achilles95
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Interested to hear opinions on the effectiveness of aikido in a real-life fight scenario.
Aikido: Effectiveness on the street
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bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
For somebody with a lot of training and experience, I think Aikido would work very well. It's defense-oriented, gives lots of options, and can be escalated easily to really destructive stuff.
I think, though, that it has a steeper learning curve for effectiveness than many other martial arts. For that reason, I'd most strongly recommend Aikido to folks who already have proficiency in another art.
I think, though, that it has a steeper learning curve for effectiveness than many other martial arts. For that reason, I'd most strongly recommend Aikido to folks who already have proficiency in another art.
Monadnock
2nd Black Belt
I think lessons from the first class can be effective. I had a guy run at me from behind, so I stepped and turned off the line and he stumbled past me.
Depends on the student, and also how the class is geared.
Depends on the student, and also how the class is geared.
charyuop
Black Belt
blah blah blah...sorry, but I see new threads like this one everyday in every forum.
My Sensei's and my Senpai's very effective!!! Mine? Effective to create a couple of laughters, but I would be probably in the same condition in TKD, Karate or Kenpo.
Read between the lines and you will have the answr hee hee.
My Sensei's and my Senpai's very effective!!! Mine? Effective to create a couple of laughters, but I would be probably in the same condition in TKD, Karate or Kenpo.
Read between the lines and you will have the answr hee hee.
Do a search in this sub-forum for this very same topic. You'll find several threads devoted to it.
"Aikido: Effectiveness on the street"
My opinion is that anyone who is trying to wrist lock or flip a large chunk of concrete has more to worry about then the effectiveness of there wrist locks and throws on said slab of concrete
My other opinion is that that is as meaningful of a answer as any on this sort of question. These things cannot be tested, just thought about really hard. And that is not evidence.
My opinion is that anyone who is trying to wrist lock or flip a large chunk of concrete has more to worry about then the effectiveness of there wrist locks and throws on said slab of concrete
My other opinion is that that is as meaningful of a answer as any on this sort of question. These things cannot be tested, just thought about really hard. And that is not evidence.
charyuop
Black Belt
Let me correct you. They can be tested....always that we are both willing to have some injuries of any kind.
The real problem of testing it is in the errors. It is hard to try to be relaxed in the whole fight thus injuries can happen. My Senpai was telling me once he was free sparring Aikido with another shodan (not sure about their rankings back then). The other guy made a little mistake to try and resist a technique instead of flowing with it (doesn't matter how much you train, it is in human nature resisting and in a fight/spar at least once it will happen) and his knee popped instantly.
The only real way to test it would be going to a bar and starting a fight, but since you had never test it before you would have 50% chance to get an a$$ whopped and 50% that you manage to save your a$$.
There are proves in the past that Aikido works, but proves coming from great Sensei who actually had to fight alot. It doesn't matter how hard you train, the only way to know if "your" Aikido works or not outside of the Dojo is by having a real fight and see how you react to it.
Personally I like thinking my Aikido doesn't work and don't need to try it
It's still artificial in that your mindset is different. You walk in prepared to fight and looking for a fight.
OP
achilles95
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Interesting.. I tried aikido for a while and I do agree it has a much steeper learning curve than other arts - it seems like it would take a long time to be able to use it effectively in a fight situation.
Like any other art the more yo train the better you get at it.
Do I think that a person with a few months in the art might be able to defend themslefs better than a person with a few months in Kempo or karate: wellagain it depends on the person but as a rule NO. Now if that same person had, say, 5 years in training that would be a different thing and I would then say YES
Do I think that a person with a few months in the art might be able to defend themslefs better than a person with a few months in Kempo or karate: wellagain it depends on the person but as a rule NO. Now if that same person had, say, 5 years in training that would be a different thing and I would then say YES
Yari
Master Black Belt
Yes, you can defends yourself by using Aikido principles/techniques.
The techniques that Aikido use are not difficult to learn and have no more a step learning curve than other styles. But learning the principles behind the techniques takes longer. But I think this is just the same for other styles too.
But I agree, shearch the forum, and you'll see this being asked and answered so many times, a pattern will evolve.... ;-)
/Yari
I would agree with that
or train in it for the art it is, but dont depend on it as a SD skill in your first few years of study unless you choos eone of the harder styles (yoshinkan)
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I have known and worked with quite a few Aikidoka through the years, as well as "dabbled" myself. Saying that, seeing them and myself "go at it", using Aikido, it works just as well as any other system on the street. I will also agree about the steeper learning curve required.
Callandor
Green Belt
I think Aikido is really an effective fighting art. The problem is the length of time it takes to be proficient in it compared to striking arts like Karate or Taekwondo. This is probably because of the fact that striking is more instinctive and therefore easier to learn. In Aikido, it is much more mental, I think (based on my observations - I'm not a practitioner.). You have to train the mind to blend with the attacker. To enter and meet her. This is counter-intuitive specially when the opponent is throwing kicks and punches or is in possession of weapons. You also need to have a high degree of calmness to make the techniques work - again, not an easy task to achieve when your adrenaline level is high. This is probably the reason why Aikido focuses so much on meditation. Once you have control of your mind and can see the movements of your opponent as it is with clarity, execution of the technique wont be a difficult task. My view could be wrong but I don't mind being corrected.
