Another wake up for Chinese Martial Arts

[Martial D]

As close as MMA comes to a real fight, there is still a gap. MMA doesn't train you to fight multiple opponents, or getting jumped on from behind, or being faced with weapons. You think someone on the street isn't going to kick you in the balls or gouge your eyes just because you're an MMA fighter? You think they aren't going to kick your head in when you're on the ground?

They train to that specific sort of fighting, yes, but the overlap is huge.

Anyway, if you think any system is going to realistically prepare you for armed/multiple opponents, you should probably rethink that before it gets you hurt or killed. The only solution to those two situations is either gun-fu or run-fu.

 

[jobo]

The proof is that people without fighting experience always lose against those that do have it. I don't care how many years someone has been perfecting their forms or kata, they won't know a thing about fighting if they've never been in that situation.

There are a lot of factors to deal with. Fear, adrenaline, apprehension, pain, knowing how to feint, how and when to land those strikes you have been practicing so dillegently against someone that is doing literally everything they can to stop you..Just a few off the top of my head.

If you believe you are trained to fight but have never actually used it in hard sparring or a fight, you are actually more vulnerable to the world than if you have never trained at all.

well that's not true either, unless you can actually prove that people who have never had a fight before all way loosecto those that have. I won my very first fight against an experienced fighter, I was 7 and he had beaten up every other kid in the class, before he started on me

 

[Midnight-shadow]

They train to that specific sort of fighting, yes, but the overlap is huge.

Anyway, if you think any system is going to realistically prepare you for armed/multiple opponents, you should probably rethink that before it gets you hurt or killed. The only solution to those two situations is either gun-fu or run-fu.

That's exactly what you were implying when you said that MMA prepares you for "real world" fighting, unless I completely misread what you put.

 

[Martial D]

All I can say is that if you have beliefs you haven't tested, especially as it regards your personal safety, you also have an exploitable weakness, and perhaps..as 'Master Wong' might say - "Beeg Problem" in the future.

 

[drop bear]

you don't have to do full contact, but the contact has to be enough where strikes can be interrupted. A tap on my head will not prevent my strike from landing. However a good kick to my head will. The solution is more about intensity of the contact. It has to be hard enough to affect your opponent but not so hard where doctor visits are needed.

There are elements that are missed if you don't train full contact though. Energy management is one (although you could swap that for wrestling)

Learning to punch hard with timing is one.

The balance changes a bit.

And some techniques are better full contact. Like head kicks which are pretty useless if you can brush them off with one hand. But pretty good if they put the guy in danger of a broken skull.

 

[Martial D]

That's exactly what you were implying when you said that MMA prepares you for "real world" fighting, unless I completely misread what you put.

Mma training prepares you for mma, which is a pretty close aproximation of 1 v 1 fighting, and I dare say prepares you for your multiple/armed scenario as much as anything else will, aside from maybe a firearms course.

Now this isn't because those systems..mostly mt boxing and BJJ are the only viable systems..because I don't believe that at all. It's because they train for the job they intend to do.

 

[drop bear]

That's exactly what you were implying when you said that MMA prepares you for "real world" fighting, unless I completely misread what you put.

No. That is an implication made by people who have never been gang bashed.

There is no training that will make it safe to go up against a bunch of guys.

 

[Steve]

Mma training prepares you for mma, which is a pretty close aproximation of 1 v 1 fighting, and I dare say prepares you for your multiple/armed scenario as much as anything else will, aside from maybe a firearms course.

Now this isn't because those systems..mostly mt boxing and BJJ are the only viable systems..because I don't believe that at all. It's because they train for the job they intend to do.

I think this is a pretty solid summation. I appreciate that you acknowledge what MMA is and isn't. What it does teach and where it stops. Both are very important things to know.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

No. That is an implication made by people who have never been gang bashed.

There is no training that will make it safe to go up against a bunch of guys.

And this is precisely the problem. A lot of people seem to have to impression that training for MMA ring fights is the same as preparing for "real world" fighting when this is far from the truth. I always find it amusing whenever someone says things like "x isn't real, they should do MMA instead" as if MMA is a true example of "real world" fighting.

Who's more delusional in all of this? The TMA practitioners who think that waving their arms around constitutes fighting, or the MMA guys who think they can take on the world just because they won a fight 1v1 where there were rules and a referee in place?

