埋伏 Ambush

[23rdwave]

A fight is unpredictable because fighters are unpredictable. When the opponent does something unexpected or unusual one must adapt to the circumstances and respond to the change in attack or defense not continue with step 2 of a prearranged combination.

I'm not talking about sport fighting but the one where the only bell that gets rung is between the ears.

 

[Tez3]

A fight is unpredictable because fighters are unpredictable. When the opponent does something unexpected or unusual one must adapt to the circumstances and respond to the change in attack or defense not continue with step 2 of a prearranged combination.

I'm not talking about sport fighting but the one where the only bell that gets rung is between the ears.

How many fights like that have you had? My instructor has had plenty, bare knuckle 'traveller' fights, fights that have been started when he's been on the doors, fights when civvies decide to start on squaddies etc. Before I retired I had a few people starting fights for various reasons. I don't think you understand that you don't do 'pre arranged combinations' but that you are aware of what you are doing, ie if you do a certain move they will respond in a given way ( they can't avoid it because of the nature of the move you did) so then you can do the move that will finish the altercation. It's not prearranged but is the result of a lot of training and being able to keep your head. fights aren't as unpredictable as you'd imagine, it's one reason awareness is so important.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

if you do a certain move they will respond in a given way ( they can't avoid it because of the nature of the move you did) so then you can do the move that will finish the altercation.

I think a better way of putting it might be to say that by doing a given move, you can constrain your opponent's options. There is always more than one way an opponent can react, but if you are skilled enough you can limit him to fewer and worse options.

 

[Tez3]

I think a better way of putting it might be to say that by doing a given move, you can constrain your opponent's options. There is always more than one way an opponent can react, but if you are skilled enough you can limit him to fewer and worse options.

Yes, certainly. It's knowing more than just how to do a technique but also what it does and how it can make your opponent/attacker react. A very simple example is kneeing them in the stomach, how they fold up rather than stand up and move away, as I said a very simple example before I get jumped on lol. It may well apply even more to grappling than stand up but I believe you can control what goes on far more than people realise, it isn't all flailing around by both sides hoping for a lucky punch. It isn't as random as that.

 

[Steve]

Yes, certainly. It's knowing more than just how to do a technique but also what it does and how it can make your opponent/attacker react. A very simple example is kneeing them in the stomach, how they fold up rather than stand up and move away, as I said a very simple example before I get jumped on lol. It may well apply even more to grappling than stand up but I believe you can control what goes on far more than people realise, it isn't all flailing around by both sides hoping for a lucky punch. It isn't as random as that.

This is very true. It's why we have submission chains or combinations in striking.

It's also the basis of the push/pull reaction and many others.

 

[Steve]

A fight is unpredictable because fighters are unpredictable. When the opponent does something unexpected or unusual one must adapt to the circumstances and respond to the change in attack or defense not continue with step 2 of a prearranged combination.

I'm not talking about sport fighting but the one where the only bell that gets rung is between the ears.

This is ALSO true. Every time I've been injured in class, it's been sparring with a white belt. Why? Because they don't react predictably.

In MMA matches, guys like Machida or Silva have unorthodox styles, and as a result, they have a lot of success. You can't find a training partner who can replicate what they do in the cage. They are unpredictable, and as a result, the combinations other fighters practice and refine become less useful.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A fight is unpredictable.

If you respond to your opponent's attack, when he

- punches at you, you block his punch,
- kicks at you, you block his kick,

you are playing his game, of course the fight is "unpredictable". This is why it's important that you attack your opponent first, put him in defense mode, and execute your "plan - set up".

A 3 steps set up is shown In the following clip.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Every time I've been injured in class, it's been sparring with a white belt. Why? Because they don't react predictably.

When you apply "pulling" on a

- white belt, 99.9% of the time he will resist, try to prove that he is stronger than you, and you can't pull him. You can then borrow his resistance (his body is going backward), add your pushing, and take him down "backward".

- black belt, he may borrow your pulling, add his pushing, and try to take you down first. When that happen, you can borrow his pushing (his body is going forward) and increase your pulling and take him down "forward".

When you start to pull your opponent around, since whether he may either resist or yield, you will have your next move waiting for him, you can predict what may happen more than he can, that will be your advantage.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In MMA matches, guys like Machida or Silva have unorthodox styles, and as a result, they have a lot of success. You can't find a training partner who can replicate what they do in the cage. They are unpredictable, and as a result, the combinations other fighters practice and refine become less useful.

In order to be unpredictable, when your opponent attacks, you will need to reverse your defense mode back into offense mode right at that moment. It then depends on who has better skill after that point.

 

[Tez3]

This is why it's important that you attack your opponent first, put him in defense mode, and execute your "plan - set up".

For that I'd check on the law where you are, attacking first can mean you are considered the aggressor and if it comes to explaining to the police you could be batting on a sticky wicket. Of course have you considered not fighting at all?

If your attacker doesn't know you he won't know whether you are being predictable or not will he? It's perhaps not predictability you need to worry about but effectiveness.

