AKKI: Shaping the Future of Kenpo?

[KenpoEMT]

You're almost right, you should've been to the last LTKKA camp last month, I think you would've been shocked.

I would love to be wrong on this issue. Could one really walk into an LTKKA camp without being a member of the LTKKA and be part of the experience?

I don't know if you're willing to, but would you share some of the highlights of this camp?

 

[KenpoEMT]

Clyde's right!
The LTKKA has large 'get togethers' where lots and lots of people come and share ideas and instruction and such.
The AKKI also has large 'get togethers' every six months where everyone from our top-brass on down share ideas, we all get instruction and there's great comraderie (s/?). (We also have a Christmas get-together as well)
Last I knew the AKKS had good get togethers.
I think that Mr. Picks group (sorry....forget the letters) has'm, as does "Kenpo 2000" under Mr. Hancock..

I think the Kenpoworld has Good get togethers....

That is really kewl. I was aware of the fact that most associations do have gatherings. Truthfully, it sounds as if I would have to purchase a membership from each association in order to attend any of their events; I could easily be wrong.
I was really just bemoaning the lack of cooperative collection and dissemenation of information between all of the existing bodies. I really would like to attend LTKKA and AKKI camps alike. I love 'old' Kenpo, and what little I know of 'new' Kenpo is interesting.

it's a tradition started by Mr. Parker.....a Polynesian who just plain knew how to hold a GOOD BBQ !!!!!

Now there's a Grandmaster I wish that I would have known!!!
This must be the true 'secret' of Kenpo...amazing speed and power with an everexpanding waistline!

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

AKKI Kenpo leading the way? I spent some time in the AKKI and I've already been blasted by some AKKI members for my opinion. But here goes anyway in my honest opinion AKKI Kenpo is simply EPAK + Equation Formula. There are also some filipino martial arts/Knife fighting elements (from guys like Hock Hockheim) and grappling elements (Gracie Jiu jitsu) being added as well. But the 'AKKI System' still has EPAK as a vast majority portion of it's base and is therefore not really a 'new system' yet. When the sytem is completed (only through 2nd Brown at this time) then we'll see how 'new' it is. Just a new way of looking at the 'old system' to me as it stands right now. This is evidenced by the signature 'timing patterns' that are simply master key movements taken from existing Parker System techniques. For example the "3 Beat" is found in Raking Mace and Twin Kimono already and the "7 Beat" is a graft of Raking Mace, Sword of Destruction and any technique from the (alternating maces, clipping the storm, darting mace, parting wings, etc. Family) The "new-ness", "revolutionary-ness", or "Innovative-ness" of the AKKI system will always be up for debate as long as people associate Paul Mills as a student of Ed Parker, Sr. But atleast, the AKKI members are actively examining their material and attempting to scrutinize and create new things. Although the current state of the outcome is questionable, the effort to progress and not stagnate must still be commended.


My Two Cents, AKKI Kenpo new method of teaching Ed Parker's Kenpo.

 

[KenpoEMT]

...in my honest opinion AKKI Kenpo is simply EPAK + Equation Formula. There are also some filipino martial arts/Knife fighting elements (from guys like Hock Hockheim) and grappling elements (Gracie Jiu jitsu) being added as well.

I don't think that is such a bad thing, really. The Filipino arts can kick some butt. I don't know to many EPAK guys/gals that could honestly take on a skilled grappler. Yes, everyone talks about how the 'principles and concepts' for ground fighting are contained within the EPAK curriculum, yet I have not seen any Kenpo practitioners that I would consider competent in grappling. [Let's see if I survive the flaming from all the master Kenpo grapplers on this forum...ugh:whip: ]

When the sytem is completed (only through 2nd Brown at this time) then we'll see how 'new' it is. Just a new way of looking at the 'old system' to me as it stands right now.

Honestly, I didn't know that the material only goes up to 2nd Brown. Well, everything new goes through a growing process. How would one test for 1st Degree Black or any of the higher ranks? Maybe it is a matter of transferring old rank in and then waiting for new material to be released. Do they test for 1st-3rd Black using the EPAK techniques?
Well, Brother John has posted here a couple of times; maybe, if he is willing, he could clarify this one issue. I imagine it isn't really a big deal; it's just a little confusing.

This is evidenced by the signature 'timing patterns' that are simply master key movements taken from existing Parker System techniques.

Yeah, I started a thread on 'timing drills' over in the KenpoTalk forum/Parker-Mills Lineage side. Apparently I wasn't supposed to do that... I received a hostile PM (maybe I just read it wrong, but the PM really freaked me out). I really like the concept of timing drills, and where I have applied them, they have been beneficial.
So, kudos to the Mill's family for that little piece of brilliance.