Callandor
Green Belt
This is true. It is not the techniques that are difficult but their execution. A wrist lock could be learned in minutes. To perform that, however, requires you to catch the punch (you can't just reach out and grab his wrist unless he's already grabbing you). This requires timing - perfect timing. Timing which you can only achieve when your mind is clear and uncluttered. Timing and mental clarity takes a long time to cultivate. You should also learn to control your fear of stepping in which also takes time.
ejaazi
Purple Belt
True statement, but it is effective in a real fight.
Hi. I studied Shudokan Aikido (an offshoot of Yoshinkan).
It bears little resemblance to the definition at the head of this forum as it is strongly linear, dominating the 'centre line' and contains a wide range of strikes. Speaking to other old guys like me, it seems that some clubs have omitted some 'martial' parts of the art and steered it towards their own specialities. It now has a reputation in some quarters as being compliant and ineffective as it lacks 'aliveness' (against a fighting and resisting challenger).
I know from my own experience and that of others in Shudokan that it is very effective for self defence. It has been used against armed and unarmed attacks.
I'm a bit controversial as I now think the umbrella term 'aikido' has had its day.
I would prefer the use of the style names, as these immediately convey what a club is likely to be teaching. Aikido where I live now is mainly Ki or Judo with knobs on and nobody would dream it can also include hard and fast atemi and knife defence work (I think Shudokan still use live tanto for Dan grades, including random attack jiyuwaza) so it's not a huge jump to SD and certainly helps combat fear of the knife.
Ultimately, however much dojo training you have, you still need to have the confidence and courage to rely on it in a fight.
This is not a recruitment post (LOL) as I don't have contact with Shudokan any more, but I would direct you to Youtube to look at the various styles and their likely usefulness for SD:
Youtube now has some reasonable clips of Shudokan (www.shudokan.info) It is run as a business in the UK, so more than church hall fees, but highly rated for its Aikido:
Joe Thambu in Australia is on there a lot and is, I think, the highest non-Japanese Yoshinkan student graded by Shioda himself.
Here are a few links to look at:
Joe Thambu (Shudokan Melbourne):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cDoxRxCOfn8&mode=related&search=
And here's a bit of fun to show that Aikido is not run exclusively by fat middle aged men - a synchronised team demo with lots of leaping about LOL:
And one of the funniest 'knife defence clips ever' from Jim Carey (with the 'because you are a beginner you didn't attack me right' line LOL :
It bears little resemblance to the definition at the head of this forum as it is strongly linear, dominating the 'centre line' and contains a wide range of strikes. Speaking to other old guys like me, it seems that some clubs have omitted some 'martial' parts of the art and steered it towards their own specialities. It now has a reputation in some quarters as being compliant and ineffective as it lacks 'aliveness' (against a fighting and resisting challenger).
I know from my own experience and that of others in Shudokan that it is very effective for self defence. It has been used against armed and unarmed attacks.
I'm a bit controversial as I now think the umbrella term 'aikido' has had its day.
I would prefer the use of the style names, as these immediately convey what a club is likely to be teaching. Aikido where I live now is mainly Ki or Judo with knobs on and nobody would dream it can also include hard and fast atemi and knife defence work (I think Shudokan still use live tanto for Dan grades, including random attack jiyuwaza) so it's not a huge jump to SD and certainly helps combat fear of the knife.
Ultimately, however much dojo training you have, you still need to have the confidence and courage to rely on it in a fight.
This is not a recruitment post (LOL) as I don't have contact with Shudokan any more, but I would direct you to Youtube to look at the various styles and their likely usefulness for SD:
Youtube now has some reasonable clips of Shudokan (www.shudokan.info) It is run as a business in the UK, so more than church hall fees, but highly rated for its Aikido:
Joe Thambu in Australia is on there a lot and is, I think, the highest non-Japanese Yoshinkan student graded by Shioda himself.
Here are a few links to look at:
Joe Thambu (Shudokan Melbourne):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cDoxRxCOfn8&mode=related&search=
And here's a bit of fun to show that Aikido is not run exclusively by fat middle aged men - a synchronised team demo with lots of leaping about LOL:
And one of the funniest 'knife defence clips ever' from Jim Carey (with the 'because you are a beginner you didn't attack me right' line LOL :
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charyuop
Black Belt
I have watched so many videos of Yoshinkan and I still don't see the hardness in it. As a beginner I try to leave out Atemi for now coz they just mess up my timing, but I see Sensei and Senpai using them continusly.
I have watched many video of Saotome Sensei (Aikikai) and really doesn't look that soft to me.
As per the old fat Akidoka...huuhuum, I just give you on name...Morihiro Saito Sensei (that should be enough said).
I have watched many video of Saotome Sensei (Aikikai) and really doesn't look that soft to me.
As per the old fat Akidoka...huuhuum, I just give you on name...Morihiro Saito Sensei (that should be enough said).
Yari
Master Black Belt
Kennedy_Shogen_Ryu
Blue Belt
I can really only base my opinion on my own experiences...
I only studied Aikido for 2 years, which I openly admit is only long enough to scratch the tip of the iceburg. I have bounced quite a few times and must admit that when it comes to walking out guys who are bigger than me (I'm only 5'7" bout 160 lbs) I have found that Aikido joint locks and holds are quite effective, if used in the right situation.
I only studied Aikido for 2 years, which I openly admit is only long enough to scratch the tip of the iceburg. I have bounced quite a few times and must admit that when it comes to walking out guys who are bigger than me (I'm only 5'7" bout 160 lbs) I have found that Aikido joint locks and holds are quite effective, if used in the right situation.
