Another Decriminalise Drugs Thread

[ballen0351]

I'm for legalizing MJ and for emphasizing treatment over prison for nonviolent drug offenses.

So your not going to answer the question. Its easy see watch:
You: Ballen are you OK with your kids having legal access to crack if they want to try it?

Me: No

 

[Tgace]

A substance like heroin that is highly physically addictive and is known to cause immediate death (vs something like cancer in smokers) has no place in our society.

 

[Drasken]

Crack, heroin, PCP, LSD, this isn't a weed only conversation

Of course it isn't. And I understand that. But it's lumped in there. And penalties for it are actually pretty severe in many places. Hell I know of one guy that got 4 months in jail plus a year probation for a small amount of weed. It was a first offense as well. So yeah most cops don't care, but the penalties are still retartedly harsh.

As far as hard drugs, I don't like them but I could honestly care less. If you are hurting nobody then do whatever you want. It's stupid, but it's your life. I have seen what comes of it, and it's not an easy thing to watch. So no I don't support harder drugs, but honestly people that aregoing to do it already are.
Saying that legalization would increase use is kind of stupid. However it could reduce overdose deaths. Give access to better care and rehab programs, quality control to stop people taking things that aren't what they were told it was and reducing things like meth labs.

As for real crimes. If you are stealing from or otherwise harming someone, real crime. Possession of a joint? Not worth arresting someone.

And yes, it is the law. But it's horribly stupid. And honestly should be changed.

Edit: And before anyone brushes it off or just assumes. No I don't want laws changed so "I can do whatever I want." Because I don't and have no intention of doing any drugs other than a cigarette habit that I'm trying to quit. So this is an opinion of someone with no sneaky motive involved.

And I'm sorry, our lawmakers are getting caught doing drugs and other crimes that they claim are so bad and serious and get no jail time. But a college kid's life gets ruined for the same stuff? Yeah, that's fair.

 

[ballen0351]

Nothing more to add on this, ballen. If you would read my earlier posts, you'll find I've already addressed this.

We both agree that drugs are a root cause to most crimes. We differ on the way to address the problem. You appear to want more legal access to all adults to the very thing causing the crime.
I do not.
I just don't think you have enough first hand knowledge to the pain and suffering having a herion addict causes to a family. If you asked any parent of a drug addict if they want to make drugs legal how many do you think will say yes?
To say drug laws don't work is just not true or at least not provable. There is no way to tell how many lives drug laws have saved either through someone not trying drugs in the first place or someone getting arrested for drugs and ordered into treatment and getting clean

 

[Tgace]

We both agree that drugs are a root cause to most crimes. We differ on the way to address the problem. You appear to want more legal access to all adults to the very thing causing the crime.
I do not.
I just don't think you have enough first hand knowledge to the pain and suffering having a herion addict causes to a family. If you asked any parent of a drug addict if they want to make drugs legal how many do you think will say yes?
To say drug laws don't work is just not true or at least not provable. There is no way to tell how many lives drug laws have saved either through someone not trying drugs in the first place or someone getting arrested for drugs and ordered into treatment and getting clean

I've lost count of how many parents have BEGGED me to arrest their child....

 

[ballen0351]

Of course it isn't. And I understand that. But it's lumped in there. And penalties for it are actually pretty severe in many places. Hell I know of one guy that got 4 . I in jail plus a year probation for a small amount of weed. It was a first offens as well. So yeah most cops don't care, but the penalties are still retartedly harsh.

And your friend is the exception not the rule. For everyone of him I can give you 10 that have been locked up over 10 times for cocaine and never been to jail more then a day or two. That just doesnt happen that offer. I arrested a guy 8 months ago with 6 pounds of weed. We had his trial the other day he got 10 days to be served on weekends

As far as hard drugs, I don't like them but I could honestly care less. If you are hurting nobody then do whatever you want. It's stupid, but it's your life. I have seen what comes of it, and it's not an easy thing to watch. So no I don't support harder drugs, but honestly people that aregoing to do it already are.
Saying that legalization would increase use is kind of stupid.

Huh? So more access and easier access won't cause more people to try it? More people try it everyday when its already illegal and unregulated and can kill you yet you believe making it legal won't get more people to try it?

