Another ATA 5 year old black belt

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by RonMarlow, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Having said this: "I mean we have 1 year black belt programs in Korea after all. "

    I wanted to note before anyone jumps in with Chuck Norris or Joe Lewis earned their black belts in a short period - different situations altogether. I have no real issues with adult SOLDIERS taking an abbreviated path to a black belt if they have mastered the requirements while undoubtedly proving their fitness for the rank through sparring bouts with other good fighters.
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean, from what I've heard, the adult ATA black belts can't defend themselves, either. So, at least the grading is consistent. :D
     
  3. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    Meany!
    :D
     
  4. NSRTKD

    NSRTKD Green Belt

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    Dancingalone: I bet the parents of that school find parents like me completely barbaric and absolutely no fun at all! Lol :)
     
  5. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Probably. Like I said my sister knows there is a difference between my school and the school to which she sends her kids to. It serves the exact niche she wants and there's something to be said for that, I guess.
     
  6. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    The problem is that there exists no universal standard for any level, particularly black belt. Certainly not within the arts as a whole (specifically arts that use the Dan/Kyu or Dan/Gup system). And certainly not even within the same art. Let us use TKD as a prime example since this is the TKD section of the board. Within the broad label of TKD we have major factions such as the KKW, ITF, ATA, USTA etc (some larger than others of course). Then we have independent, old school, traditional and eclectic as smaller sub-factions. None of them necessarily agree with each other on number of Gup levels, order of belt colors, TIG to BB etc. Now let us go even further into just one faction; we'll use the KKW as an example. As many have stated before, children in Korea can reach BB in about a year. Some children here in the U.S. (and other countries) apparently can reach it in about a year as well as we've seen in many of these threads.

    Now...

    Some may say that Korean children train 5 days a week and other children in other countries train twice a week, yet make BB in the same amount of time. Does this mean Korean kids are better because they may get more training or worse since other kids get there quicker? This is the catch-22. One can take either position and offer rationalization to support that position. But it all reverts down to this; by what universally recognized standard are you using? And since one doesn't exist...well it makes for great chit-chat on the boards but nothing will ever get solved either way.

    I'll say this as an example; I don't think a kid below the age of maybe 16 needs to be a BB or whatever alternate name one wishes to use. BB is a milestone in one's training, achieved through dedication, hard work and even practical life experience. I don't see a five-year old as having done that. And in my further opinion, schools of this ilk are simply kiddie karate daycare that cater to the all-mighty dollar. That's my position.

    However...

    I can only base this on personal opinion. Since no universally recognized or accepted standard exists it is all a moot point. There will never be a universally recognized or accepted standard as there are too many people of lax standards that are in it for something other than the arts themselves (read money). It would take the heads of almost every martial arts organization (large and small) having a summit and agreeing upon a standard and writing it in stone and them following it. Anyone see this happening?

    So the bottom line is that BB is a personal thing that really only means something to the individual earning it and perhaps within their circle of training and influence. Beyond that it gets very nebulous. And ultimately, that is very unfortunate. Perhaps the Dan/Kyu and Dan/Gup system have outlived their purpose and usefulness? But that is the subject of another thread. ;)
     
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  7. Em MacIntosh

    Em MacIntosh 3rd Black Belt

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    Impressions of what a BB is differ from person to person. That goes without saying.

    I know what it means to me, I realize there's no set standard and don't expect others to have the same impression. That goes without saying.

    If a parent wants to inflate their child I disagree with it but that's their business until there's quality control applied to these things.

    Based on the video he appears to be a yellow belt that is missing some of the fundamentals.
     
  8. NSRTKD

    NSRTKD Green Belt

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    Question... in ATA, are the blue/red stripes a sign of being a junior instructor trainee? Thats what those stripes imply in my style, HTF, though I can't imagine a 5 year old being a junior instructor trainee. That's an awful lot of pressure for 5.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  9. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    They have various levels of "instructor certification". People in the stages of earning them wear differently colored collars on their uniforms to denote the status. The first level used to be a red collar although now I think they let 'Leadership' students wear that too. They're big on the uniform bling - hard to keep up with that stuff unless you're actually in the ATA. My niece was a State Champ in their organization and she got to buy a uniform just for that purpose with the recognition boldly lettered on the back of her dobok.
     
  10. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Got a clarification. The blue/red stripes means he is a 'junior leadership' student. People with ATA instructor program recognition wear a black/red collar or a black/red/black collar or a simple black collar depending on their instructor stage.
     
  11. NSRTKD

    NSRTKD Green Belt

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    Ah! Thanks for that. Do you know what's differently required for a leadership student versus a non-leadership student?

    See in our school, the blue/white/red means "junior instructor trainee" and the solid red means "senior instructor trainee" while a solid black is "certified instructor"...
     
  12. hungryninja

    hungryninja Orange Belt

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    In the ATA, it probably differs from school-to-school. However, at the minimum, I believe leadership students may learn extracurricular material, work on life skills, learn teaching skills. In essence, they have access to and are responsible for more material.

     
  13. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    Don't get me started. I'm in the ATA and I disagree with this like you wouldn't believe. And the solution to the problem is so damn simple, yet no one wants to do it: Don't give rank to Tiny Tigers. Period, end of statement.
     
  14. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    You heard wrong. Sorry to disillusion you.
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    :) Just poking fun, Balrog. I know next to nothing about TKD.
     
  16. hungryninja

    hungryninja Orange Belt

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    One alternative I've seen from an ATA school is where they give out tiny tiger ranks/belts (essentially, white belts with colored stripes designating "rank" or progression through the TT ranks). They remain as "white" belts (or colored white belts) until they are older (juniors), where they start going through normal belts, but starting at orange belt.But I agree with you Balrog.
     
  17. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    And that still makes you more knowledgeable about TKD than ATA. ha.ha.ha..
    (Writer's note: I am only poking fun and ribbing ATA. ATA like any other martial art has good and bad practitioners, but all we really hear about our the bad...such as this particular subject. I ask that the ATA please not send there XMA ninjas with their foam padded kamas to take me out as I am allergic to the material they use on them. Thank you)
     
  18. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    Life Time Fitness is starting their own martial arts program and one of the classes will be 4-5 year olds. I am heading up the program at our local LTF club in Warrenville, IL. I plan on using this type of system for them. They will will have White belts with the color stripe going down the middle. I am constructing the program so that when they reach a certain rank in their program it will be equivalent to a beginning rank in the 6-7 kids program. (Example a w/yellow stripe will be equal to a orange w/white stripe). This way they can transition to the next class with out have to feel that they started over.
     
  19. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    And are charged more, correct? My understanding is that enrollment in these types of "leadership programs" requires additional tuition that is paid over and above the regular class tuition.
     
  20. dancingalone

    dancingalone Grandmaster

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    Yep. It's another 30 bucks on top of the basic tuition at my niece's school, but they definitely push you to take a higher tier class since you can't really learn everything needed to advance if you pay only for 'basic' classes. Hmm, maybe meat for another topic.123
     

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