The "new-ness", "revolutionary-ness", or "Innovative-ness" of the AKKI system will always be up for debate as long as people associate Paul Mills as a student of Ed Parker, Sr.

I think that anything new goes through a period of time where others have a knee-jerk reaction against it just because it is new. You could be right, though. Maybe others respond negatively simply because they are of the opinion that these innovations could have had a home in EPAK; I don't know how true that is, just speculating. I really don't want anything to do with all the hostility.

But atleast, the AKKI members are actively examining their material and attempting to scrutinize and create new things. Although the current state of the outcome is questionable, the effort to progress and not stagnate must still be commended.

I agree with the sentences above in bold. I can't really comment on the one that is underlined.

Thanks for chiming in, James! I always enjoy new perspectives.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

I would love to be wrong on this issue. Could one really walk into an LTKKA camp without being a member of the LTKKA and be part of the experience?

I don't know if you're willing to, but would you share some of the highlights of this camp?

Yes, you could just walk in and participate, there were many NON-MEMBERS of the LTKKA there.

The akki has closed sessions to members only and is open by INVITATION only, they only have a few open seminars where anyone could attend. The Vegas camp is a closed camp from what I understand.

DarK LorD

 

[KenpoEMT]

Yes, you could just walk in and participate, there were many NON-MEMBERS of the LTKKA there.

No kidding? That is kewl. I was just looking at the 2006 Larry Tatum World Championship page, and I think I saw more than one Seminar Instructor who was not LTKKA (correct me if I'm wrong). That speaks to me of being very open-minded.

 

[KenpoEMT]

I spent some time in the AKKI and I've already been blasted by some AKKI members for my opinion.

We've had some comments from Brian (which I appreciate) on why he has joined the AKKI. I was wondering if you (James) would provide another perspective. If you don't mind my asking, why did you leave the AKKI? Was it only for the opinions stated below?

But here goes anyway in my honest opinion AKKI Kenpo is simply EPAK + Equation Formula.

But the 'AKKI System' still has EPAK as a vast majority portion of it's base and is therefore not really a 'new system' yet.

Just a new way of looking at the 'old system' to me as it stands right now.

I'd love to hear more from anyone who wishes to lend a greater understanding of the issue from either/both of the perspectives.

Why did you join?
and/or
Why did you leave?

 

[KenpoEMT]

Maybe this is why there isn't a 'Primer' or introduction to AKKI Kenpo. Perhaps this is the reason that there have not been any explanations as to where the AKKI is headed to (aside from the fact that no one is obligated to explain anything on this forum):

Another difference is the use of universal blocks or open ended triangles that are ambulatory. Not just stationary or like in Long 1 where the blocks are done interchangeably. It's more than just a double factor. It lays the foundational motion for our knife material, club material and how to execute them. Just with Form 1 in it's sequence, I can teach a student who to embryonically move a knife with our motion and even more explosively defend against it with the ambulatory open ended triangles. It just does not teach universal blocs but different height, width and depth zones as well on diagonal angles as well as horizontal and vertical. It also teaches the student how to block using directional harmony, opposing forces, and marriage of gravity as well as reverse marriage of gravity- hitting/blocking/striking, while your dropping into your stance or settling.

The other thing it teaches a student is the different levels in height and bracing of the same block. The form includes an extended outward block done at different height/dimensional levels in order to teach the student the progression of a block as well as giving them the tools to cover themselves from a roundhouse punch, straight, uppercut, hook, overhead and combinations.

Also it lays the foundation of part of our internalization patterns. Part of that includes D1 and D2 flexion and extension upper and lower case. It does not unlock how to move/apply them it just PNF's (proprioceptor neuromuscular facilitation)the stretch in the muscle movement. This really won't matter to much I would guess because this is where the x factor lies in the difference of AKKI motion. I can't explain this. It must be seen and felt. Also know that this is a partial list. I just spent 7 hours teaching form one on Saturday and just scratched the surface as they, if they post, can attest to.

When you pull a gun,shoot, hit a target like Mr. Mills did faster than anyone, you need to learn very precise motion for your body to duplicate it every time over and over without tearing it up. These enlightenments gave way to an entire different way of moving the IKKA material. Mr. Parker would watch him shoot over and over - intrigued by it. Telling him which principles he was using and how he was compounding and grafting them. As well as the many altercations using techniques that were not as effective than others and finding different techniques with the motion learned from shooting and fighting for real.

