Are competitive Sport Martial Artists superior?

[Hanzou]

are you saying a belief in chi balls is worse that flat earth,

No. However, since you asked the question, yes the belief in Chi Balls is worse than the belief in flat earth. Based on (ignorant) observation and a heavy belief in religious text, I can see how someone could believe in a flat earth.

You have to be a delusional clown to believe that this is real;

tell me about dillion, how he prospered and how that relates to me

I said it related to traditional martial arts. Where did I say it related to you?

 

[drop bear]

Yeah. Morality. A bully is a terrible martial artist compared to a kind-hearted newbie.

In EVERY arena of life, the criteria of ethics will always be there. I haven't discovered WHY, but it's always included.

How would we measure that?

 

[jobo]

No. However, since you asked the question, yes the belief in Chi Balls is worse than the belief in flat earth. Based on (ignorant) observation and a heavy belief in religious text, I can see how someone could believe in a flat earth.

You have to be a delusional clown to believe that this is real;

I said it related to traditional martial arts. Where did I say it related to you?

well i honestly think that is really strange,
you say religion is a justification for flat earth, were chi balks are similarly mixed up with mystic belifs, they are to all intents and purpises the same level of belief in mystical nonsense, just different mystic nonsence

you put dillion down as a " killer point and now seem reluctant to discuss him at all

it would seem to relate to me as you said i ( and all other tmaers)was delusional and used dillion to suppirt that pointl

please tell me how dillion prspeed in the tma community and how that rekates to me or any other tmaer on here

 

[Hanzou]

well i honestly think that is really strange,
you say religion is a justification for flat earth, were chi balks are similarly mixed up with mystic belifs, they are to all intents and purpises the same level of belief in mystical nonsense, just different mystic nonsence

Not really. Being a Christian or Jewish is a lot more important to someone's identity than rather or not they do Karate or Kung Fu. In fact, I would say you're making yet another false equivalance.

you put dillion down as a " killer point and now seem reluctant to discuss him at all

it would seem to relate to me as you said i ( and all other tmaers)was delusional and used dillion to suppirt that pointl

please tell me how dillion prspeed in the tma community and how that rekates to me or any other tmaer on here

I'm avoiding discussing him in depth because the last time I did I was accused of style basing and the thread got closed. You're free to look him up on your own. Just make sure you correctly spell his name, since I did so in an earlier post.

 

[Buka]

No, it is exactly because they are delusional and they don't recognize draw backs.

Do you think someone like George Dillman (who made people believe he could shoot spirit balls of ki from his hands and knock someone out from across the room) would be taken seriously in a MMA gym? He was taken quite seriously in a karate dojo. When you have that level of delusion, a person thinking that they can take an amateur or professional fighter with an eye poke is just a few dozen steps down the delusion ladder.

I certainly see your point, especially after finally having met Dillman in person, which is something I had always wanted to do. I found it very entertaining, very. That being said, Dillman would no sooner be able to hoodwink an MMA gym any more than he would be able to hoodwink any traditional TMA dojo that I ever was in, and I've been in a few.

But to give the man his due, he was not your average hoodwinker, man, that boy could talk like you read about. Personally, I believe him to be a reincarnate. Had to have been the most successful driver of them old timey traveling snake oil wagons the west had ever seen. Nobody could sell something with only one lifetime under their belt like Dillman could.

 

[drop bear]

@Hanzou There is spillover from sport to self-defense. But a lot of sport folk just assume they can use their sport training in any situation. That they'll just figure out how to deal with any differences in the actual engagement.

For example, I've had plenty of wrestlers or BJJ guys tell me that they would just use their wrestling or BJJ for knife defense. They wouldn't train it, but if someone attacked them with a knife that's what they'd do. Clinching up is great for stopping power punches from landing, but might make it easier for them to stab you repeatedly.

Same thing with eye gouges. A lot of MMA folk seem to think the only way of attacking someone's eyes is to throw a claw hand like a punch. It's not. I can attack your eyes any time my hands are near your head, because it doesn't require much force.