 

[jobo]

All I can say is that if you have beliefs you haven't tested, especially as it regards your personal safety, you also have an exploitable weakness, and perhaps..as 'Master Wong' might say - "Beeg Problem" in the future.

if you were putting forward an argument that a good level mma fighter would beat most other martial artist, you may have a point, but your stance that other martial are useless against attack is something of a mute point, it rather depends who is attacking you, how big strong they are and if they have friends and how drunk anyone is

 

[Steve]

And this is precisely the problem. A lot of people seem to have to impression that training for MMA ring fights is the same as preparing for "real world" fighting when this is far from the truth. I always find it amusing whenever someone says things like "x isn't real, they should do MMA instead" as if MMA is a true example of "real world" fighting.

Who's more delusional in all of this? The TMA practitioners who think that waving their arms around constitutes fighting, or the MMA guys who think they can take on the world just because they won a fight 1v1 where there were rules and a referee in place?

It's a moment of clarity when folks realize that none of it is "real." It's all different pieces of a giant puzzle working from the edges to the middle. Cops have a piece. Bouncers have a piece. MMAists have a piece. Some pieces are larger than others, but no one has it all. And if someone claims to, run away very quickly.

It's just as amusing to me when people say they teach real world self defense because it (whatever "it" is) works for cops.

 

[Martial D]

but your stance that other martial are useless against attack

Who's stance? I said no such thing. In fact, I explicitly stated that I do not believe that.

Come again?

 

[jobo]

Mma training prepares you for mma, which is a pretty close aproximation of 1 v 1 fighting, and I dare say prepares you for your multiple/armed scenario as much as anything else will, aside from maybe a firearms course.

Now this isn't because those systems..mostly mt boxing and BJJ are the only viable systems..because I don't believe that at all. It's because they train for the job they intend to do.

real world fights, really, do you train fighting with broken bottles. Most of my real world fights have involved one or both having an improvised weapon, I like to see you take someone to the floor whilst your having your spine lacerated

 

[jobo]

Who's stance? I said no such thing. In fact, I explicitly stated that I do not believe that.

Come again?

ok arts that don't do live fighting are useless, that is your point isn't it. If not then I have no idea what you are tattling on about

 

[Martial D]

real world fights, really, do you train fighting with broken bottles. Most of my real world fights have involved one or both having an improvised weapon, I like to see you take someone to the floor whilst your having your spine lacerated

This isn't a good argument though. Introduce weapons, all things being equal, the guy with viable training still wins.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

It's a moment of clarity when folks realize that none of it is "real." It's all different pieces of a giant puzzle working from the edges to the middle. Cops have a piece. Bouncers have a piece. MMAists have a piece. Some pieces are larger than others, but no one has it all. And if someone claims to, run away very quickly.

It's just as amusing to me when people say they teach real world self defense because it (whatever "it" is) works for cops.

It's amazing how people's perceptions change when faced with the real thing as opposed to training or a simulation. As a lifeguard I have to do monthly training to keep my skills up to scratch, and I train with a lot of other people, many of whom have never had to use their skills in a real situation before. There was 1 person in particular who was very confident in their abilities, and excelled in training. Then 1 day we had a real incident where a young girl swam out of her depth and couldn't stay afloat. The confident lifeguard jumped in to save them, and got smacked in the face for their trouble while trying to save this kid. It was quite the reality check for them let me tell you and from then on they made sure to pay more attention during the training sessions.

 

[Martial D]

ok arts that don't do live fighting are useless, that is your point isn't it. If not then I have no idea what you are tattling on about

I said schools, not arts. While not all arts, or styles, are equally viable, more important is how they are trained.

 

[drop bear]

And this is precisely the problem. A lot of people seem to have to impression that training for MMA ring fights is the same as preparing for "real world" fighting when this is far from the truth. I always find it amusing whenever someone says things like "x isn't real, they should do MMA instead" as if MMA is a true example of "real world" fighting.

Who's more delusional in all of this? The TMA practitioners who think that waving their arms around constitutes fighting, or the MMA guys who think they can take on the world just because they won a fight 1v1 where there were rules and a referee in place?

The guy who actually fought someone. MMA is training for the real world to the level you can realistically expect one person to achieve.

The fantasy is the expectation that training for the real world includes training to handle 5 guys.

Why would you think any training should be expected to handle that?

 

[drop bear]

real world fights, really, do you train fighting with broken bottles. Most of my real world fights have involved one or both having an improvised weapon, I like to see you take someone to the floor whilst your having your spine lacerated

Pretty sure having your spine lacerated is a counter to most defensive techniques up to and including shooting people.

 

[jobo]

This isn't a good argument though. Introduce weapons, all things being equal, the guy with viable training still wins.

its a good argument round here, because its like that. Real world fight have weapons,