It's not something we particularly advertise out of the gate. We just want the motion taught so when they want to learn it and are ready for it later down the road, it's not foreign motion to them.
Ambulatory just means moving and what I meant by interchanging is in Long 1 the blocks and strikes are moving forward while the other is moving back in some fashion. An ambulatory Open ended triangle means that it's moving rather than stationary.
I'm quite sure you know many of these things I listed. Again, it's about how early we begin teaching it. We have a philosophical difference of when things should be taught. No problem. Also too, exclusive AKKI motion is taught or frameworked. The young student may not realize it or see it but it's all there. This I can't explain but there is a noticable difference between how you and I will execute the same motion. Rank has nothing to do with it. It's in the system and it must be experienced. I can't write about it. I can say explosive and I refer to a firecracker while you say explosive and you refer to a stick of dynamite. Both explode but on very different levels. Both need to be experienced to better understand.

 

[KenpoEMT]

Ok, I'll go first.

I get 5 things from this persons post about AKKI Kenpo:

1. Different way of moving
2. Philosophical difference
3. Exclusive Motion
4. Can't explain
5. Must be Experienced

1. If AKKI Kenpo executes the same material as the IKKA/LTKKA but in a vastly different manner, are the two schools of thought actually performing the same material? If it is the same but vastly different, then it is not the same. Okay, makes sense to me.
2. Philosophical Difference: I understand that in this post the poster was addressing a philosophical difference with another poster; however, doesn't this then beg the question of whether or not there is a philosophical difference between the 'old' way and the 'new' way? I honestly don't know enough about the development of the AKKI and it's material to comment one way or another on philosophical divergence. Perhaps someone who has experienced both, yet remains with the 'new' way, would be willing to comment.
3. I honestly don't think that there is such a thing as exclusive motion. It may be exclusive for a time, but it will not remain that way. Motion belongs to a body, not to an association. I understand that certain things within the organization (that were developed there) are considered as rightfully belonging to the association. A problem arises when one person learns the information and then leaves; the information goes too.
4. If the new motion concepts truly cannot be explained then they are unique.
5. Luckily, these concepts can be experienced. I recall that Master Parker said, "To see is to understand, but to feel is to know." -or something along that line- If it is new and can only be known through experience, then it is progressive.

So, in regard to shaping the future, the AKKI seems to have developed an entirely new structure of Kenpo.

Comments?

 

[KenpoEMT]

...new structure of Kenpo.

Perhaps I should clarify that in my mind the Law of the Fist equates to Motion. Therefore, when I say "...a new structure of Kenpo" I am not referring to techniques and forms, but I am referring to a new structure of Motion. A new way of studying, learning, and applying Motion.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Having actively studied over 20 forms of combat for the last 19 years and holding Black Belts in 5 of them I feel qualified to state.....There is NO NEW MOTION LOL. The motions I execute, be it in Kung-Fu, Tae Kwon Do, Ju Jitsu, Parker Kenpo, Mills Kenpo, Wrestling, Jeet Kune Do, Judo, etc. are all the same when analyzed. Example. In kenpo I learned a 'hooking grab (crane beak)', a 'cross check', a hook kick, and an inward crescent kick. These "pieces of motion" are all used in Kenpo to set up strikes and grapples on varying levels. Now if I go to the ground and have an opponent in my guard and execute a (1) 'hooking grab' with my right hand to their neck (2) a 'cross check' to their right arm with my left hand (3) a hook kick to their right leg with my left leg and (4) an inward crescent kick to their left hip with my right leg (crescent motion hitting with my calf or thigh) I would have what the brazilians call a FLOWER SWEEP in their Jiu-Jitsu. Same motion different ways of doing it and different reasons. In short all the new systems can keep popping up but the "motions" will remain the same just new philosophies on when and how to do them and what parts of the body to do them on.

My two cents.

 

[KenpoEMT]

Having actively studied over 20 forms of combat for the last 19 years and holding Black Belts in 5 of them I feel qualified to state.....

That's a heck of alot of experience!

There is NO NEW MOTION LOL.

I'm afraid that I have not communicated effectively.
I agree with you whole-heartedly! How could there be 'new' motion introduced to the human race after billions of years of evolution (or a few thousand years after creation, depending upon whom you may ask)?
What I meant to refer to was a new methodology of studying and learning. While the motions may not change they may always be viewed from perspectives that have not, until this point, been considered.
You have more experience with the AKKI's methodology than I do, and you have stated that it is effectively 'old' EPAK done in a (maybe not so) 'new' way. I am not so much concerned with the techniques and forms as I am with what seems to be a new perspective of the concepts of motion itself. I could very well be wrong about the 'newness' of this perspective. In fact, I am not very clear as to the completeness of the view that the perspective takes.
Were you introduced to a new way of looking at motion during your time with the AKKI?

