Are there any American knife fighting styles?

Discussion in 'Knife Arts' started by Leo89, Nov 15, 2016.

  1. Leo89

    Leo89 Yellow Belt

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    And more importantly, how would you practice/spar using a knife fighting system?

    I know there's eskrima (seems like everyone and their mother knows about it) but what little to now near non-existant training I had was with plastic bats.

    I guess what I'm asking is, are there any knife arts that focus on using pocket/combat knives?
     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    reality based self defence. is a sort of umbrella heading for guys who train in that direction. But they generally are doing a Philippino system of some sort.

    Otherwise you just get a training knife folder and try to shank each other with it.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Senior Master

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    There absolutely is training in using them, although I do not know of a specific system that focuses on it beyond RBSD. When I've trained in it, we use rubber knives or the like, but I have also heard of people who will coat a fake knife in something that will rub off when it makes contact, so that people have a realistic idea when disarming of what would have happened to them. I have no idea what they might use for that, but it's what I've heard...

    Also, this is not the answer you are looking for, but many native american tribes teach knife fighting, so those would be "american knife fighting styles" :D
     
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  4. MI_martialist

    MI_martialist Brown Belt

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    I am a little confused...will a knife perforate or sever differently depending on the style or will just perforate and sever? Concerning training with a pocket knife, why would it be any different than training with any knife? Of course, there are unique characteristics, but focus on the similarities first...after all, a "folder' is a "fixed blade" once the blade is locked open.
     
  5. Leo89

    Leo89 Yellow Belt

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    A lot of people carry pocket knives, so that's why I ask. Seems more practical than carrying around a machete.

    You can't really hide a machete in your pocket.
     
  6. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Black Belt

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    Not really. There are few that claim to have some sort of Native American fighting system, but closer examination shows that they are full of it. For example: Apache Knife Combat School-Nagondzoog

    We use rubber Boker training knives, but in the past I have used aluminum trainers as well.

    As for sparring, I have done it differently depending on where I was training, from using lipstick on the edges of the aluminum trainer with a white shirt so that you could see the marks, to using the rubber knives, which leave a red mark all by themselves if the shot is hard enough.
     
  7. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    Size of blade is relevant to techniques. Smaller blades work extremely well in bad breath distance, not so good at arms length. If your training starts with your blade in your hand, it is not being trained in a realistic manner. Practicing accessing your blade takes into consideration placement, opening techniques and whether you can open knife in an adrenalized state. You can't use a 3" blade as an effective "chopper" for lopping off limbs like you can a machete. But in a tangle, when you are chest to chest, much of the machetes advantage is lost as there is no room to swing. With a small blade, you have to take compression cuts into consideration for maximum damage, not a concern with a bolo.
    Although there are many similarities between any edged weapon and another, how it is best utilised is dependant on size and shape. In a kitchen, you wouldn't use a paring knife to carve a turkey, nor would you probably peel a potato with a cleaver.
     
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  8. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    For American systems of knife fighting, you could look at Bowie knives, but again that is a large blade that does not transfer well to smaller folders. Loo at the works of guys like James Keating, Ray Floro or Southnarc for using smaller blades.
     
  9. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    Or Keating for his big knife work with his bowie material.
     
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  10. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    Absolutely. He is also big on Kali, or at least was (he was one of the guys my Guro studied under.)

    As to the OP, I study FMA and for sparing we use pretty ridged plastic knives, for drills aluminum trainers and my Guro keeps talking about getting a couple of shock knives.

    The thing you run into with FMA is that there are so many styles that the weapons skills you will study can vary greatly.

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
     
  11. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    Thank you for pointing that out. I meant to say Keating for big blades, Ray Floro and Southnarc for small blades.
     
  12. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge Black Belt

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    You might check out MacYoung, if you're not familiar with him. Media and seminars, though if you happen to live near him, maybe there are other options.

    Marc "Animal" MacYoung on knife fighting

    As for sparring, I've done training with knives that had a felt-like surface that gets covered in either lipstick or chalk, so that you know if you got "cut" or not. There are also training knives that administer a low grade shock, which is probably good training, but ... I'll let you guys explore that one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  13. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    We just put the chalk on thick on the plastic lol. As for the shock knives my Guro keeps thinking about, they are 7,000 volts. I don't know if I would call that "low grade" ;)
     
  14. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge Black Belt

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    Not it!
     
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  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is amps that do the damage.

    It is the $400 that has detered me.
     
  16. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    AMOK Knife Fighting is an American knife fighting style. Tom Sotis is the founder.

    I like Nok trainers for practice/sparring. Been using them for thirteen years now, haven't needed to replace them. (just bought more because I like them)
     
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  17. Charlemagne

    Charlemagne Black Belt

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    Tom Sotis trained FMA from my understanding. Their newest website does not have his bio on it that I can tell, but i'm pretty sure it was on the old one.
     
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  18. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    Let's look at a taser. I am going to omit the muscular interference you get if you fire it from range with proper probe placement or if you do a "three point" contact (probes + drive stun at a different location), just a drive stun. Here is a video.



    Now you hear all about "50,000 volts" when it comes to tasers. That isn't actually the ride you take though. The 50,000 volts is simply the initial level of energy that is expended so the charge can arc a bit to still effect someone through baggy clothing and the like. The actual charge that effects the body, or causes the pain you see in the video via a drive stun is only 1,200 volts. So the knife actually delivers 6 times the voltage a taser does.

    Now of course the application is different but I needed to be taser to carry it and that 1200 volts is a SOB... No doubt about it.
     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    An electric fence is about 7,000
     
  20. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    And the point there is that you touch it and let go quick. Have an asshat with a shock knife and it's like the drive stun with a taser.
     

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