American Doomsday: Climate Change?

[granfire]

a further look at the global warming thugs and the now doubtful 97% "consensus...

Climate McCarthyism: The Scandal Grows

and when out of arguments we commence name calling.

How original.

 

[K-man]

First, it isn't my side of the debate that is keeping others from publishing their work, hiding relevant information and destroying other information so the skeptics can't see it, and it isn't my side that is trying to get editors fired for publishing the work of skeptics...



And the billions that the supporters of man made global warming get from their activity...that doesn't count?

K-man, last week they announce that Antarctic glaciers are calving ice...and announcing it with doom and gloom in their announcement and not once do they mention the volcanoes under the ice...active volcanoes as a possible reason for this...and they blame it all on man made global warming....

And that doesn't seem even slightly dishonest to you...really?

And the information I post...you can check it yourself, read the papers linked to in the articles I cite and make up your own mind....and yet you say I'm the problem?

You see Bill, I don't have a side. I am quite prepared to look at the evidence and make up my mind one way or the other. I would love for you to be right because the future would not face the risk of global warming. But your ranting flies in the face of most evidence. You shamelessly shoot the messenger when you don't have evidence as Gran pointed out. But at least you are honest enough to admit that you have chosen sides, albeit the side of the extreme right.

But when it comes to a position you are all over the shop when it suits you. You agree with articles with conflicting points of view. To discredit the IPCC you paise people who dissent from the IPCC base position even though these guys admit that global temperatures are rising and that human greenhouse emissions are at least partially responsible. Then in the next breath you tell us that we don't have warming at all.

Whether a scientific journal publishes someone's paper depends on the editorial policy of that paper. If you were to send one of your rants into the 'Democrat Weekly' I would be extremely surprised if they published it. You could jump up and down and complain that they are biased or whatever else but at the end of the day the editorial committee run the show. If they want to publish scientific papers they can self publish or find another organisation that will publish. If people want to publish extremist nonsense they could do what you are doing and simply join a forum like MT.

As to volcanoes under the ice in Antarctica, there is a small chance there could be some activity causing ice melt. When we visited Antarctica a few years back a few of our group actually went for a dip at Deception Island where a small vent was warming the surrounding water. That is an active volcano, just it is not erupting at present. There are no known active volcanoes causing glacial ice melt at present so how is it dishonest to not acknowledge something for which there is no evidence of its existence. After all I am pretty sure it wasn't elephants trampling my front lawn. Is it dishonest of me not to state publicly that I might have been visited by a stray pachyderm? So, really, I don't think it even a tiny bit dishonest to ignore the volcanoes erupting under the Antarctic glaciers, unless of course, someone can find one.

 

[billc]

even though these guys admit that global temperatures are rising

Some, not all, but we are told the debate is over...and if we try to debate we get name called...sort of like what granfire does...

And considering they only deployed seismic equipment capable of withstanding the cold of the Antarctic, what, two years ago...and yet they think they know everything there is to know about what might be happening under the ice...really? That they can say that volcanic activity isn't causing any melt...

And the climategate emails show there were coordinated attempts to block skeptic papers from getting published...and to get editors fired...and to destroy their data to deny it to skeptics...but we have to "trust" their word about their "science" on the subject of global warming...really?

But when it comes to a position you are all over the shop when it suits you.

No, I am just not afraid to post things that discuss the issue...I believe that the earth warms, and cools...and the debate is when the earth is going to do which, next. Some scientists say it is warming because of man...then if we are pumping green house gases into the air in increasing amounts...then why did the warming stop for the last 17 years, 9 months...something their alleged models did not predict...so why should I trust them when they say the earth is warming, when it hasn't, and then the next step...if it stopped warming, how is that possible if man is causing it...we certainly didn't stop putting out greenhouse gases lately...in fact, India, China are putting out even more.

And then the scientists I cite are called fakes, and frauds and shills...but the other side are angels...tell me who isn't being honest here...

I put out the information I find and if some of these guys say global warming is happening...see...the glaciers are melting...I like to show that well...if they say that, why don't they talk about the volcanoes...

I am not the one suppressing critics, or threatening critics and if you disagree...feel free to find your own sources and post those...

That is an active volcano, just it is not erupting at present.

K-man...it doesn't have to erupt...it can just ooze...ever see the volcanoes in Hawaii...the lava that bubbles and bubbles without exploding...might heat up water a bit...and they don't even know the extent of these things because they can't measure them accurately yet...