The motions I execute, be it in Kung-Fu, Tae Kwon Do, Ju Jitsu, Parker Kenpo, Mills Kenpo, Wrestling, Jeet Kune Do, Judo, etc. are all the same when analyzed. Example. In kenpo I learned a 'hooking grab (crane beak)', a 'cross check', a hook kick, and an inward crescent kick. These "pieces of motion" are all used in Kenpo to set up strikes and grapples on varying levels. Now if I go to the ground and have an opponent in my guard and execute a (1) 'hooking grab' with my right hand to their neck (2) a 'cross check' to their right arm with my left hand (3) a hook kick to their right leg with my left leg and (4) an inward crescent kick to their left hip with my right leg (crescent motion hitting with my calf or thigh) I would have what the brazilians call a FLOWER SWEEP in their Jiu-Jitsu. Same motion different ways of doing it and different reasons. In short all the new systems can keep popping up but the "motions" will remain the same just new philosophies on when and how to do them and what parts of the body to do them on.

I agree.

Great post, by the way!

 

[KenpoEMT]

Yeah, I started a thread on 'timing drills' over in the KenpoTalk forum/Parker-Mills Lineage side. Apparently I wasn't supposed to do that... I received a hostile PM (maybe I just read it wrong, but the PM really freaked me out). I really like the concept of timing drills, and where I have applied them, they have been beneficial.
So, kudos to the Mill's family for that little piece of brilliance.

I made a public statement here about a PM that I received; I have been able to confirm some information about the individual who sent the PM.

I read the message as having been hostile. I have found that my initial reaction to the PM was wrong.

Because the statement that I made was public, it is only right that the apology be public as well.

I was wrong; I apologize.

I still feel that the internet is a dangerous place, and I am not comfortable at all transmitting too much private information over it. Two aquaintances of mine have had very, very negative events occur in their lives involving the internet. I like to think that I have learned lessons from their experiences.

 

[Brother John]

Having actively studied over 20 forms of combat for the last 19 years and holding Black Belts in 5 of them.

Hey James, how's it going?

I've got a three quick questions, just things I was curious about...
The arts you mention and the time in the arts seems pretty swift, so it got me to thinking these interrelated questions:
1. Who was your AKKI instructor?
2. How long had you been IN the AKKI?
3. How many of the Vegas camps have you made it too?

Thanks bro, just wanting to better understanding of where you are coming from.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

There are also some filipino martial arts/Knife fighting elements (from guys like Hock Hockheim).

I was also curious why you think that our knife material comes from Hockheim, whom is in no way associated with us.
I'd never come across this opinion before; it's got me curious.
thanks


Your Brother
John

 

[KenpoEMT]

Glad to see you post again, Brother John. I realize that I have gotten off to a clumsy start with this poll (not clarifying my purpose, and unintentionally insulting Mr. Elmer). I want to assure you that the poll was not created in hostility. If nothing beneficial can be gained from this poll then I would rather see it covered in dust in the archives somewhere. I welcome your opinions.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

1. AKKI Instructor was Bruce Smith.

2. Was in the AKKI for one year in 2001, tried to "come back" this year but was told I had to drop all dealings with other non-AKKI kenpoists so I declined (I'm not interested in training with just one group or any KENPOLITICS, I train too many systems for that nonsense)

3. Didn't come to any Vegas Camps.

4. Yeah 20 systems, 5 Black Belts and 19 years seems swift doesn't it? That's what happens when you study multiple systems simultaneously instead of only dealing with one exclusively (see answer number 2)

5. A friend of mine that was actually the owner of the AKKI club we were jointly starting in Catonsville, MD (2001) confers that Mr. Mills works with Mr. Hockheim on knife and stick material and integrating Filipino martial arts concepts into american Kenpo (which I think is a great idea).

6. Why is it that when I (or anyone else for that matter) posts an opinion of Mills Kenpo that isn't "Mills Kenpo is the greatest" does some AKKI member go, "James when were you in the AKKI?" Don't start debating who did and didn't train, debate the points mentioned if you feel a debate is necessary. Just don't follow up with the whole bashing "you never trained with us" crap please. I don't feel like having a Kenponet repeat, where I have to post school certificates and all that non-sense to shut people up, have them 'investigate' and have AKKI members e-mailing me and calling my cell phone again.

7. Exactly how are those questions inter-related? (1) Length of training--Who was your AKKI instructor? (2) Length of training--When were you IN AKKI? (3) Length of Training--Did you come to any vegas camps? Doesn't seem like they are related at all unless the AKKI questions only relate to each other, seems like an opening to discredit-flame-n-bash again just like on Kenponet 2 months back. But I don't expect that from you John as you've always been very respectful from what I've read, I'm just waiting for the "clean up man" to come in and bash. But i'm not going to waste my time like on Kenponet.

