't that seem a bit odd if you are actually trying to learn how to use a weapon?

 

[ChenAn]

Of course, adding a tassel brings a whole new dimension to sword control and form.

Very best wishes
Alistair

If you blood dripping off your sword then yes a tassel bring the whole new dimension


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[greytowhite]

Doesn't that seem a bit odd if you are actually trying to learn how to use a weapon?

Mmm... well most if not all of my weapons fights have been with guys from FMA and JMA growing up. My aikido instructor was very insistent we learn the sword and staff. Angel Cabales and other big names in FMA were all through my hometown. Most of the internal Chinese martial artists I know aren't really fighters and have little interest in using their arts martially. Also the maxim, "A weapon is just an extension of the body" is pretty popular in the gong fu world so most people just work on forms or neigong. The FMA and JMA guys are usually a lot more willing to scrap and now I have some tactics they don't expect and some body methods they have a hard time countering. I find that "...actually trying to learn how to use a weapon" is best done with people actually willing to fight.