am i over looking judo for real self defence?

[Laplace_demon]

IMO it depends both have standing and ground games and time spent training each area can vary. It seems to me one could become proficient in BJJ quicker than judo, due to the technical complexity of throws. It also seems BJJ is easier on the body. Some BJJ schools offer a more self defense geared curriculum. But if I were starting martial arts all over I'd recommend judo. Dumping someone on their head is a sure fight ender.

A lot of wc guys seem to follow this line of thinking but boxers do it all day. Head gear, mouth guard, gloves, and a little restraint go a long way. When I teach FMA we wear headgear with a plastic face cage because we train elbows, and use mouth guards and MMA gloves. Everyone keeps their teeth and no on dies .

Oh really?

Any attack include kicks from lounge range create openings that an experienced person can exploit. If mma has shown us anything it's that you can't defeat a skilled grappler with striking alone, but you can combine striking and grappling and defeat a superior grappler.

A small fraction of the worlds martial artists ever enters UFC. Do you know how many phenomenal strikers in the worlds population there is and how many that actually competed?

Do I need to tell you none of them were or are grandmasters?

 

[Laplace_demon]

not sure what you mean.

i strike and grapple in training.

You are claiming grappling is equally effective as striking. Would you only use grappling/throws then?

I can only employ striking only. Let any fool on the street attempt a takedown and I will smash, knee and kick his face to oblivion.

 

[ballen0351]

You are claiming grappling is equally effective as striking. Would you only use grappling/throws then?

Sure I can think of situations Id only want to grapple and not strike and I can think of times Id strike and not grapple and I can think of times Id use both.

I can only employ striking only. Let any fool on the street attempt a takedown and I will smash, knee and kick his face to oblivion.

Then what happens if that doesn't work?

 

[Langenschwert]

I would certainly say Judo very is useful for self-defence, but I wouldn't use it as my first line of defence should an altercation take place if I can help it. I'd prefer to strike if I can, and if the range collapses, use my Judo. I don't want to tie up with someone not knowing the situation, but I know what to do if that happens. The standard lapel and sleeve grip still allows for an opponent to strike, so I would likely use the medieval German clinch which is bicep and elbow, but similar in concept to the Judo version. It just controls the arms much better.

But most people can't strike worth a hill of beans anyway. It's highly unlikely that the average joe is going to knock a Judoka out before said Judoka hits him with a planet regardless of the grips used. Most really good fighters don't go around picking fights in public and the chances of a Muay Thai fighter and Judoka meeting at a bar and throwing down over something after playing poke-chest is so small as to be laughable.

The only "real" danger is if there's a knife involved. You don't want to be mucking OR fiddling in close range if that's the case since it's suicide. Neither boxing nor Judo as taught for sport will prepare you for that.

The striker vs. grappler debate has been done to death. You've got to be an amazing striker to be safe from a reasonable grappler. The odds favour a grappler, but it's not 100%. Nothing ever is. Yeah, you can get your face kneed going for a singe leg. You can also miss your knee and get taken down. If you don't know how to fall and smack the back of your head from the takedown you could be seriously injured. Or you could slip on beer doing your uchi mata and take a header on the ground and knock yourself out.

Don't go getting into fights, it's stupid.

-Mark

 

[Laplace_demon]

Then what happens if that doesn't work?

I view it in the same category as knocking me out. If it happens, bad luck. Doesn't mean it's very likely.

 

[Laplace_demon]

The striker vs. grappler debate has been done to death.

-Mark

Name me one grandmaster in Taekwon-do participating in the octagon. You won't find any in that white trash cage. Some people care about more things in life than money and being Dana Whites *****.

 

[ballen0351]

I view it in the same category as knocking me out. If it happens, bad luck. Doesn't mean it's very likely.

LOL so your plan is if my knee doesnt work I give up and let them have their way with me? Great plan

 

[Laplace_demon]

LOL so your plan is if my knee doesnt work I give up and let them have their way with me? Great plan

I am of course a huge underdog if he get's me down. Why would a striker deny that?

 

[ballen0351]

Name me one grandmaster in Taekwon-do participating in the octagon. You won't find any in that white trash cage. Some people care about more things in life than money and being Dana Whites *****.

None of this has anything to do with what was posted. Dana White and the UFC have nothing to do with the grapple vs strike debate

 

[jks9199]

Eh no, that's what a guard is for. Besides, I don't need to open myself up to kick someone at a distance.

If you're in range to hit or kick them -- you're in range for them to hit or kick you. Best case, if Tom Cruise is fighting Lebron James... Cruise can still concentrate on injuring James's leg as he kicks and then moving in to a range where he can do more...

Then your not using Judo, but Judo and striking. Judo in and of itself is dubious.

Judo can be very effective on the street. I know folks who have used it for real -- in fact, I've used judo throws for real, not that I claim to be even a novice judoka. Just been taught a throw or two...

 

[Laplace_demon]

If you're in range to hit or kick them -- you're in range for them to hit or kick you.

Not comparable to being in someones face and trying to grab a hold of him.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You are claiming grappling is equally effective as striking. Would you only use grappling/throws then?