Respectfully,
James

P.S. John, you have (had) my e-mail address we can chat anytime, I'm new to this forum and don't always catch the posts that respond to mine. How is your son (if you remember the pics we exchanged)? Forgive my "sharpness" above, but I'm in no mood for the usual flame wars that follow posts like these.

 

[Brother John]

1. AKKI Instructor was Bruce Smith.

2. Was in the AKKI for one year in 2001, tried to "come back" this year but was told I had to drop all dealings with other non-AKKI kenpoists so I declined (I'm not interested in training with just one group or any KENPOLITICS, I train too many systems for that nonsense)

3. Didn't come to any Vegas Camps.

4. Yeah 20 systems, 5 Black Belts and 19 years seems swift doesn't it? That's what happens when you study multiple systems simultaneously instead of only dealing with one exclusively (see answer number 2)

5. A friend of mine that was actually the owner of the AKKI club we were jointly starting in Catonsville, MD (2001) confers that Mr. Mills works with Mr. Hockheim on knife and stick material and integrating Filipino martial arts concepts into american Kenpo (which I think is a great idea).

6. Why is it that when I (or anyone else for that matter) posts an opinion of Mills Kenpo that isn't "Mills Kenpo is the greatest" does some AKKI member go, "James when were you in the AKKI?" Don't start debating who did and didn't train, debate the points mentioned if you feel a debate is necessary. Just don't follow up with the whole bashing "you never trained with us" crap please. I don't feel like having a Kenponet repeat, where I have to post school certificates and all that non-sense to shut people up, have them 'investigate' and have AKKI members e-mailing me and calling my cell phone again.

7. Exactly how are those questions inter-related? (1) Length of training--Who was your AKKI instructor? (2) Length of training--When were you IN AKKI? (3) Length of Training--Did you come to any vegas camps? Doesn't seem like they are related at all unless the AKKI questions only relate to each other, seems like an opening to discredit-flame-n-bash again just like on Kenponet 2 months back. But I don't expect that from you John as you've always been very respectful from what I've read, I'm just waiting for the "clean up man" to come in and bash. But i'm not going to waste my time like on Kenponet.

Respectfully,
James

P.S. John, you have (had) my e-mail address we can chat anytime, I'm new to this forum and don't always catch the posts that respond to mine. How is your son (if you remember the pics we exchanged)? Forgive my "sharpness" above, but I'm in no mood for the usual flame wars that follow posts like these.

Hey James..

I'll reply to each in turn:
1: Mr. Smith, from what I know of him, is a good person. I believe it was my first instructor in the AKKI, Mr. Rogert Taylor, who played some role in Mr. Smith entering the association. I don't know the whole story behind that, but I recall my instructor saying something to that effect.

2: The fact is....that's pretty much the standard expectation in the AKKI from what I know. It's not so much 'other associations' as it is 'other arts'. Though most Kenpo associations/schools practice/teach a version of Kenpo that is very closely related to what we do in the AKKI, there is a marked difference and that difference matters. The issue isn't politics though. (But I can understand why it would seem that it was) I've talked to Mr. Mills on the phone about this and he made it quite clear to me: his expectation is that when people come into the association that they focus their efforts and attention on aquiring and assimilating the lessons that AKKI Kenpo has to give. (neither Mr. Mills, nor any of his students, nor...from my experience...anyone in the whole association call the art "Mills Kenpo", he doesn't want us to learn 'him', he wants us to learn Kenpo Karate.) Mr. Mills feels, and the association members tend to agree, that the motion is pretty specific and particular to our Kenpo and that when you are trying to ingrain them they get convoluted and confused when you try to mix them with the modes and methods of motion others systems. Therefore keeping the student from really exhibiting that particular flavor of motion that makes our stuff work, and work well. Also: It's a general expectation in order to ward off dabblers. I'm NOT trying to say you are a dabbler James, but you know the type.... the association/art/dojo butterfly; the jack of all trades master of none. Mr. Mills related this to me with the concept of "rifling".... of focusing in on one path of achievement so that you gain both bredth and depth in one thing...maximizing your efforts and thereby making the best use of your time and the time of those trying to help you gain that bredth and depth of understanding and achievement.

3. Yeah, I've not made it to NEARLY enough of the camps myself, not NEARLY!!!!!! ((Money & Time: Two things I wish I had more of.))