They also don't address things like awareness, deescalation, when to fight, what to do after the fight. Because in a sport match, there is no deescalation. You know who your opponent is. And after the fight, it's over.

These things can be covered by a sport art. But lots of sport artists tend to quickly dismiss any situation outside of their sport (or outside of MMA) as being impossible to train for, unlikely to happen, or something they can handle easily without having trained for it.

There are sports that do weapons though. Even sports that do knife disarms.

So I don't technically have to go from practical to theoretical just because I wanted to be more well rounded.

 

[Hanzou]

I certainly see your point, especially after finally having met Dillman in person, which is something I had always wanted to do. I found it very entertaining, very. That being said, Dillman would no sooner be able to hoodwink an MMA gym any more than he would be able to hoodwink any traditional TMA dojo that I ever was in, and I've been in a few.

Yeah, I definitely don't believe that he could thrive in ANY TMA dojo. There are plenty of TMA dojos out there that know their stuff and would promptly toss someone like Dillman out of there. My point is someone like Dillman tends to pop up more often in the TMA environment, because various forces are in play in that environment to allow that type of ridiculousness to bloom.

But to give the man his due, he was not your average hoodwinker, man, that boy could talk like you read about. Personally, I believe him to be a reincarnate. Had to have been the most successful driver of them old timey traveling snake oil wagons the west had ever seen. Nobody could sell something with only one lifetime under their belt like Dillman could.

Yes, give the man his due. It's no small feat to develop a form of mass delusion like he did.

 

[drop bear]

I think this thread is taking a turn. We've entered the stage of the thread where some folks start just writing fan fiction.

It is a very easy trap to fall in to.

 

[jobo]

Not really. Being a Christian or Jewish is a lot more important to someone's identity than rather or not they do Karate or Kung Fu. In fact, I would say you're making yet another false equivalance.



I'm avoiding discussing him in depth because the last time I did I was accused of style basing and the thread got closed. You're free to look him up on your own. Just make sure you correctly spell his name, since I did so in an earlier post.

your telling peopke what more imoirtant to their identity now, like you were telling people what their motives were earlier,

most main stream religions dont dubscribe to the flat earth, like most main stream tma dont subscribe to chi ball, there are a feew loonies that do, you wouldnt hopeful use that as an excuse to attack someones religion but you do to attack there tma.

jus

its hypocrisy, not false equivelance thats the issue here

 

[Hanzou]

your telling peopke what more imoirtant to their identity now, like you were telling people what their motives were earlier,

most main stream religions dont dubscribe to the flat earth, like most main stream tma dont subscribe to chi ball, there are a feew loonies that do, you wouldnt hopeful use that as an excuse to attack someones religion but you do to attack there tma.

jus

its hypocrisy, not false equivelance thats the issue here

I think you're missing the forest for the toothpick here Jobo. I've explained what I'm talking about multiple times. Buka just popped in and instantly knew what I was talking about, yet we've been going back and forth over multiple posts, and things are still flying over your head. I'm not sure I can help you out anymore than I have.

 

[Buka]

No. However, since you asked the question, yes the belief in Chi Balls is worse than the belief in flat earth. Based on (ignorant) observation and a heavy belief in religious text, I can see how someone could believe in a flat earth.

You have to be a delusional clown to believe that this is real;

I said it related to traditional martial arts. Where did I say it related to you?

Ah, but Hanzou, that is too very real. It demonstrates just what people will buy into when they need to be part of something. My question about that clip, and the many more like it, don't people, like family, friends ect ever see these things shorty after they're shared - and then go rescue the poor people shown there?

 

[jobo]

I think you're missing the forest for the toothpick here Jobo. I've explained what I'm talking about multiple times. Buka just popped in and instantly knew what I was talking about, yet we've been going back and forth over multiple posts, and things are still flying over your head. I'm not sure I can help you out anymore than I have.

nwell no, youve gone round in a circle avoiding everything

let try the begining again, why do you rhink im delusional for doing tma? that was your first point wasnt it ?

clearly as you dont want to talk abiyt dilman, you wont ve bringing that up again, that will save an awful lot of time

 

[Hanzou]

nwell no, youve gone round in a circle avoiding everything

let try the begining again, why do you rhink im delusional for doing tma? that was your first point wasnt it ?

