Are Standing Arm Break Unsportsmanlike in MMA?

[Anarax]

To bring further context and another example to the thread. Pedro Rizzo is a retired pro MMA fighter. His leg kicks were so powerful he left a permanent indentation in Randy Couture's femur. Should he be expected to not kick with full power in a pro bout because of the immense damage/trauma he'll inflict?

 

[Anarax]

Every time I train, I have the option of using techniques (or completing them) that would hurt people. I choose those that won't (or don't complete the ones that would). Just because there's an opportunity for it, that doesn't change the ethics. As I said before, that technique really doesn't have another option. It's a break. A kick to the head is intended to cause a concussion, and I'm not really okay with that, either, but it's generally accepted by competitors that a concussion is not unlikely. What the people involved consider okay is part of ethics.

I can understand if someone is personally against doing such techniques themselves. However, the ethical dynamic isn't exactly the same in real life vs professional bouts. How you conduct yourself outside the ring is important and is unfortunately the downfall of many amazing fighters. However, being ferocious in the ring within the confines of the rules isn't inherently unethical.

 

[Headhunter]

No hh. KO/TKO shots are thrown with those intentions, KO/TKO=Trauma. The Pros throw with immense power and they are aware of that.


Winning can be done by KO/TKO


They go in hoping to win and will do what's necessary to do so.


That's completely different. Football is won by scoring points with touchdowns and field goals. MMA matches can/are won by bearing your opponent via KO/TKO/Submission.

Have you ever actually fought in the ring....because funny you quote everything apart from the bit where I say I've fought numerous times and never tried to hurt anyone....funny that isn't it.....so have you ever fought? Or are you just talking a bunch of noncence to sound impressive....I'm betting on the second option

 

[Anarax]

Have you ever actually fought in the ring

Yes, I have. You need to look beyond yourself when discussing such topics though. Listen to the interviews of pro fighters and they'll tell you they go in looking to KO their opponent, many times they have or will deliver on that promise. Thus they verbally convey their intentions and physically convey it in the ring as well. These are veteran professional fighters, yet your advice based on your X amount of fights circumvents all of their advice?

Or are you just talking a bunch of noncence to sound impressive

You think I sound impressive? Thanks HH

.I'm betting on the second option

You seem to always default to insulting people when you can't articulate your thoughts. It gets boring after a while

 

[Tez3]

That's completely different. Football is won by scoring points with touchdowns and field goals

No, that's not football, that's the American version of rugby.

MMA matches can/are won by bearing your opponent via KO/TKO/Submission.

'Bearing' your opponent? that's not actually what they do and often matches are won by points.

They go in hoping to win and will do what's necessary to do so.

Only to a point, they aren't going to break someone's neck to win. You seem to want to make it sound as if we are in Roman times and back in the arena. MMA is exciting enough, varied enough and is finally starting to make it as a main stream sport, we don't need this rubbish. I've spent over 20 years now working towards this ( and the inclusion of women) and you want it to go back to being labelled cock fighting etc. Professional fighters don't want the reputation of being nasty, of breaking opponents, not necessarily for moral reasons but because no one will agree to fight them and they will be out of work. We don't want amateur fighters and youngsters emulating pro fighters in their bad habits.

 

[Headhunter]

No, that's not football, that's the American version of rugby.




'Bearing' your opponent? that's not actually what they do and often matches are won by points.




Only to a point, they aren't going to break someone's neck to win. You seem to want to make it sound as if we are in Roman times and back in the arena. MMA is exciting enough, varied enough and is finally starting to make it as a main stream sport, we don't need this rubbish. I've spent over 20 years now working towards this ( and the inclusion of women) and you want it to go back to being labelled cock fighting etc. Professional fighters don't want the reputation of being nasty, of breaking opponents, not necessarily for moral reasons but because no one will agree to fight them and they will be out of work. We don't want amateur fighters and youngsters emulating pro fighters in their bad habits.

Yep theres even a video of a guy who was easily beating up his opponent and the ref didnt stop it so he tapped. He chose to lose instead of hurting the guy

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think tez used to post a picture with an Harlan Ellison quote that I wish I could find right now. It seriously seems like you’re posting an opinion about something you’re wholly unfamiliar with. And why then would you say ,”nope,” when I asked if you were comparing your training to professional mma? That’s exactly what you’re doing and it’s incredibly naive.

No, I didn't compare my training to a professional MMA fight. That'd be odd, at best. I didn't even compare my training to MMA training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I can understand if someone is personally against doing such techniques themselves. However, the ethical dynamic isn't exactly the same in real life vs professional bouts. How you conduct yourself outside the ring is important and is unfortunately the downfall of many amazing fighters. However, being ferocious in the ring within the confines of the rules isn't inherently unethical.