The Vegas camps are where the newest material is taught. It's where you get a better understanding of what Mr. Mills, the board of directors, regional reps....etc, the seniors of the system expect of our motion, skill, knowledge, understanding....etc. Believe me, I'm missing out by not making every one of them, I'm missing a great deal. You've missed out too, even more so. (no offense, but it's what I think) IF you never made it to a Vegas Camp (which isn't always so easy for those of us East of the Continental divide....and You are MUCH further East than I) then your concept of what the AKKI is and does is pretty incomplete, only drawing from a small exposure and partial pool of experiences from w/in the art/association. The camps are where your fire for the art is really pumped up too. Have you ever seen Mr. Mills move in person? If not, you're really missing a treat. Also: Have you ever seen Mr. Jacob, Mr. Connolly, Mr. Wheaton, Mr. Thomson, Mr. Herman, Mr. .....OK.....you get the point, the seniors in the art.....have you seen them move in person? Again: It's very hard to get a feel or understanding for what the AKKI is moving toward and what it is if you've not had such experiences. I'm NOT trying to discredit you or your opinion, but things must be put into perspective I think.

4. Yeah, that's probably kept you pretty busy assimilating all of those different things. I've got nothing against anyone who wants to cross train... it's got it's merrits, but I find that there's already so much on my plate just with trying to work on one art and gain some depth in it.
You must have had a TON of freetime over the last two decades!
Must be nice.

5. Two of my insturctors I've had over the last seven years (almost 7 years actually) in the AKKI have been first generation students of Mr. Mills. Both of these instructors were/are the Regional Reps for their areas, both were/are certified to teach the highest level of knife curriculum that was/is out there: They disagree with your friends hypothesis of Mr. Mills working with or gaining from (or even knowing) Mr. Hockheim. I've spoken to Mr. Mills about his development of the knife curriculum.... what he said also differs greatly with your friends hypothesis. I'm not about to suggest in any manner that Mr. Mills was being dishonest with me.....he's got no reason to be. In learning/studying the knife curriculum myself...the motions are SO VERY in sync with the underlying ways that our Kenpo curriculum in the AKKI moves that it really has a deep coherency w/in the context of AKKI Kenpo. So even IF Mr. Mills gained knife curriculum from Mr. Hockheim, then apparently Mr. Hockheim first studied the way we move Deeply and for some time first in order to 'help' Mr. Mills create the knife/club curriculum that he did. ((which I know he didn't))
One of my students extensive experience in Escrima/Kali, he says that there are several similarities in the way our club curriculum 'moves' to the PMA's, but that ours...again....adhere's to the way that our emptyhand work goes.
If I may ask, what level of the knife curriculum is your ex-AKKI instructor certified to teach??? (Obviously you were Not certified in the Level 1 knife/club work... just because those certification tests are done at the Vegas Camps under the watchful eye of Mr. Mills and the board of directors)

6. Why is it that when I (or anyone else for that matter) posts an opinion of Mills Kenpo that isn't "Mills Kenpo is the greatest" does some AKKI member go, "James when were you in the AKKI?" Don't start debating who did and didn't train, debate the points mentioned if you feel a debate is necessary. Just don't follow up with the whole bashing "you never trained with us" crap please. I don't feel like having a Kenponet repeat, where I have to post school certificates and all that non-sense to shut people up, have them 'investigate' and have AKKI members e-mailing me and calling my cell phone again.

James, you (in this thread and others elsewhere) are making some pretty sweeping generalizations on what AKKI Kenpo is and isn't, I don't think it's out of question at all to inquire into your basis of experience for that comparison. In fact, I think it's most respsonsible to do so in order to put everything into perspective and to have a better understanding of where you are coming from. Without this knowledge it's a VERY incomplete picture.

For instance: I believe (could be wrong, I'm no historian) that in 2001 the AKKI curriculum was revised up through Purple Belt only and that past Purple the student had to learn/practice the IKKA version of the techs/forms/sets until they too could be revised at later times. Well, then you missed out on ALL of the new innovations and lessons of the 20 Blue Belt techniques, the 20 Green Belt techniques, the 20 1st Brown Belt Techniques and the 20 2nd Brown techniques that are coming out now. You'd have missed out on (I think) centerline set, trapping set, maybe even trap & roll drill...etc. Not only would you have missed these techs/forms/sets/drills from Blue-2nd Brown ((more than 1/2 of the AKKI curriculum)) but you'd have missed the camps in which the inner workings of and insights on these things were passed along.