Uh, nope.

clearly as you dont want to talk abiyt dilman, you wont ve bringing that up again, that will save an awful lot of time

Like I said, if you want to read about him, its all over the web.

 

[drop bear]

Ah, but Hanzou, that is too very real. It demonstrates just what people will buy into when they need to be part of something. My question about that clip, and the many more like it, don't people, like family, friends ect ever see these things shorty after they're shared - and then go rescue the poor people shown there?

I assume their friends buy in. I mean then it is someone you know and trust saying "yeah man magic chi balls"

 

[Buka]

I assume their friends buy in. I mean then it is someone you know and trust saying "yeah man magic chi balls"

Yeah. Maybe it's the window dressing they use. Getting back to Dillman for a second, the man knows anatomy quite well. Even if someone else doesn't, they can tell that he does. And, again, he has that gift of gab - especially to a receptive audience. I guess BS-ing potential people to buy into that stuff is in the presentation.

Whacky how some people buy into really crazy things.

 

[skribs]

Yes, attempting to poke out someone's eyes to get out of a hold is vastly inferior to actually learning how to escape a hold and actually putting yourself in a position to counter.

Crazy right?

In the moment? It's less crazy to go for a vulnerable target than to learn. Are you saying it wouldn't work? I'd consider it high-percentage, based on what I've seen of eye pokes in the UFC. Most people collapse their structure completely and go straight to damage assessment when their eyes are harmed.

Are you prepared for your opponent do do something like that? How would you protect your eyes in that situation?

It's easier to just say "BJJ is better than an eyepoke." Then you dismiss it. Then you have no idea how it works. It's the same as someone who says BJJ is stupid because you shouldn't go to the ground anyway. Anyone who's ever been taken down knows how stuoid that suggestion is.

 

[Hanzou]

In the moment? It's less crazy to go for a vulnerable target than to learn. Are you saying it wouldn't work? I'd consider it high-percentage, based on what I've seen of eye pokes in the UFC. Most people collapse their structure completely and go straight to damage assessment when their eyes are harmed.

Because it’s illegal in MMA and an eye poke can make the person who threw it lose points. It’s just like a foul in Basketball or Soccer. When it happens, the person the foul happens to makes sure the refs see it.

Are you prepared for your opponent do do something like that? How would you protect your eyes in that situation?

It's easier to just say "BJJ is better than an eyepoke." Then you dismiss it. Then you have no idea how it works. It's the same as someone who says BJJ is stupid because you shouldn't go to the ground anyway. Anyone who's ever been taken down knows how stuoid that suggestion is.

I hope this helps.

 

[skribs]

Because it’s illegal in MMA and an eye poke can make the person who threw it lose points. It’s just like a foul in Basketball or Soccer. When it happens, the person the foul happens to makes sure the refs see it.

I hope this helps.

The posture of the person on the bottom shows he's clearly not trying. He's moving his arms, but that's it.

He's only trying when in positions. You don't see transitions that might leave vulnerabilities.

There were a few of those positions where he could have easily gone for a poke with his toes. (Toenails are often more neglected than fingernails.) Did he not think of that?

This video shows me nothing to prove your point.

 

[dvcochran]

Not really unless you are comparing 2 systems that are pretty much on par with each other.

And sport systems are just easier to gauge if they work because it is obvious when they don't.

It isn't obvious when self defence doesn't work.

Because this.

"Have I tried to close in on boxers? No. This is just supposition (although something that would be fun to test if I had time and knew a boxer)."

You can argue 'when self defense doesn't work in class practice'. Hard to argue when it works in the real world.
That is where the repetition comes in, regardless of style or system.

 

[dvcochran]

The posture of the person on the bottom shows he's clearly not trying. He's moving his arms, but that's it.

He's only trying when in positions. You don't see transitions that might leave vulnerabilities.

There were a few of those positions where he could have easily gone for a poke with his toes. (Toenails are often more neglected than fingernails.) Did he not think of that?

This video shows me nothing to prove your point.

You have to admit, that was hilarious.