Another black eye for Taekwondo

[IcemanSK]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/23/olympics.cubanattacksref?gusrc=rss&feed=sport

Sadly, THIS will speak louder than the much that's good in our Art. While we understand the difference between Art & sport, the public does not.

 

[crushing]

I just ran across that on nbcolympics.com as I was looking for TKD videos. I see it as a black eye for Matos and a blemish for the Cuban team, not necessarily for sport TKD.

 

[KickFest]

I saw this on the BBC as it happened and it was absolutely shocking! There's NO excuse to attack a ref in ANY sport, and this will just drag Taekwondo's name in the dirt in the eyes of the general public.

I see it as a black eye for Matos and a blemish for the Cuban team, not necessarily for sport TKD.

Yes, we know that, but to quote Iceman:

While we understand the difference between Art & sport, the public does not.

In a sport like football (soccer, whatever), something like this would be put down to the player in question. As a martial art, this violence will reflect back on TKD and every player know that.

 

[crushing]

People don't have to know anything about TKD to realize that one person got out of hand, did something stupid and assaulted an official. Of course there will some people that will react in the way you suggest, but for the most part people are smarter than that (or maybe I am too optimistic? I have been let down before).

EDIT ADD-

I wonder if those that play football or soccer think the same way for their sport, that such actions are a black eye for their sport, but they wouldn't think the same about other sports where similar incidents happen? In fact, I vaguely recall something like this happening in baseball or football. People close to the incident thought it was bad for the sport, but people away from that sport thought only about the individual doing something bad.

 

[Tez3]

I don't think that's the worst of it tbh, the judging was abysmal whenever a Chinese fighter was involved. NOT the Chinese TKD people's fault's but certainly not an advertisement for impartiality. Luckily where the British girl was concerned the officials agreed the judges had got it wrong and changed the result, kudos to the Chinese team for their sportsmanship in agreeing that their girl had lost.

 

[KickFest]

You raise an interesing point about "insiders" vs "outsiders" (for lack of better labels) opinions, crushing. Perhaps I'm over-defensive because TKD is something I have invested in and I worry about its public image more than joe public would.

I'll be sure to ask other people what they think and see if they view it as a black mark against TKD or the player.

 

[Windsinger]

My fiancee is a basketball and volleyball official. While vastly different sports from TKD, I find refs get the short end of the stick no matter what they do. The Cuban coach said the ref was "too strict". But if the ref had given the Cuba player extra time, people would have complained that he was too lenient. Personally, the ref followed the rules and was in the right.

As for this poor example of a TKD practitioner, Matos got exactly what he deserved. As KickFest said, there's no excuse for what he did, and what's worse is that the coach is pretty much condoning what he did. Which, imho, makes the coach no better than Matos.

Hope the ref is okay.

 

[Svart]

Video is up to.

 

[KickFest]

After watching that video on youtube, is it just me or does the Cuban coach say something quickly to Matos (Matos lowers his head as if to hear what the coach is saying) and turn away the second before he kicks the ref? Almost as if the coach told him to do it... :uhohh:

 

[Tez3]

I think perhaps Olympic TKd does have a problem, the general public is far more aware of martial arts these days due to the popularity of martial arts films and their stars, there's few who haven't watched Jackie Chan for instance however they are generally ignorant of the differences between martial arts. For example people who know me obviously know I do martial arts but it gets called various things, Judo, karate, Kung Fu and even jap slapping, I've been asked several times now about the TKD that is being shown from the Olympics. The first thing is always why is it just kicking, that's not the martial arts they see normally in films etc. It's not what they see whenever a martial arts demo is on. That's TKD first image problem. If people are switching on to watch a martial art they want it to be what they consider a martial art which to many now is probably a Chinese one, punches, strikes and fancy kicking.
Will the Cuban incident harm TKD, yes but maybe not in the way you imagine. I've been on another site where everyone was saying well why couldn't the ref defend himself, ok the kick would have taken him by surprise but even so instinctively you tend to block or move. Martial artists in the general public's eyes ought to be able to defend themselves! That's the perception and what is being voiced by non martial arts people. Rightly or wrongly that's what's out there.
The petulance and bad sportsmanship is being taken as just that, one bad apple only.