I'm NOT saying that you aren't entitled to your opinion regarding the AKKI, you most certainly are and I don't begrudge you that one bit. None. But the people who read what you are saying the AKKI is and is all about really have very little to go on and must therefore assume that your opinion is close to home; when really....there's gaps and a limited exposure on your part from which to draw. I hope that doesn't make you feel insulted. It's not intended that way. I've got a lot of respect for you James; obviously with that many Black Belts in that many years you are a dedicated/devoted martial artist!!!! But in making an annalysis/summation of what you believe the AKKI is and is not, how we move and how we don't, background is VERY VERY important and must be considered. I'd never say "You never trained with us", but I will say that your exposure to what the AKKI is and is all about wasn't/isn't that deep and didn't exist for very long at all. Seems just a fact to me. You needn't display the certificate of competency that your instructor drafted for you to prove anything, I believe you...that you trained for a year with an AKKI instructor on the East Coast; I don't feel that's in any way in question. Nor do I think you should worry about shutting up anyone nor anyone trying to shut you up. I just wanted us all to have a clearer understanding for where you are coming from.

7. Exactly how are those questions inter-related? (1) Length of training--Who was your AKKI instructor? (2) Length of training--When were you IN AKKI? (3) Length of Training--Did you come to any vegas camps? Doesn't seem like they are related at all unless the AKKI questions only relate to each other, seems like an opening to discredit-flame-n-bash again just like on Kenponet 2 months back. But I don't expect that from you John as you've always been very respectful from what I've read, I'm just waiting for the "clean up man" to come in and bash. But i'm not going to waste my time like on Kenponet.

Like I've just gone over, those questions are directly related to a background in understanding your opinion and your depth of knowledge insight into the AKKI. Here and elsewhere you've given kind of an "AKKI Kenpo is nothing but....." this that and the other. That's ok. But knowing your depth and length of experience w/in that system that you're evaluating is absolutely crucial to drawing any conclusions. I'd ask you the same things if you were evaluating Aikido, Ninjutsu or Wha-Lum Gung-fu.
I've got NO interest in bashing!
I've got NO interest in Flames!
GOD KNOWS there's been far more than enough of both here, on KenpNet on KenpoTalk.....etc. etc. etc. It does NO ONE any good whatsoever. I hold absolutely NO ill will toward you at all. Please know at least that about me.

No forgiveness needed, you didn't offend me bro! Seriously. I just hope that by making the points I have I've not offended you. Yes, I think I still do have your E-mail....as you do mine. Please feel free to contact me whenever you like. I encourage you in your efforts in the martial arts.... no matter the style nor association. I'd think that the bredth of your knowledge could give insights into many things...and I look forward to continued contact/interaction with you as friends.

oh....David's doing GREAT! Just recently (maybe 5 weeks ago) started him up in Gymnastics.......He's LOVING it!!! They created this little "student Manual" that both explains and shows pictures of the different moves/exercises/drills that they do and will test him over. I take him down to my Kenpo school and we use the mats... I have him 'teach' me what he just learned the last week.... makes him really think about it harder. When he goes to his classes and studys/trains in the gymnastics...he pays even more attention so that he can not only learn to do what the are doing....but also so he can 'teach' his old man.
HA!!! Pretty fun. I love rollin round on the mat!

Your Brother
John
Please feel free to E-Mail me with any thoughts/concerns.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Hey James, how's it going?

I've got a three quick questions, just things I was curious about...
The arts you mention and the time in the arts seems pretty swift, so it got me to thinking these interrelated questions:
1. Who was your AKKI instructor?
2. How long had you been IN the AKKI?
3. How many of the Vegas camps have you made it too?

Thanks bro, just wanting to better understanding of where you are coming from.

Your Brother
John

Seems ironic that you're asking, at least in nature, of some of the questions asked of you before. Would you mind listing your;

Experience in the akki and prior martial arts, ie. years studied, rank aquired, etc..

How much time do you have with an akki certified instructor on a monthly basis?

How are you getting the new material being as you haven't been to that many Vegas camps?


DarK LorD

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

As usual you are very respectful in your posts which is why I asked you to forgive my "sharpness" as it wasn't really for you but for your "compatriots" that have given me and my students much undue grief in the last couple months for me stating what is my HONEST OPINION.

Glad to hear your son is great, Gymnastics huh? Believe it or not I tried that too but it just wasn't combat oriented enough to keep me interested. Keep that ball rolling with him gymnastics has many health benefits!

"But the people who read what you are saying the AKKI is and is all about really have very little to go on and must therefore assume that your opinion is close to home; when really....there's blaring gaps" -- Brother John

The people who read will always draw their on conclusions and I understand that you have a vested interest in making sure those conclusions as accurate or as close to the AKKI's definition of accurate as possible (don't misread my tone I'm simply stating it's a matter of your devotion, and opinion and MARKETING to blunt. The AKKI's kenpo has to be percieved as vastly different and 'improved' or there is no draw for people making an educated choice--that's basic marketing strategy). But they should also have enough sense to read the part where I state "In my opinion"

