another teaching question

[KempoGuy06]

Ok so I had the thread about advice for teaching and teaching kids in particular. well it got me thinking of a little problem ive been battling for the past couple of weeks.

I have a couple female friends who have been in some bad situations. They came out unscathed usually to quick thinking or the help of a passerby.

My question is, and it might be stupid, but would it be ok to show them stuff to arm themselves against attackers or would i need to ask my instructor first? Im not going to train them in any formal way, just show them basic self defense.

B

 

[MJS]

Ok so I had the thread about advice for teaching and teaching kids in particular. well it got me thinking of a little problem ive been battling for the past couple of weeks.

I have a couple female friends who have been in some bad situations. They came out unscathed usually to quick thinking or the help of a passerby.

My question is, and it might be stupid, but would it be ok to show them stuff to arm themselves against attackers or would i need to ask my instructor first? Im not going to train them in any formal way, just show them basic self defense.

B

I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching them some things. What did you have in mind? My suggestion would be to use the KISS concept...keep it short and simple. I'd also take the time to show them proper form and execution of any strikes that you teach them. Who knows...maybe it'll spark their interest and they'll join up for regular lessons.

 

[KempoGuy06]

I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching them some things. What did you have in mind? My suggestion would be to use the KISS concept...keep it short and simple. I'd also take the time to show them proper form and execution of any strikes that you teach them. Who knows...maybe it'll spark their interest and they'll join up for regular lessons.

Short and simple is what I had in mind. Mainly just soft targets, throat, eyes or groin you know the drill. show some basic SD stuff, if they are bear hugged, or chocked from behind or in the front, wrist grabs.

Heres a question for you: should i go into basic weapons defense or not?

B

 

[Grenadier]

You could discuss it with your teacher. If he likes the idea, it could turn into a full-fledged seminar.

As for basic weapons defense... Better to teach them the defense against an unarmed attacker first, since weapons defense may be a bit beyond them at this stage. Get their feet wet first, then let them swim.

 

[KempoGuy06]

You could discuss it with your teacher. If he likes the idea, it could turn into a full-fledged seminar.

As for basic weapons defense... Better to teach them the defense against an unarmed attacker first, since weapons defense may be a bit beyond them at this stage. Get their feet wet first, then let them swim.

thats what i figured. Ill start off slow and go from there. looks like i Ill need to purchase some hand targets now...

B

 

[MJS]

Short and simple is what I had in mind. Mainly just soft targets, throat, eyes or groin you know the drill. show some basic SD stuff, if they are bear hugged, or chocked from behind or in the front, wrist grabs.

Heres a question for you: should i go into basic weapons defense or not?

B

I would say it depends on the people you're teaching. Simple sd moves can be taught and retained with little practice, such as what you'd see with Krav Maga. I can go into more detail with that if you'd like.

Weapons defense however is going to take much more time. So, if the people you're teaching are willing to commit to some serious training time, I'd say go for it. If they're looking for a few things and are only willing to commit to a short time, I'd say avoid the weapons.

 

[KempoGuy06]

I would say it depends on the people you're teaching. Simple sd moves can be taught and retained with little practice, such as what you'd see with Krav Maga. I can go into more detail with that if you'd like.

please do, if you do not mind.

Weapons defense however is going to take much more time. So, if the people you're teaching are willing to commit to some serious training time, I'd say go for it. If they're looking for a few things and are only willing to commit to a short time, I'd say avoid the weapons.

that crossed my mind to. its hard to come up with basic weapons defense moves because there is more detail involved with weapons than just SD. Ill have to talk to them.

B

 

[tshadowchaser]

first thing is get your instructors permission and suggestions.
next teach awareness and to listen to that inner voice that says there might be trouble.
Next teach escapes from grabs, etc. and what to do after they have gotten out of the grasp ( yell, scream for help, run like hell, etc.)

 

[MJS]

please do, if you do not mind.

I'm far from a KM expert, but these are just my observations from the little that I've worked. I'll use a 2 hand choke as an example. The initial defense is pretty much the same motion...a pulling or plucking, as its often referred to, of the hands. This method is used if the choke is applied from the front, side or rear. From there, depending on where the opponent is, the follow up strikes will vary.

The idea seems to be that this will eliminate too much thought. For example...a person in say Kenpo could have a total of 20 choke defenses, some from the front, some from the rear. I'd be willing to bet that many of them start off differently. So, under stress, is the student going to be thinking..ok, I'm being choked. Its from the front. Which of the X number of defenses do I use? With the KM method, as I said, it won't matter, because the removal method is the same.