And yet...they want to tell us to change our lives on their word...

If people want to publish extremist nonsense

How do you know it is extremist nonsense...the guys telling you this are the ones who lied to you already...as they collect their grant money, awards, tenure, book deals, lecture fees...

Here you go K-man...volcanoes that ooze lava in Hawaii...would it be a stretch to think that the two volcanos they know about under the Antarctic ice might ooze lava...and that that might heat water...and that might be the cause of any melt of the ice...

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Red-hot-Hawaii-The-Big-Island-s-lava-flows-ooze-1097995.php

The colors of the impending dawn can't compete with the blazing hues of molten rock as it gloops into the Pacific hissing and spitting. Flowing lava shows up most vividly in the dark, so it's best to make the trek over lava fields to the coast either before dawn or during the day and stay until after the sun sets. Photo: David Jordan/Special To The Post-Intelligencer

You should check out the photos...looks kind of...hot...

Uhhhh...here is a list of volcanos in Antarctica...from wikipedia...that is a lot of volcanos...I wonder how many of them are oozing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volcanoes_in_Antarctica

from one of the Answer sites...

How many active volcanoes are there in antarctica?


In: Antarctica, Volcanoes [Edit categories]

Answer:
2 volcaones are active

So, at least two are oozing hot lava into the water under the ice...hmmmm...

Hmmm...there seem to be active volcanos under the arctic ice as well...really? and they never mention this when they allege the glaciers are melting...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080625140649.htm

Fire Under Arctic Ice: Volcanoes Have Been Blowing Their Tops In The Deep Ocean

Date:​

June 26, 2008

Source:​

Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

Summary:Researchers have uncovered evidence of explosive volcanic eruptions deep beneath the ice-covered surface of the Arctic Ocean. Such violent eruptions of splintered, fragmented rock -- known as pyroclastic deposits -- were not thought possible at great ocean depths because of the intense weight and pressure of water and because of the composition of seafloor magma and rock. The evidence of violent eruptions on Gakkel Ridge in the Arctic defies assumptions about seafloor pressure and volcanism.​

Really...really...check this out...

Something else they didn't know...because the science on underwater volcanos was..."settled"...as of 2008...

The evidence of violent eruptions on Gakkel Ridge in the Arctic defies assumptions about seafloor pressure and volcanism.

Well, I guess that assumption isn't "settled" anymore...is it...perhaps they can just create a consensus and say that it is anyway...

So tell me again how man made global warming science is "settled..."

 

[K-man]

And considering they only deployed seismic equipment capable of withstanding the cold of the Antarctic, what, two years ago...and yet they think they know everything there is to know about what might be happening under the ice...really? That they can say that volcanic activity isn't causing any melt...

The fact that they haven't found volcanic activity certainly doesn't mean that there is no volcanic activity. However it also doesn't mean there is. So, unlike you who is clutching at straws, I am prepared to wait for evidence. Glaciers are retreating all over the world. Are you suggesting that there are volcanoes under all of them?

And the climategate emails show there were coordinated attempts to block skeptic papers from getting published...and to get editors fired...and to destroy their data to deny it to skeptics...but we have to "trust" their word about their "science" on the subject of global warming...really?

As a friend of mine would say ... GALGOI! (Get a life, get over it) Climategate happened, it was explained, it was years ago. Forget it, it is no longer relevant.

No, I am just not afraid to post things that discuss the issue...I believe that the earth warms, and cools...and the debate is when the earth is going to do which, next. Some scientists say it is warming because of man...then if we are pumping green house gases into the air in increasing amounts...then why did the warming stop for the last 17 years, 9 months...something their alleged models did not predict...so why should I trust them when they say the earth is warming, when it hasn't, and then the next step...if it stopped warming, how is that possible if man is causing it...we certainly didn't stop putting out greenhouse gases lately...in fact, India, China are putting out even more.

You see, many might say that the warming didn't stop back then. You are the most vocal proponent of that theory. Others would say that heat is being stored in the oceans but far from me to claim to be expert.

And then the scientists I cite are called fakes, and frauds and shills...but the other side are angels...tell me who isn't being honest here...

I'm not sure that I have read of anybody you have quoted being called 'fakes, and frauds and shills'. Certainly some are lacking credibility because of past performance and I might not credit them as reputable, but not fakes, frauds and shills. There are extremists in all fields. Science is no different. I prefer to keep an open mind rather than push the views of people who have taken money to push a position in the past.

