Alternating Maces

[Rainman]

In our own curriculum I have added an additional six (6) techniques to balance the curriculum to sixteen (16) and to fill some holes I perceived to be in the first level of instruction.

Yoda,

That's the best thing I've heard all day! Parting the Bear one of those?

:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by WilliamTLear




Are you talking about cancelling your opponent's width with a kick while remaining relatively in front of him? Or... Are you simply looking for a technique that closes your opponent's centerline with a kick?

Please Explain,
Billy Lear :asian:

I believe he is talking about closing the centerline with the inward block and re-opening with the rt. knife edge kick to the inside of the left knee. That's what I get.

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by kenpo3631



Correct. In Attacking Mace you close the centerline with your left inward block and regain control of the ceterline with the right punch to the rib cage. In Aggressive Twin you close it (centerline) with the right inward block and regain control of it with the right knife edge kick. All from working the front of the body. Leaping Crane, as Billy stated works the centerline from your opponents obscure zone.

So the begginer is learning how to regain control of the centerline with the either the hands or the feet. You here allot of "motion kenpo" people say "what you do with your hands, you can do with your feet". So if you don't show them Aggressive Twins don't you lose a piece of the kenpo puzzle? Another question that could be asked is "Was the technique (Aggressive Twins) designed to teach that concept?":asian:

Height width and depth are cancelled with the diagonally downward block for AM. The main problem I have with AT is width is cancelled on the inward block unless it is diagonal. Tough to do with a two handed push to HZ 1 unless you violate point of origin. I am not comfortable with movements that cancel one zone at a time. I do agree I see nothing in the system that works the same as AT. Another question is why was it dropped? For me AT just doesn't have the checks most of the other teks have built in.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Yes there was 3 that were "originally in the Yellow Belt Curriculum.
For a better explanation click on this link.
Original System
and...
Technique Charts

So.......... are you saying you believe what Len Broussard states is accurate?

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
but it was not created or developed by Ed Parker
Surely you cannot tell me that Mr. Parker let it be in the system simply b/c it was easier.

So Lance, did Ed Parker develop the Punch, or Kicking Set # 1, or ............... ?

Surely he would not let them be in the system simply because they were there?

:rofl:

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

YOU see it that way...... but many others don't.

But you are entitled to your opinion.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Can you give an explanation?

I don't think it matters what I explain to you. You are locked onto your views.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Klondike93
But I would like to know what you think

Be glad to give you my views....... email me.

[email protected]

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Yes, I strongly beleive in my views, however I am NOT locked into them. If someone can explain to me why they are doing it and it is sound, logical and follows the rules of the Art then I will consider adopting those views or at least examine their point further.

And I have strong beliefs as well, that are substantiated by fact not hearsay or filled with incorrect or irrelevant information about "who" invented the technique, or one or two particular viewpoints from others that I may disagree with. The "Rules of the Art" in many cases, possibly are set forth by certain individuals that now believe they are the "last word" on issues and not a set of rules that many other Seniors agree with.

Originally posted by kenpo3631
I ask you this, why can you not give me an explanation on this forum?

I never said I "could not" give an explanation, but before entering "Technique Wars", I first require a level playing field, the same technique description is necessary on both parts so as to be able to compare apples to apples. I do not know what version you posses or were taught and exactly how you perform or how much you understand about it. So, without first examining in detail, it is merely a back and forth throwing of rocks which might just result in both being right from their exact perspective, or once the issues are clearly on the table, one or the other can see the others exact point and then and only then begin to figure out a quality solution to the question.

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Do you not have the answer?

Is this a challenge Lance? C'mon !!!!!!!!

Originally posted by kenpo3631
You did after all have the priveledge of studying with the SGM, were you not privy to that information?

Yes I did!! .......... and for quite a while also!, that is well documented and was promoted 3 times by him too. Can you say the same?

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Is it because you don't know?

Right! Are you becoming frustrated with your training or something? For you to ask such a question, is unlike you, I felt you were smarter than that. I don't know a lot of things, I'm still a student also, can you teach me the correct way? (what ever the attitude ........... so the response)

Originally posted by kenpo3631
They were very simple questions Mr. C. I would hope you would have something to expound upon.

Some times it's better to talk off line and not hurt feelings.

Originally posted by kenpo3631
So once again I will ask, if you close the centerline with hands, somewhere there has to be a technique that shows the same principle with the feet should there not?

If you drop Aggressive Twins, you lose a technique that shows the same principle (closing the centerline) with the feet.

Do you learn it in Alternating Maces? where else would you learn this concept? what other technique teaches it?

Oh now I get it :rofl: ........ you must want a "category completion" answer here to validate your beliefs.

Originally posted by kenpo3631
I am sure that these are some of the more menial questions you have been asked in you tenure as a kenpoist. I look forward to your veiws.
:asian:

No, it could be a great question, not menial at all, but I don't know exactly the specifics on how exactly you perform the technique, as I stated above.

Respectfully,
:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Doc
I am the last word on nothing but my own curriculum, and I consistedly remind everyone that I don't execute or teach Kenpo as most everyone else does.

:rofl:I wasn't referring to you!:rofl:

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
1) If you close the centerline with hands, somewhere there has to be a technique that shows the same principle with the feet should there not?