Now, this isn't to say that KM is better than Kenpo. I'm simply pointing out that the KM method seems to be relying on the natural instinct, which is to bring the hands up to the area being effected.

that crossed my mind to. its hard to come up with basic weapons defense moves because there is more detail involved with weapons than just SD. Ill have to talk to them.

B

 

[KempoGuy06]

I'm far from a KM expert, but these are just my observations from the little that I've worked. I'll use a 2 hand choke as an example. The initial defense is pretty much the same motion...a pulling or plucking, as its often referred to, of the hands. This method is used if the choke is applied from the front, side or rear. From there, depending on where the opponent is, the follow up strikes will vary.

The idea seems to be that this will eliminate too much thought. For example...a person in say Kenpo could have a total of 20 choke defenses, some from the front, some from the rear. I'd be willing to bet that many of them start off differently. So, under stress, is the student going to be thinking..ok, I'm being choked. Its from the front. Which of the X number of defenses do I use? With the KM method, as I said, it won't matter, because the removal method is the same.

Now, this isn't to say that KM is better than Kenpo. I'm simply pointing out that the KM method seems to be relying on the natural instinct, which is to bring the hands up to the area being effected.

wow. thats very a very good way to think. ill have to apply that to myself as well.

you learn something new everyday

thanks

B

 

[Blindside]

Now, this isn't to say that KM is better than Kenpo. I'm simply pointing out that the KM method seems to be relying on the natural instinct, which is to bring the hands up to the area being effected.

How many times in a kenpo technique does the ideal work off the idea that a person "covers" the area where they were just hurt. Yet when it happens to a kenpoist (like the choke) we are to instictively drop into a tech where our hands do anything but?

 

[Blindside]

My question is, and it might be stupid, but would it be ok to show them stuff to arm themselves against attackers or would i need to ask my instructor first? Im not going to train them in any formal way, just show them basic self defense.

To be honest, most of the "women's self defense" classes are crap. They aren't long enough and they don't get enough reps in to develop usable skill in an adrenalized situation. I'm not saying that they shouldn't train, but to recognize that most real self-defense should be aimed at before the point of conflict. If these ladies really are getting into bad situations on a more-than-infrequent basis, they should probably seek out regular, consistent training.

 

[MJS]

How many times in a kenpo technique does the ideal work off the idea that a person "covers" the area where they were just hurt. Yet when it happens to a kenpoist (like the choke) we are to instictively drop into a tech where our hands do anything but?

Lets see...Destructive Twins doesnt go to the effected area, yet Fallen Cross does. Like I said, I'm not saying one is better than the other. I was simply giving an example of how the initial defense is the same in KM regardless of where the choke is coming from.

 

[KP.]

My personal thought on self-defense techniques taught in a seminar of off-hand manner do more harm than good.

Unless such techniques are practiced repeatedly at speed, it is entirely probable that trying to use them in real life will result in more harm than good.

Someone unwilling to put in significant training hours should be steered towards attack prevention and zero training defense weapons (such as pepper spray). Teach them to walk with their cell phones out and have 911 programmed on speed dial for a one-button call. Teach them to shout "Fire." Teach them to do whatever comes naturally, to run towards lights, and most importantly, to avoid situations where they could be easily victimized at all costs.

But teaching "techniques" is only going to instill a false sense of security that could well mean that they endanger themselves more than they otherwise would.

My view, for whatever it's worth.

 

[DavidCC]

But teaching "techniques" is only going to instill a false sense of security that could well mean that they endanger themselves more than they otherwise would.

I have to disagree. A sense of confidence goes a long way. We've done these classes for over 100 women and I don't think one of them left with the idea that she was invincible and could go anywhere, do anything she wanted without fear.

Also, in our WSD class, many of the students go through some emotional barriers that hopefully will make it easier for them to reach a point where they can do something other than freeze up should something ever happen.

Once they have the tools and mindset to avoid irrational fears, their true intuition can be felt - real, healthy fear when appropriate - and that could save their life.

 

[ljdevo]

Ok so I had the thread about advice for teaching and teaching kids in particular. well it got me thinking of a little problem ive been battling for the past couple of weeks.

I have a couple female friends who have been in some bad situations. They came out unscathed usually to quick thinking or the help of a passerby.

My question is, and it might be stupid, but would it be ok to show them stuff to arm themselves against attackers or would i need to ask my instructor first? Im not going to train them in any formal way, just show them basic self defense.

B

I agree completley with the KISS method, and must also emphisise that avoidance and diffusion of confrontations should also have a massive covering when teaching new students (although i know that avoiding and diffusing situations is not allways possible). But this is something that is not nearly covered enough in Martial Arts these days.

Like Mr.Lee says himself..."The art of fighting, without fighting".