I put out the information I find and if some of these guys say global warming is happening...see...the glaciers are melting...I like to show that well...if they say that, why don't they talk about the volcanoes...

Why would people talk about volcanoes unless there was a shred of evidence to suggest it was a factor?

I am not the one suppressing critics, or threatening critics and if you disagree...feel free to find your own sources and post those...

K-man...it doesn't have to erupt...it can just ooze...ever see the volcanoes in Hawaii...the lava that bubbles and bubbles without exploding...might heat up water a bit...and they don't even know the extent of these things because they can't measure them accurately yet...

The volcano on Hawaii is active, believe me. I have flown over it, seen it and smelled it. If there was one doing that in Antarctica we would know about it.

Oh, btw, the Hawaiian volcano doesn't just 'ooze', it blows up.

And yet...they want to tell us to change our lives on their word...

How do you know it is extremist nonsense...the guys telling you this are the ones who lied to you already...as they collect their grant money, awards, tenure, book deals, lecture fees...

No, they don't want us to change our lives on their word. We are relying on their evidence for that.

As to the publication of extremist nonsense ... it was the stuff you are posting I was referring to.

Here you go K-man...volcanoes that ooze lava in Hawaii...would it be a stretch to think that the two volcanos they know about under the Antarctic ice might ooze lava...and that that might heat water...and that might be the cause of any melt of the ice...

Red hot Hawaii: The Big Island's lava flows ooze a primordial beauty - seattlepi.com

You should check out the photos...looks kind of...hot...

They might. Then again they might not.

Uhhhh...here is a list of volcanos in Antarctica...from wikipedia...that is a lot of volcanos...I wonder how many of them are oozing...

List of volcanoes in Antarctica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

from one of the Answer sites...

So, at least two are oozing hot lava into the water under the ice...hmmmm...

Hmmm...there seem to be active volcanos under the arctic ice as well...really? and they never mention this when they allege the glaciers are melting...

Fire Under Arctic Ice: Volcanoes Have Been Blowing Their Tops In The Deep Ocean -- ScienceDaily


Really...really...check this out...

Something else they didn't know...because the science on underwater volcanos was..."settled"...as of 2008...

Well, I guess that assumption isn't "settled" anymore...is it...perhaps they can just create a consensus and say that it is anyway...

So tell me again how man made global warming science is "settled..."

I'm not sure where you are getting the rubbish about deep water volcanoes from. Hawaii was formed from deep water volcanoes. They have known that for many years. There is a new island forming in the same area. They knew that when I was in Hawaii 20 years ago. I have watched documentaries on underwater volcanic activity for decades. Nothing new there. While the Earth has a molten core and we have shifting continental plates we will have volcanoes coming up in lots of new places. Hardly rocket science!

As to Antarctica ... Mount Erebus is active, that is it has molten lava. Mount Berlin and Deception Island have steam vents. The Hudson Mountains and Penguin Island may be active. What is that meant to prove?

 

[billc]

How hot is lava...or as Dr. Evil would say..."Magma."

How Hot Is Lava? | LiveScience

Ice melts at 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Chocolate melts at 90 F. But rock? Now we're talking a lot more heat.


Lava, the melted rock that shoots out of volcanoes, can flow at temperatures of thousands of degrees Fahrenheit.


Lava that's on the cooler side comes out of volcanoes at only pizza oven-like temperatures of 570 F, according to the United States Geological Survey (USGS).

Hmmm....ice melts at 32 degrees vs. lava at a minimum 570 degrees...yeah...that won't effect ice in the Antarctic...

 

[K-man]

How hot is lava...or as Dr. Evil would say..."Magma."

How Hot Is Lava? | LiveScience

Hmmm....ice melts at 32 degrees vs. lava at a minimum 570 degrees...yeah...that won't effect ice in the Antarctic...

Exactly! If it was there it would certainly affect the ice. Just that no one has found it. There is no evidence that lava is melting glaciers. Where is the evidence for your proposition? In your mind!

 

[billc]

Yeah, it's just crazy to think that lava underneath ice might cause some melting...who have thunk it...

 

[granfire]

Yeah, it's just crazy to think that lava underneath ice might cause some melting...who have thunk it...

ice thickness of between 2000 and 4000 meters....yeah, I can see it where the lava doesn't make a dent....