In the UK 'pulling' someone has a very different meaning roflmao.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

attacking first can mean you are considered the aggressor ...

Not if your opponent attacks you first, you jump back, remain the same distance, you then attack.

 

[Tez3]

Not if your opponent attacks you first, you jump back, remain the same distance, you then attack.

What? Attack me and I'm not jumping back and forward like a demented flea, you're having some!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What? Attack me and I'm not jumping back and forward like a demented flea, you're having some!

That "backward jumping" can give your some extra time to think

- Whether you want to commit on that fight or not.
- How far you want to get yourself into that fight.
- Do you want to hide yourself for the rest of your life in the Amazon jungle?
- Do you have enough money in the bank to support your family while you are hidden.
- ...

An old saying said, "When you fight, you have to see something red (blood)". If you think that you don't hate your opponent that much and you don't want to draw blood out of his body, your "backward jumping" can also give you extra time to cool down and walk away.

When someone attacks you and you counter right back at that moment, you may hurt your opponent more than you really want to. Some Karate guy once said,

If you attack me the

- 1st time, I'll move back.
- 2nd time, I'll move back again.
- 3rd time, I'll still move back again.
- 4th time, I'll attack back and eat you alive.

Compare to his approach, my approach is not "conservative enough".

 

[Steve]

If you attack me the

- 1st time, I'll move back.
- 2nd time, I'll move back again.
- 3rd time, I'll still move back again.
- 4th time, I'll attack back and eat you alive.

Compare to his approach, my approach is not "conservative enough".

Doesn't this seem like a very predictable response?

 

[Tez3]

That "backward jumping" can give your some extra time to think

- Whether you want to commit on that fight or not.
- How far you want to get yourself into that fight.
- Do you want to hide yourself for the rest of your life in the Amazon jungle?
- Do you have enough money in the bank to support your family while you are hidden.
- ...

An old saying said, "When you fight, you have to see something red (blood)". If you think that you don't hate your opponent that much and you don't want to draw blood out of his body, your "backward jumping" can also give you extra time to cool down and walk away.

When someone attacks you and you counter right back at that moment, you may hurt your opponent more than you really want to. Some Karate guy once said,

If you attack me the

- 1st time, I'll move back.
- 2nd time, I'll move back again.
- 3rd time, I'll still move back again.
- 4th time, I'll attack back and eat you alive.

Compare to his approach, my approach is not "conservative enough".

Seeing red and hating your opponent is one of the best ways to lose a fight. I really don't see any of your ideas about jumping back working quite frankly.

 

[drop bear]

I think a better way of putting it might be to say that by doing a given move, you can constrain your opponent's options. There is always more than one way an opponent can react, but if you are skilled enough you can limit him to fewer and worse options.

Or he is doing a whole bunch of freely deeky low percentage stuff trying to be unpredictable.

But personally I don't believe tricking is that effective.

 

[drop bear]

Doesn't this seem like a very predictable response?

If you looked at it like an attack and reply. Then sort of. Obviously if I am not doing damage then I generally need to leave that striking zone. Or I get countered.

So we set up this thing where I fire off a combo move back. Then you fire.

But there are ways to break that dynamic. Like extending the combination. Fake backing off and coming straight back in or going back attacking.

So. I can throw a punch combo. Retreat change levels double leg. If I catch them thinking that it is their turn to punch. I can just about make them do back flips.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Doesn't this seem like a very predictable response?

When someone attacks you (assume no weapon involved), you can treat it as a chance to polish your "defense" skill. You don't need to fight back right at that moment. If your opponent attacks you and you move back, he may think that you are afraid of him. When you attack him back, that will surprise him big time. If your opponent attacks you 3 times, all fail, and still want to attack you the 4th time, he will deserve a "big surprise" from you.

In CMA, before you stab your dagger into your opponent's chest, you should use your dagger handle to strike on his chest first. You should at least give your opponent a warning before you kill him. If you have spent some training time and develop some combat skill, it still doesn't give you the right to hurt people whenever you want to.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

if I am not doing damage then I generally need to leave that striking zone.

I like that approach too. Your "entering strategy" may not work every time. But as long as you can make it to work just once in every 10 tries, that will be all you need to "finish" that fight.

 

[moonhill99]

This is so true. In

- wrestling, when you try to throw your opponent forward and if he resists, you can borrow his resistance and throw him backward.

Not on some one taking Judo. They get training to do throws,take downs and fighting on the ground and training how to counter it too.

In CMA, there is a style that's called "埋伏 (Mai Fu) - Ambush". It emphasizes on "using a fake move to set up a real move". This principle is used in all categories such as kick, punch, lock, and throw.

1 kick - use round house kick to set up a side kick.
2. punch - use hook punch to set up a back fist.
3. lock - use shoulder lock to set up an elbow lock.
4. throw - use hip throw to set up an inner hook.
- ...

Let's share your opinion on this principle.

I looked up Ambush and there is no such word. Do you mean counters, traps and parries?

The redirect and counter assault?

Like in Okinawan Karate?

A counter or trap with a strike and technique with a finish move not a submission