I can only employ striking only. Let any fool on the street attempt a takedown and I will smash, knee and kick his face to oblivion.

I'm will to bet I'm not the only person who read this, laughed, and hoped that you'd remain the category if "people with no real experience".

I take down people in the ER way too often. My face is just fine. Never smashed, kneed or kicked.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

 

[Reeksta]

Judo's great for self defence. Aside from all the things already mentioned, there's a certain physical intensity that (in my experience) no martial arts except judo and wrestling will subject you to during training. You will be pushed to and beyond your limits in the dojo regularly; this is a good thing

 

[Mephisto]

A small fraction of the worlds martial artists ever enters UFC. Do you know how many phenomenal strikers in the worlds population there is and how many that actually competed?

Do I need to tell you none of them were or are grandmasters?

What's your point? No one in the UFC has a paper that calls them a gm? I can create my own system and make myself a GM, rank certainly isn't indicative of skill, especially from a system that doesn't spar.

You are claiming grappling is equally effective as striking. Would you only use grappling/throws then?

I can only employ striking only. Let any fool on the street attempt a takedown and I will smash, knee and kick his face to oblivion.

Id go as far to claim grappling is more effective than striking on the basis that a decent grappler can take down and dominate a skilled striker and leave him helpless. I don't mean that as a slight to striking arts a skilled striker can learn some grappling and one up the pure grappler. Lol you're one if those guys that thinks you'll smash your way through a grappler? All that has to happen is you run into a guy big or tough enough to fall onto you as you're striking him and you're grappling. That's why we see it in every boxing and kickboxing match. A guy starts getting pummeled and he clinched or backs out. It's not unrealistic to assume a guy getting pummeled on the street might grab you in a desperate attempt to avoid getting hit.

Name me one grandmaster in Taekwon-do participating in the octagon. You won't find any in that white trash cage. Some people care about more things in life than money and being Dana Whites *****.

So do you think there's some illusive highly skilled guys fighting somewhere outside of the MMA, kickboxing, boxing world? You mean all the tkd grandmasters that make you sign annual contracts, pay testing fees, have huge franchises, and nickel and dime their students are of such high moral character that they won't step into a ring to represent their chosen country or art? What about the Olympic tkd guys? Or the tkd guys that learn Muay thai too and enter the ring? You're living in a dream world man.

 

[Mephisto]

Another benefit of judo and grappling in general is the ability to control a person and use non lethal force. You can't eye gouge or ko you're drunk or out of control friend. A ko can end badly if the guy falls and hits his head. Some are quick to state that grappling is a death sentence of a blade is involved. If you can control to limb holding the weapon grappling is a valid approach. Controlling and securing the weapon is important in a knife encounter, especially if space is limited, some blade specific training would help a grappler but it's not the instant death sentence many act it is. Let's not forget you're in a very bad spot if you're forced to engage a knife wielding attacker. Most blade systems will tell you to expect to get cut even for a highly trained person.

 

[ballen0351]

I am of course a huge underdog if he get's me down. Why would a striker deny that?

So instead of throwing up your hands and saying oh well why not fix the disadvantage in your game and do a little cross training in something to give you more options besides I'm going to mash in your face with my knee. Judo, bjj, wrestling, hapkido etc.

 

[Mephisto]

So instead of throwing up your hands and saying oh well why not fix the disadvantage in your game and do a little cross training in something to give you more options besides I'm going to mash in your face with my knee. Judo, bjj, wrestling, hapkido etc.

That's my thought or Laplace_Demon could just concede that learning both would be best but he chooses not to. You don't have to be the best at everything. I don't train grappling right now, that's okay, any grappling I do now would be rusty and sub par compared to someone who does it regularly including myself years ago when I trained it regularly. if you don't want to train something that's find but don't denigrate other arts a fughters that do just because it's not what you do. For some reason a lot of people feel the need to justify why what they do is best, it's a low level of thinking. Be objective, a decent amateur competitive MMA player could kick the asses of most people, a solid hudo competitor as well, yes even in the streets with no rules

 

[drop bear]

You are claiming grappling is equally effective as striking. Would you only use grappling/throws then?

I can only employ striking only. Let any fool on the street attempt a takedown and I will smash, knee and kick his face to oblivion.

you would be surprised how many strikers say that.

i do mma. I get to encounter quality strikers who are attempting just that.

Queensland is also the home of world class muay thai.

possibly the only fight sport where we can say we are a dominant force.

 

[drop bear]

Name me one grandmaster in Taekwon-do participating in the octagon. You won't find any in that white trash cage. Some people care about more things in life than money and being Dana Whites *****.

then how do you know they can take on grapplers?

there is a tkd guy in one of our elite gyms somewhere here. And by accounts his striking is quite formidable.

(heard it mentioned in passing. I could probably chase up who if anyone cares)

 

[elder999]

A small fraction of the worlds martial artists ever enters UFC. Do you know how many phenomenal strikers in the worlds population there is and how many that actually competed?

Do I need to tell you none of them were or are grandmasters?

Anthony Pettis is 3rd Dan in tae kwon do. Hardly a grandmaster, but still-it must have cost him a good $10000 to get there....