I've also had a little more exposure to AKKI Kenpo since 2001 than I've let on. I maintain my "friends" that are open to cross train with me as long as I don't spread their "secrets" with anyone else and I respect that and don't. Of course I'm aware that that's out of line with AKKI policy but I still throw that into the category of politics despite your explanation, I'm sorry my friend. I read the part of your post where you mentioned leaving other kenpo associations out so as not to convolute the AKKI lessons and I must say that's nonsense (not your opinion or that that's Mr. Mills belief). What I mean by nonsense is that I have more experience crosstraining than most (not all) martial artists I personally know. It has never, ever convoluted any of my movement skills or my knowledge base. I managed to earn my first Dan level (I say level because in Kung-Fu there isn't a 'Dan') in Tae Kwon Do, Kung Fu and Ju-Jitsu at nearly the same time in 1998 right before I started EPAK. These systems are VASTLY different yet I was able to keep the knowledge seperate where it needed to be and integrated where it helped out. So I've seen many of the 'new' sets, some of the 'new' techniques and a lot of the drills and I'll be blunt from my experience. My experience is based on the level of knowledge of my friends/crosstraining partners and is as always MY HONEST OPINION.

(1) A lot of the drills are nearly identical to drills from other systems I've studied. The timing drills I've been exposed to do exist in EPAK techniques already the way I learned them. Several have debated this point and I simply state "you must didn't learn the EPAK techniques in the manner I did." I can provide explanations on demand as necessary.
(2) A lot of the knife and stick work is FMA plain and simple, yes it fits in with Kenpo's hand work well. It usually does, ask any of 'Huk" Planas' guys about that. FMA and Kenpo integrate almost seemlessly. So for someone experienced with escrima/kali to state that it works right in with the empty hand stuff is quite plausible. From my experience with FMA it always does so that does not detract from the statement that it is FMA. It's not so much DEVELOPED as it is INTEGRATED.
(3) With my knowledge of the EQUATION FORMULA and EPAK I'll paraphrase Mr. Planas 'I defy anybody to show me a new technique, all they are going to show me is a new ending somebody made up and I'll show them 5 endings they've never seen' 'Flashing Swords' - Start delayed sword, delete kick, suffix middle sequence of Bow-of-compulsion extension with adjusted angles. 'Swords of Fury' - Start sword of destruction, delete kick and chop, suffix last tree hand strikes from Five Swords w/ the extension, delete the ending kick of extension. Those are two examples and I'm not going any further due to respect for not spreading the AKKI knowledge I have with Non-AKKI members accessing this board. I don't like the 'politics' of that, but I took an oath and am a man of my word.
(4) The 'offensive techniques' are a "new way of TEACHING" what the freestyles should have taught if people actually taught them everywhere. There is also alot of Kung Fu/Wing Chun/Jeet Kune Do trapping integrated for the entries and counter-blows. Nothing wrong with that but it is what it is as they say. This stuff isn't just coming out of thin air as is often suggested. It isn't as much being DEVELOPED as it is being INTEGRATED from other systems. Nothing wrong with that but give credit where it's due.
(5) On the "Hockheim comment" I have only my friends' word and as such will be logged as 'rumor' and rightfully so. But see above statements on FMA and let the readers be the judges of their own opinions.
(6) Please tell me (this was not mentioned previous) where the grappling knowledge was DEVELOPED from. I will blatantly have to explain where the Ju-Jitsu/Wrestling is in there and that is it in fact INTEGRATED not DEVELOPED.
(7) In short from my martial arts experience, without needing to ask anyone else but just from MY OWN training experiences in the 20+ systems I haven't seen anything "new" from the AKKI material. Everytime someone shows me something "new" I can reference them to books, videos, and arts that precede the date of the "new development." I stand firmly that the innovation is more in the 'integration' of what is useful from other arts than from the 'development' of new material. This is what I have seen and continue to see as people show me "new things" as the years go by and I continue to go into the archives and show them how old their new stuff really is. I think that is a great direction to take Kenpo but I give credit where it's due. When I teach Kenpo and I add something that came from Ju-Jitsu or Kung-Fu, etc. I label it as such. I don't say, we developed this...I flat out state where it came from. I see that alot of the deveopments are just integrations. Maybe someone IS actually developing these things that just coincidentally happen to be identical to things from other systems without knowing it. But given common logistics, the short span of a human lifetime, the vast availability of knowledge and the 'likeness' of human bodies I don't think that is the most plausible conclusion. And as always that is my HONEST OPINION and no matter how well thought out it just may be wrong. We will see eventually, perhaps when someone finally shows me something TRULY NEW. Hopefully there is someone reading this thread that has around the same level of crosstraining I do and can chime in with more knowledge and thoughts.

"Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, and add that which is your own" -- Bruce Lee