I can see your point - as I said earlier, what participants agree is okay is part of the ethics.

I just don't see a good reason to significantly injure someone in the name of sport. And, as I said before, that's just me.

 

[Tez3]

I just don't see a good reason to significantly injure someone in the name of sport. And, as I said before, that's just me.

NO! It's not just you, the vast majority of MMA fighters I have ever worked with, trained with, reffed, cornered and judged feel exactly the same way. Yes you get into the ring/cage with the aim of winning, you know you will both take hits and give hits but you do not go in there with the intent to maim or damage significantly your opponent.

 

[jobo]

But when I did fight, I did try and kill the opponent within the rules of the sport. I tried to kill them when I kicked them in the head, I tried to break their leg when I kicked it, I tried to snap their neck when I slammed them... you can't read someone's intent, you have two people kicking the **** out of each other, what part of that includes not trying to hurt the other person? If I had the mindset of not hurting, that would have put ME in danger. Look at Mike Tyson, he repeatedly said he tried to kill his opponents. Should his punches be considered more barbaric and be illegal too?

Hang on straw man at play!!!!!!

Your clearly trying to cause pain and discomfort, but Are you really saying you'd be ok with the other guy bbc wing dead ? Coz that's a) immortal and b) murder if that was your intent,

Iron Mike , had a number of attributes that made him a good fighter and non that made him a good human being and he was a bit dim

 

[Steve]

Every time I train, I have the option of using techniques (or completing them) that would hurt people. I choose those that won't (or don't complete the ones that would). Just because there's an opportunity for it, that doesn't change the ethics. As I said before, that technique really doesn't have another option. It's a break. A kick to the head is intended to cause a concussion, and I'm not really okay with that, either, but it's generally accepted by competitors that a concussion is not unlikely. What the people involved consider okay is part of ethics.

what exactly does your training have to do with this conversation?

 

[Steve]

NO! It's not just you, the vast majority of MMA fighters I have ever worked with, trained with, reffed, cornered and judged feel exactly the same way. Yes you get into the ring/cage with the aim of winning, you know you will both take hits and give hits but you do not go in there with the intent to maim or damage significantly your opponent.

You do accept that it may happen, as with any contact sport. You also accept that it is more likely to happen if you aren’t well trained and don’t know when to submit or don’t want to submit. This is why rules tend to be more restrictive for amateurs and novices. At an elite level, athletes are expected to know when they are beaten, and are relied upon to submit when appropriate.

If you fight dirty, looking for eye pokes or fish hooks, that’s on you. If you hold onto chokes and submissions after the tap, that’s also on you. If I don’t tap and essentially invite injury, that’s on me.

 

[now disabled]

what exactly does your training have to do with this conversation?

He was talking ethics and well they do play a part in all things in life

 

[now disabled]

You do accept that it may happen, as with any contact sport. You also accept that it is more likely to happen if you aren’t well trained and don’t know when to submit or don’t want to submit. This is why rules tend to be more restrictive for amateurs and novices. At an elite level, athletes are expected to know when they are beaten, and are relied upon to submit when appropriate.

If you fight dirty, looking for eye pokes or fish hooks, that’s on you. If you hold onto chokes and submissions after the tap, that’s also on you. If I don’t tap and essentially invite injury, that’s on me.

Every time yo go into a dojo you could get hurt and you accept that so don't say that it purely a cage fight or whatever it is called situation and knowing when you beaten is a mind set as I have seen many people that are beat keep trying to stand up and go on.

 

[Steve]

He was talking ethics and well they do play a part in all things in life

Do they? What about context? Do you think context matters, in general and also specific to a discussion about ethics?

To clarify, it’s not a discussion about ethics I am questioning. Rather, it’s the muddling of disparate contexts. The ethics of training aikido as a middle aged, white collar worker are completely different than the ethics of a full time, elite level, professional combat athlete.

 

[now disabled]

Do they? What about context? Do you think context matters, in general and also specific to a discussion about ethics?

To clarify, it’s not a discussion about ethics I am questioning. Rather, it’s the muddling of disparate contexts.

Ok then I bow to your wisdom sir and will endeavour not to every post again on something unless it is in context

 

[Steve]

Every time yo go into a dojo you could get hurt and you accept that so don't say that it purely a cage fight or whatever it is called situation and knowing when you beaten is a mind set as I have seen many people that are beat keep trying to stand up and go on.

I love that scene in Cool Hand Luke.

 

[now disabled]

I love that scene in Cool Hand Luke.

Ok

 

[Steve]

Ok then I bow to your wisdom sir and will endeavour not to every post again on something unless it is in context

I think you should do what you want, post what you want, and you shouldn’t let a random dude in the internet discourage you.

 

[Steve]

Ok

Have you seen the movie? Truly a classic, and I believe Paul Newman’s second best ever.