 

[granfire]

'A less polar pole': Arctic sea ice at record low - U.S. News

 

[K-man]

'A less polar pole': Arctic sea ice at record low - U.S. News

Drat! Must be those pesky volcanoes again.

 

[granfire]

Drat! Must be those pesky volcanoes again.

Polar bear pee

 

[granfire]

Antarctic Rate of Ice Loss Double Previous Estimate | I lovely Love Science

 

[ballen0351]

Antarctic Rate of Ice Loss Double Previous Estimate | I ****ing Love Science

Yep and at some point it will all be gone. BUT then it will all freeze again you know like the last time

 

[billc]

Antarctic Rate of Ice Loss Double Previous Estimate | I ****ing Love Science

While the first study is apocalyptic in its implications, little of the damage is likely to be seen this century – the worst could be a thousand years away. The second will raise sea levels by less, but on a shorter timescale. It can, though, still be ignored by those who, in John Oliver's words “cannot be trusted with the future tense.”

Sooo...let me translate this...since telling people that the worst case is about 1000 years away...uhhhh...we better change the time scale on that or they won't give us money to fix a problem 1000 years in the future...(What were those idiots thinking telling people it will take 1000 years...sure...that's long enough that they won't be able to tell we were full of **** but too far away to get them to pay us...)

Sooo...now...

However, the Centre for Polar Observation and Modelling at Leeds University has found that ice loss is happening right now, and at twice the rate estimated using an incomplete version of the same technique.

Whew...fixed that...so now...if you will just give us all the money we want we can continue to study this fake...urrrr...apocalyptic problem...something that we can't fix if we tried...urrrrr...I mean if we just start now with draconian life style changes for you stupid people...
​

 

[granfire]

Yep and at some point it will all be gone. BUT then it will all freeze again you know like the last time

eventually we will have died out, somehow the earth will - likely - find a new way to reabsorb Carbon.
Or not and just develop new lifeforms.
It won't matter, because mankind will be dead and gone.

 

[billc]

And on that...

Antarctic ice shelf melt 'lowest EVER recorded, global warming is NOT eroding it' ? The Register

Scientists at the British Antarctic Survey say that the melting of the Pine Island Glacier ice shelf in Antarctica has suddenly slowed right down in the last few years, confirming earlier research which suggested that the shelf's melt does not result from human-driven global warming.

The Pine Island Glacier in West Antarctica and its associated sea ice shelf is closely watched: this is because unlike most of the sea ice around the austral continent, its melt rate has seemed to be accelerating quickly since scientists first began seriously studying it in the 1990s.




Many researchers had suggested that this was due to human-driven global warming, which appeared to be taking place rapidly at that time (though it has since gone on hold for 15 years or so, a circumstance which science is still assimilating).
However back in 2009 the British Antarctic Survey sent its Autosub robot probe under the shelf (famously powered by some 5,000 ordinary alkaline D-cell batteries on each trip beneath the ice, getting through no less than four tonnes of them during the research). The Autosub survey revealed that a previously unknown marine ridge lay below the shelf, over which the icepack had for millennia been forced to grind its way en route to the ocean. However in relatively recent times the ice had finally so ground down the ridge that the sea could flow in between shelf and ridge, freeing the ice to move much faster and warming it too.
As we reported at the time, this caused BAS boffins to suggest that the observed accelerating ice flow and melt seen since the '90s was actually a result of the ridge's erosion and sea ingress, rather than global warming.

Now, the latest BAS research has revealed that rather than accelerating, "oceanic melting of the ice shelf into which the glacier flows decreased by 50 per cent between 2010 and 2012".

Dr Pierre Dutrieux of the BAS adds, bluntly:

"We found ocean melting of the glacier was the lowest ever recorded, and less than half of that observed in 2010. This enormous, and unexpected, variability contradicts the widespread view that a simple and steady ocean warming in the region is eroding the West Antarctic Ice Sheet."

 

[granfire]

A shocking reason to go green:

 

[ballen0351]

Lol yeah that's what he's saying

 

[wimwag]

K-man...bill is providing actual sources of information and you're basically just saying "nnnnno!". Gotta admire you sticking to your guns lmao

 

[wimwag]

Yep and at some point it will all be gone. BUT then it will all freeze again you know like the last time

history repeats itself, and yet nobody lays attention.