However it could reduce overdose deaths. Give access to better care and rehab program bys, quality control to stop people taking things that aren't what they were told it was and reducing things like meth labs.

Better care? How? At least now the threat of arrest is a good motivator to keep soneone clean. Make it legal and you loose that motivation. Also being arrestes gets people into programs I cant tell you how many moms and wives have begged me to arrest a family member to get them help.

As for real crimes. If you are stealing from or otherwise harming someone, real crime. Possession of a joint? Not worth arresting someone.

And yes, it is the law. But it's horribly stupid. And honestly should be changed.

oh ok so only the laws YOU like need to need enforced. You should write a list and send it to your legislature since I don't make any laws I only enforce the ones I'm given

 

[Steve]

We both agree that drugs are a root cause to most crimes. We differ on the way to address the problem. You appear to want more legal access to all adults to the very thing causing the crime.
I do not.
I just don't think you have enough first hand knowledge to the pain and suffering having a herion addict causes to a family. If you asked any parent of a drug addict if they want to make drugs legal how many do you think will say yes?
To say drug laws don't work is just not true or at least not provable. There is no way to tell how many lives drug laws have saved either through someone not trying drugs in the first place or someone getting arrested for drugs and ordered into treatment and getting clean

Ballen, I actually have a lot of experience, first hand, with drug addiction, alcoholism, mental illness and homelessness. Different from yours, but still first hand, professional experience.

I respect your opinions. I just disagree with you. As I said before, we need to just agree to disagree.

I'm done writing books on this trying to articulate my position.

If something new comes up, I will add my two cents, but ultimately, what more is there for us to say ?

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[ballen0351]

Ballen, I actually have a lot of experience, first hand, with drug addiction, alcoholism, mental illness and homelessness. Different from yours, but still first hand, professional experience.

I respect your opinions. I just disagree with you. As I said before, we need to just agree to disagree.

I'm done writing books on this trying to articulate my position.

If something new comes up, I will add my two cents, but ultimately, what more is there for us to say ?

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Again nobody forced you to reply. Feel free to exit at anytime

 

[Drasken]

And your friend is the exception not the rule. For everyone of him I can give you 10 that have been locked up over 10 times for cocaine and never been to jail more then a day or two. That just doesnt happen that offer. I arrested a guy 8 months ago with 6 pounds of weed. We had his trial the other day he got 10 days to be served on weekends

Huh? So more access and easier access won't cause more people to try it? More people try it everyday when its already illegal and unregulated and can kill you yet you believe making it legal won't get more people to try it?

Better care? How? At least now the threat of arrest is a good motivator to keep soneone clean. Make it legal and you loose that motivation. Also being arrestes gets people into programs I cant tell you how many moms and wives have begged me to arrest a family member to get them help.

oh ok so only the laws YOU like need to need enforced. You should write a list and send it to your legislature since I don't make any laws I only enforce the ones I'm given

Once again I don't support legalization of all drugs. My father was a meth head and we couldn't get the cops to do anything. Andthe guy I know that was arrested for weed isn't a friend, I only know him through a rehab program that my friend is in for alcohol abuse. I was there to support my friend when this other guy was introduced.

Also, when our law makers are guilty of the same crimes that a college kid gets his Life ruined over... Yet get no penalties? That's hypocrisy.
As for only supporting the laws I agree with. Well. I remember discussions of cops that would not enforce gun control laws if they were passed. You seemed all for that.

Try and twist it all you like. The system is broken. It needs reevaluation and some changes. I actually agree with arni on this, treatment, not jail for nonviolent drug offenses. Jail doesn't help these people. And when they get out, they can't find work. End up in the system and go to lives of crime to pay their bills or just ride the welfare system and get right back on drugs.
But yeah, your way works best right?
Give me a break.