What do you consider "closing the centerline with hands"???

Originally posted by kenpo3631
How would you hurt my feelings?

I didn't mention anyone specifcaly.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by kenpo3631
Why run when you can fly

Cause you dont have wings!

 

[kenpo3631]

In EPAK we are taught that everything has an opposite and reverse, correct?

If we teach this teach this technique and not the "original" #2 technique we lose a piece of the Kenpo puzzle.

So my question is why does this technique exist and who "originally" developed it?

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

this is the only #2 yellow technique I've ever learned. Was there a different one? If so, what?

Yes there was 3 that were "originally in the Yellow Belt Curriculum.

For a better explanation click on this link.

Original System

and...

Technique Charts

 

[kenpo3631]

The "original" 32's started at Orange Belt. There was no Yellow Belt until the 70's I believe it was.

Yes, you are right though Alternating Maces did replace Aggressive Twins on the technique charts.

Which leads me to my earlier question - why does Alternating Maces exist and who "originally" developed it?

:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Roland

But I don't know why?

I knew that, but I was waiting to see who else was going to spill the beans....:rofl:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



So.......... are you saying you believe what Len Broussard states is accurate?

:asian:

It just confirms what I saw on Mr. Parkers student handouts for the 32 technique system that was taught at Pasadena.:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Rainman



Aggresive Twins will not stop a hard follow through push. AM does and is much easier to do. The push is to height zone 2. Height zone one is (for example) parting wings. Where I train it is common for belts to come in about a year or 2. Other schools where tests occur in say 3 or four months for yellow there is no way a student with that amount of time can hit the knee shot to set up the rest of the technique. To buckle the knee A)without damaging the knee B) Dimensionally cancel with a strike to the knee graded at white is asking for problems.

Don't know who developed AM.

:asian:

Aggresive Twins will not stop a hard follow through push.

:rofl:I am going to stop right here:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Have you ever had this technique done correctly on you??? I have by first genration black belts.....I think you need to reconsider the above qoute sir:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

quote: Originally posted by kenpo3631
I am going to stop right here. Have you ever had this technique done correctly on you??? I have by first genration black belts.....I think you need to reconsider the above qoute sir

You changed the subject- WHITE BELTS not BB's. Show your proof instead of meandering around and looking for support from your so called Kenpo Gods and doing the name dropping bit. Point by point refute what I said. It is a technical forum- so far nothing technical from you.

Well sir, in my statement did I mention anyone's name? No. My so called black belt gods? Who said anyone was a god? Besides, none of the so called "gods" you mention actually partake in this forum, they are too busy running their schools or teaching. I participate because where I am stationed there is not any kenpo schools, besides that I like to converse with other kenpoists.

You posted below...

Aggresive Twins will not stop a hard follow through push. AM does and is much easier to do. The push is to height zone 2. Height zone one is (for example) parting wings. Where I train it is common for belts to come in about a year or 2. Other schools where tests occur in say 3 or four months for yellow there is no way a student with that amount of time can hit the knee shot to set up the rest of the technique. To buckle the knee A)without damaging the knee B) Dimensionally cancel with a strike to the knee graded at white is asking for problems.

I will agree AM is easier to do, but it was not created or developed by Ed Parker. Great so it is easier to learn, but what does it give a kenpoist? Surely you cannot tell me that Mr. Parker let it be in the system simply b/c it was easier.
Your feet are to your legs as your hands are to your arms correct? SO...if you close the centerline from the front with your hands why can't you do it with your feet? This is one of the concepts that Aggressive Twins teaches. Also in AT you close the centerline with your right arm as in AM.
As far as belt grading....2 years for a YELLOW belt to me is a bit extreme. but I am sure you instructor knows what he is doing, I will not question that. To teach a white belt to buckle a knee, why not? who says they have damage the knee?. It would nice, but all that is required is to get them (your opponent) to rotate inboard (minor move), to set them up for the front kick to the sternum (major move). As far as it causing problems for students, that is your opinion, I disagree with it for I have not had a student not be able affectively perform this technique. Hey, that's what forums are for though correct? To state opinion and gather info.:asian:

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



So Lance, did Ed Parker develop the Punch, or Kicking Set # 1, or ............... ?

Surely he would not let them be in the system simply because they were there?

:rofl:

:asian:

For a lack of a better description here it goes.

Mr. Parker put his stamp of approval on the Kicking set yes? Why? My best guess is because he saw the benefits of an exercise to strengthen the ability of a practioners in an area some people would like to beleive kenpoist lack in - kicking.

Whenever I saw him and someone asked him about a different set other than Star Block, Finger Set #1, or the Kicking Set #1 he always had someone who had learned it somewhere do the set and he would inject his thoughts and insight. (Just a sidenote...isn't that odd don't you think? A creator of an Art never actually demonstrated it, but just gave insight as another person performed it) Anyway...

The art is a system of motion correct? If you close the centerline with hands, somewhere there has to be a technique that shows the same principle with the feet should there not? If you drop Aggressive Twins you lose that. Do you learn it in Alternating Maces? where else would you learn this concept? what other technique teaches it? If there is no other than by deleting Aggressive Twins you lose a piece of the "kenpo-puzzle".