 

[crushing]

The Youtube video has been pulled for copyright reasons. Here is the official nbcolympics.com link: http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/share.html?videoid=1438818

Skip ahead to around the 2:19:00 mark for the injury to the foot and the events that followed.

The ref didn't defend himself? How did this turn around into some sort of blame the victim? He is a 44 year old ref (supposedly surrounded by martial artists), not a world class olympic level TKD specialist!

EDIT

This link works even better: http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/share.html?videoid=0823_SD_TKM_AU_L1783

 

[IcemanSK]

The Youtube video has been pulled for copyright reasons. Here is the official nbcolympics.com link: http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/share.html?videoid=1438818

Skip ahead to around the 2:19:00 mark for the injury to the foot and the events that followed.

The ref didn't defend himself? How did this turn around into some sort of blame the victim? He is a 44 year old ref (supposedly surrounded by martial artists), not a world class olympic level TKD specialist!

I agree. Whether he was also a martial art or not is beside the point. Him defending himself as a ref would have been even worse in the press. The ref did the right thing.:asian:

 

[Windsinger]

I agree. Whether he was also a martial art or not is beside the point. Him defending himself as a ref would have been even worse in the press. The ref did the right thing.:asian:

Add to that the fact that he probably didn't expect that kind of behavior. Not at this level of competition!

 

[Tez3]

Hey I'm not arguing but pointing out this is the non martial arts peoples perception of martial arts people and they are just voicing their opinions. Both the guy kicking the ref and the British girl's fights have featured heavily on the national news on the television and will be all over the newspapers in the morning! TKD is headlining at the moment big style here and not in a good way.
I agree if he'd KOd the offending guy it would have looked bad but see it from a laymans point of view here. We bang on about MA being for self defence and the 'no first strike' thing and there's this martial artist who's attacking someone who they perceive is also a martial artist who can't defend himself. Remember the martial arts competitions most people have seen are those in films!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/23/olympics2008.olympicstaekwondo1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/23/olympics.cubanattacksref
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport...on-takes-bronze-medal-great-Chen-robbery.html

This is the newspaper however that will make the worst of it all, The Sun is shall we say not the most tactful or thoughful paper.If you follow the link to the Cuban story and then to the comments by readers you'll see what I mean. The comments I saw were on another website.
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sport...on-takes-bronze-medal-great-Chen-robbery.html

 

[granfire]

clearly a threatening pose....

wowser....he needs to go into boxing, I am sure Mike Tyson can chew his ear off....

 

[Windsinger]

I've seen people on YouTube saying Matos should go into MMA. Even in MMA there's discipline (people like Tank Abbot excluded, of course).

I just cannot believe that there are people out there agreeing with what he did! I mean, sure, if he disagrees with the call (which I, personally, think was the right one), he has the right to be frustrated. But to deal with it the way he does... Makes me wonder how much he paid for his black belt, because he sure as hell doesn't have the discipline or the temperment of any black belt I've ever met.

 

[YoungMan]

After this, and the incident involving Mark Lopez, I would be really surprised if Taekwondo were still in the Olympics in 2012. Watch for Wushu to take its place.

 

[terryl965]

I agree the Olympic sport of TKD will not be after 2012, it would be a shame for all those young athletes that have trained for the past couple of years to have a shot in 2012 and only four spots allowed. I am so ashamed to be in TKD right now with all the bad sprtmanship going on on the matt and off, between Steven and Moreno complaining and the referee's not scoring head shots along with the Cuban athlete kicking a ref.

I fear we have a mess to clean up over the next decade, I mean look at the under lying means of a closed meeting telling coaches no protest for it may hurt the sport at this point and time. What the hell do we have rules if our athletes believe they do not need to follow them. From the Nia Abdullah depacle to this Olympic we are a sport with a bruise the size of the world.

In closing I would like to say it is the sadest of time for the Art as well as the Sport.

 

[IcemanSK]

After this, and the incident involving Mark Lopez, I would be really surprised if Taekwondo were still in the Olympics in 2012. Watch for Wushu to take its place.

Do I wanna know about this one? What happened with Marl Lopez & Moreno?

 

[Windsinger]

I saw a news article the other day about TKD not being in the Olympics after 2012. The WTF said that they intend to enact changes that will make the sport more popular, and less prone to calls of biased and unfair judging.

I do have to admit, I'm not sure if I want to see what they have planned or not.