I'm not saying "Crack for everybody!" But I AM saying, there has to be a better way of doing things. The only drug I advocate legalizing is marijuana. There is no reason not to. Research and scientific evidence points to benifits of said drug and safety of said drug. So THAT one I support, yes. The others? Not so much no

As for legalization meaning more people trying it? Really? Everyone I knew in college fell into one of two groups. Those who did drugs DESPITE it being illegal. And those that had no interest. None of the people I knew said "man if only meth were legal I'd be smoking it every day."
As a cop I know you have seen stuff that nobody wants too. I respect that and thank all police for putting themselves in danger to keep dangerous people off the streets. But while I agree with much of what you say, can you honestly claim to have never thought "There has got to be a better way to deal with SOME of these cases"?

 

[Tgace]

The "benefits of weed" pap is a crock. I respect the "its less harmfull to trip on than booze" argument more than I do the "inhale smoke its good for you" ********.

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[Tgace]

Its a good thing cigarettes and alcohol are controlled, otherwise children could get them.....

....oh....wait....

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[Drasken]

The "benefits of weed" pap is a crock. I respect the "its less harmfull to trip on than booze" argument more than I do the "inhale smoke its good for you" ********.

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The smoking of weed isn't exactly great but less harmful than tobacco. In fact studies show almost no threat of cancer, on the contrary it seems to slow cancer cell growth due to the compounds found in the plant. However the eating of it shows signifigant benefits with no adverse effects.
The only thing studies have shown negatively is the correlation ( not causation ) of schizophrenic episodes in patients already suffering from the condition. However these studies are also inconclusive and there have been studies that show a calming of schizophrenic episodes as well thus more study is needed. Which will take forever due to the legal status of the subject in question.
Even before it was made illegal, it was shown to pose no danger. And yet we have demonized it.

Sorry, I'm a biology major that focuses on pharmaceutical studies. I know my medicines and such, so I have a great interest in this topic and what it could mean for treatments of various conditions.

 

[ballen0351]

Once again I don't support legalization of all drugs. My father wI didn't th head and we couldn't get the cops to do anything. Andthe guy I know that was arrested for weed isn't a friend, I only know him through a rehab program that my friend is in for alcohol abuse. s there to support my friend when this other guy was introduced.

So in reality you have no idea that it was his first arrest or it was a little weed. He may have changed the facts slightly so he didn't seem l. e a crack head

Also, when our law makers are guilty of the same crimes that a college kid gets his Life ruined over... Yet get. o penalties? That's hypocrisy.

And again i dont i only enforce the laws Im not a judge. That however is life not just drug crimes but all crimes. If you have money you can afford better representation to defend you.

As for only supporting the laws I agree with. Well. I remember discussions of cops that would not enforce gun control laws if they were passed. You seemed all for that.

I swore to uphold the Constitution as the highest law. Legally i cant enforce an unconstitutional gun law . I do regularlly enfoce laws I dont agree with. Its part of the job as long as they dont violate a higher law

Try and twist it all you like. The system is broken. It needs reevaluation and some changes. I actually agree with arni on this, treatment, not jail for nonviolent drug offenses. Jail doesn't help these people. And when they get out, they can't find work. End up in the system and go to lives of crime to pay their bills or just ride the welfare system and get right back on drugs.

I agree as well thats why keeping drugs illegal makes it easier to order treatment. Thats how the courts are moving towards. Drug treatment vs incarceration. The question becomes how many times do we try treatment before they earned punishment. Sometimes Jail is the kick in the butt needed to get someone to hit rock bottom and get clean.

But yeah, your way works best right?
Give me a break.

Its not my way. I didnt write the laws remember

I'm not saying "Crack for everybody!" But I AM saying, there has to be a better way of doing things. The only drug I advocate legalizing is marijuana. There is no reason not to. Research and scientific evidence points to benifits of said drug and safety of said drug. So THAT one I support, yes. The others? Not so much no

Just as much research shows Marijuana isnt good for you. But why do you get to pick and choose what shoukd be changed?

As for legalization meaning more people trying it? Really? Everyone I knew in college fell into one of two groups. Those who did drugs DESPITE it being illegal. And those that had no interest. None of the people I knew said "man if only meth were legal I'd be smoking it every day."

I know people right now that have said I'm only clean because I don't want to go back to jail. Make it legal and they won't go to jail. I also know people that don't smoke weed because its illegal and if it were legal they would smoke. Making it legal is basically saying its not so bad. Gives the wrong impression to kids. I do find it amusing we spend millions to talk people out of smoking and you want to allow people to smoke new stuff. You said yourself you want to quit.

