Aikido hate

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Hornviper, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I've sat in to watch classes at three different aikido schools. Two of the three were impressive. One was not. From that brief experience, I saw two thirds of the aikido schools were impressive vs. one third that was not. I would say that the way most aikido is trained is not dumb.
     
  2. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    That would be a fair summation of all styles really.
     
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  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You dont understand competition and the complexity of proccessing the information gained from it.

    So you are sort of right with your statement but also sort of wrong.
     
  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    There are martial arts that work better than others. I cant just do TKD and think i can compete in wrestling.
     
  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Aiki is so hard a concept? Because of it mystical nature.

     
  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Which will give you the equivilent level of skill development.
     
  7. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is not conservative. So you can fight a guy who you are better than or is also not fighting conservatively. But if you matched a high percentage fighter of equal skill you would get mangled.

    You will probably find that reflected in your BJJ for MMA where you start to play safe and wont jump off mount for that arm bar for example.
     
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  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    One Aikido black belt was my student. One time I gave a public demo, when I threw him, I could feel that he did a jump to help my throw. I asked him why, he told me that all Aikido training involve such cooperation.

    All demo are 1/2 fake and 1/2 real. The 1/2 fake is your opponent gives you that opportunity. The 1/2 real is you have to finish it. If your opponent helps you to finish, that's 100% fake by definition.
     
  9. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    Apples and oranges.
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    We have some folks on here who are pretty knowledgeable about Japanese usage. Maybe one of them can help us out.
     
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, when the context being trained for is self-defense, competition doesn't replicate it any better than well-committed "attacks" in the dojo. Both are approximations. Each has advantages and disadvantages. For me, in the dojo, I can get people to deliver specific attacks to train them, as well as to test them. The guy in the other corner isn't necessarily going to give me what I need to test against. But he will be more surprising than someone I train with all the time, and he's unlikely to wuss out on his attack (unless he just sucks).
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    From what I've heard, the sword skills in Ueshiba's art now are not good (I don't know enough to make that judgment). Without good sword training to back them, they wouldn't be likely to stay solid. Besides that, swinging your arm like there's a sword in it would make a particularly awkward strike, so I think they approximated the motion, while trying to get as close as they could to the strikes in question.
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    If that's what he was taught, something was missed. In Ueshiba's Aikido, the high/jumping breakfalls actually are for the benefit of the uke, not the audience. They take pressure off joints earlier and give the uke more time to create a softer fall. There's less of that in NGA, simply because of the difference in how we execute techniques. There are only a few places where launching into a fall is useful.

    Now, in demonstration, they often amp that up a bit (actually, many grappling schools seem to jump into falls in demo's).
     
  14. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    I have been for my teacher's demo partner for many years. I have not even once to "jump into fall". Even today, I still don't know how to do that.

     
  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    Just find this clip online. At 1.29 and 1.49, the Judo guy uses leg skill "cut" to take his opponent down.

     
  16. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Senior Master

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    I sometimes have trouble with this technique. I find if I don't put my foot higher than he had then they don't fall but stumble back and struggle to catch their balance.
     
  17. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    If you don't control your opponent's upper leg, his knee joint is still free and he can escape out of your "cut". This is why sometime to just control your opponent's lower leg is not good enough. All he needs is just to bend his leg at his knee joint, your cutting leg will go below his knee.
     
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    No. If you are talking a full contact competition the attacks are not aproximations of attacks. They are attacks.

    This sort of misunderstanding is half the issue.

     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Not if it is the person and not the style.
     
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  20. Psilent Knight

    Psilent Knight Blue Belt

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    I half agree and half disagree. In certain sporting contexts with rules I agree that certain martial arts will work better than others in that setting. In an open bareknuckle, knockdown rules competition I think ITF Taekwondo would fare better than Aikido for example. But in a no rules altercation outside of the dojo or sporting setting then it becomes LESS about the art and MORE about the individuals who are engaged in the altercation.

    And vice versa of course. But if a TKD practitioner and a wrestler get involved in a physical altercation with each other and one of them soundly beats the other then that person is a better overall fighter than the guy who got his a-- kicked. I want to reiterate that it is more than just a particular martial art. Much, much more. There are physical attributes that MUST be taken into consideration as well as non physical attributes such as aggression, pain tolerance and fighting experience.

    BJ Penn, who is a BJJ specialist, recently got his butt kicked by Yair Rodriguez whose background is TKD. Most uneducated mma fans would have the whole world believing that BJJ is the best thing since sliced bread and that a BJJ specialist would beat a TKD specialist 8 or 9 times out of ten. But Penn lost and lost badly. Does that mean BJJ is worthless and TKD is a better art than BJJ? Of course not. Rodriguez was simply the better fighter and there are REASONS that he was a better fighter. Most of those reasons have to do with Rodriguez having better physical attributes (due to age difference no doubt) and being successful at fighting HIS fight instead of fighting BJ's fight.

    In the fight between BJ and Rodriguez it was not TKD being better than BJJ and neither did BJJ lose to TKD. BJ Penn (as an individual fighter) lost to Yair Rodriguez (as an individual fighter).

    Take Care and Have Good One Today,
    Osu!
     
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