As a cop I know you have seen stuff that nobody wants too. I respect that and thank all police for putting themselves in danger to keep dangerous people off the streets. But while I agree with much of what you say, can you honestly claim to have never thought "There has got to be a better way to deal with SOME of these cases"?

Sure longer jail time for dealers, 3 strike your out for users. You get arrested and are sentenced to rehab arrested rentenced to rehab arrested and sent to rehab
After that you get arrested again its jail time. Sentence gets longer and longer after each arrest. At some point you will get tired of going to jail and fix yourself.

 

[Drasken]

I agree that after so many times being sent to treatment it's obvious you aren't getting clean. And honestly if you are getting caught several times then you are obviously doing something wrong.
Cops can't just bust into your house without a reason, and us you have to be doing something else to get caught several times.

As for the research that shows pot is bad.... Well I've yet to see a reputable source make that claim and back it up with proof. A LOT of said studies used fake research analogs for their studies. The difference in real THC vs. Research chemicals is enormous. In fact the research chemicals in fake weed have been attributed to strokes and deaths. Something that has never been reported in any case of THC

I think we agree on many points here, and are arguing over approach mostly. And it is likely due to differing experiences in the same basic realm. But where I have seen several people who harm nobody and work productive jobs and smoke weed. You also have to deal with the smack heads that use weed to "even themselves out" and commit real crimes such as theft, assault, etc. Which is probably the reason you ended up there in the first place.

 

[ballen0351]

I agree that after so many times being sent to treatment it's obvious you aren't getting clean. And honestly if you are getting caught several times then you are obviously doing something wrong.
Cops can't just bust into your house without a reason, and us you have to be doing something else to get caught several times.

As for the research that shows pot is bad.... Well I've yet to see a reputable source make that claim and back it up with proof. A LOT of said studies used fake research analogs for their studies. The difference in real THC vs. Research chemicals is enormous. In fact the research chemicals in fake weed have been attributed to strokes and deaths. Something that has never been reported in any case of THC

I think we agree on many points here, and are arguing over approach mostly. And it is likely due to differing experiences in the same basic realm. But where I have seen several people who harm nobody and work productive jobs and smoke weed. You also have to deal with the smack heads that use weed to "even themselves out" and commit real crimes such as theft, assault, etc. Which is probably the reason you ended up there in the first place.

Again you keep focusing on weed. Under 10grams here doesn't even carry jail time here. This isn't a make legal weed thread it's about all drugs.

 

[Drasken]

Again you keep focusing on weed. Under 10grams here doesn't even carry jail time here. This isn't a make legal weed thread it's about all drugs.

Lol I only focus on weed being legalized as my argument yes. I don't think all drugs being legal is necissarilly a great idea. However I have pointed out things that are both good AND bad about the arguments on both sides.
The point is I advocate legalizing weed, which our country is moving toward anyway. I don't think meth is a good idea, and I have argued the points of other drugs in previous replies.

 

[Steve]

Again nobody forced you to reply. Feel free to exit at anytime

I meant with you. If it's okay with you, I will continue to participate in the discussion with others.

Again, this isn't meant as disrespect. I understand your points. I respect your opinion. Even though it's clear you don't understand or respect mine. It's okay. We can agree to disagree.

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[ballen0351]

I meant with you. If it's okay with you, I will continue to participate in the discussion with others.

Again, this isn't meant as disrespect. I understand your points. I respect your opinion. Even though it's clear you don't understand or respect mine. It's okay. We can agree to disagree.

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I don't disrespect your opinion. I shared your opinion about 10 years ago. I no longer do.

 

[Carol]

Smoking is a horrible drug delivery method. I think legalization of MJ would also bring out the power of the free market to create safer forms. With nicotine we saw the development of chewing gum, skin patches, and "e-cigarettes".


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[Tgace]

Smoking is a horrible drug delivery method. I think legalization of MJ would also bring out the power of the free market to create safer forms. With nicotine we saw the development of chewing gum, skin patches, and "e-cigarettes".


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True....but those are methods to quit smoking (besides e-cig) aren't they?

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