African migration to U.S., now more than slavery...

[Sukerkin]

Race as an issue will always be with us until all of our words match all of our deeds.

That's a "quoted for truth statement" there :nods:.

 

[Master Dan]

No, I'm not. Given the content of the OP, I have to conclude that the source of it is either an outright racist or an outright moron.

I simply choose to treat the post as though the source isn't an outright racist.



Well, it might be something like "cultural hatred," but only because someone doesn't want to call it what it is.

Racism

First I congradulate you on your two choices and yes cultural hatred is just another dishonest polite way of trying to serve up the same dish of racism on the menu. I think the base for many peoples hatred of what could be called hatred of practicing cultural values is thier frustration with that culture to infact act or perform like them related to behavior, work performance, entitlements and such. I live in a 50% native community but surounded by 15 villages of 90% native and one thing I will admit I find agrevating is the constant term Traditional values and that would imply active current committment and use of those values while in actual practice the majority no longer practice them which to be accurate it should be historical values. Due to so much alcohol drugs cable internet total break down of family units elders no longer teaching language and cultural practices they are left dependant and blaiming non natives for thier plight.

Those who have had strong families and practice thier historic cultural values do very well but they are not the majority. People who work with them over the years on many levels have to be careful not to become a burn out racist and judge all in general due to the habitual famlies, individuals and organizations they work with not meeting thier expectations?

 

[billc]

Perhaps some on this thread should read this book...

http://www.amazon.com/Matter-What-T...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339625201&sr=1-1

Review

"No book I've read better captures (and documents) the utter disingenuousness of America's racial politics over the past half century—the lazy moral unctuousness of white guilt on the one hand, the shakedown mentality of today's civil rights establishment on the other. But what makes this a compelling read is the way Stein—a cultural journeyer—finds his own moral and political center by unraveling this recent history. He certainly will be called a "racist," which is why this book is so brave."

—Shelby Steele

"I sometimes hear from parents who have been appalled to learn that the child they sent away to college to become educated has instead been indoctrinated with the creed of the left. They often ask if I can suggest something to have their offspring read over the summer, in order to counteract this indoctrination.This year the answer is a no-brainer: No Matter What... They'll Call This Book Racist by Harry Stein. In a little over 200 very readable pages, the author deftly devastates with facts the nonsense about race that dominates much of what is said in the media and in academia...Stein says that his purpose is 'to talk honestly about race.' He accomplishes that purpose in a fact-filled book that should be a revelation, especially to young people of any race, who have been fed a party line in schools and colleges across America."

—Thomas Sowell

 

[Sukerkin]

Is 'race', or the reaction to issues therein, really entwined with 'party' in America?

 

[elder999]

Is 'race', or the reaction to issues therein, really entwined with 'party' in America?

I'd say somewhat, Mark, but they're also entwined with "race."

In fact, while some think that we'd be best off discussing "race," the fact is that such discussions often lead to accusations of racism, based not on the fact of the discussion itself, but upon one side or the others statements and conclusions. One side would like to portray America as some sort of mythological post-racial society, and any accusations or intimations of "racism" as racist in and of themselves, or products of a "victim mentality," whilst the other often tends to see racism almost everyhthwer it looks, having seen so much of it in actuality, it's developed a sort of "snowblindness," where the world seems to be one vast white blanket of conspiracy.

Independent, most of the time, of whether they are democrat or republican, conservative, or liberal.....for the most part.



And, of course, some people are just outright morons, really.

 

[Wo Fat]

Is 'race', or the reaction to issues therein, really entwined with 'party' in America?

IMO, no. The "parties" simply make it easier to trivialize the issues of race. Be it Federalists, Whigs, Reedemers, Prohibitionists, Democrats, or Republicans, the issues of race exist regardless. Not because of or in spite of a "party", but because of the moral failings within human nature.

Race and racial issues are intractable, regardless of the political flavor of the month. We're better off working to end them, than pretending they don't exist. Mockery and ridicule won't work. It only guarantees that the next majority will have a long(er) memory.

 

[Sukerkin]

I was going to say that I thought we were expressing the same opinion but I'm not entirely sure we are.

I do think we are aiming at the same goal.

But I got the impression that you didn't agree when I said something along the lines of that I considered that the best course was for one 'half' of the equation to stop laying blame at a door where it did not belong and for the other half to stop accepting guilt for something that wasn't their doing.

Am I mistaken in that perception?

Of course, I accept that this is something of an academic excercise for me as I do not have to live in a society that is dealing with this conundrum (tho' we have a cultural one of our own presently brewing quite nastily over here in Britain).

 

[Wo Fat]

I was going to say that I thought we were expressing the same opinion but I'm not entirely sure we are.

I do think we are aiming at the same goal.

But I got the impression that you didn't agree when I said something along the lines of that I considered that the best course was for one 'half' of the equation to stop laying blame at a door where it did not belong and for the other half to stop accepting guilt for something that wasn't their doing.

Am I mistaken in that perception?

Of course, I accept that this is something of an academic excercise for me as I do not have to live in a society that is dealing with this conundrum (tho' we have a cultural one of our own presently brewing quite nastily over here in Britain).

I think you're premise is flawed because it suggests that group A needs to stop "laying blame", and that group B did nothing for which to be blamed anyway. I've heard it said in a song:

"...21st century, oh what a shame; race still matters
a 'race' to what? and where are we going?
we're in the same boat, but I'm the only one rowing."

Point being, we've got to stop this schizophrenic approach to race where on one side of people's mouths they concede that race "exists", but out the other side of their mouths deny any responsibility (in whatever measure) for its existence.

I can appreciate that you don't see this as much of an issue in Britain. But I know Black and Brown Brits who would politely disagree.

 

[Omar B]

Yes the white over 50 group is very threatened and realiizes they are becoming a monority but more important the 90% are going to have to learn to work together since they have lost 40% of net worth and soon to loose even more including any ability to effect change by voting

Not to diminish the impact of your message at all but your little Freudian slip there gave me a chuckle.

 

[Sukerkin]

I like the verse, Wo :nods:.

I must have my stupid head on today tho' as I cannot fully fathom what it is that you are suggesting we can do to break the cycle of bi-directional racism (for it does cut both ways and both edges draw blood).

It sounds from what I see in the media and experience here in Netland that the sense of persecution has soaked into the fabric of the Black community; in the same way the sense of being held to account for things they didn't do has soaked into the White community. Both of those trends give rise to anger and resentment and when a person who has one side of that equation butts up against a person who has the other then sparks fly and positions become ever more reinforced.

So, how can that be stopped? There has to be a way, or so I hope for American societies sake. Otherwise it's going to go catastrophically "Boom!" at some point. The heartbreaking thing, as was said long ago by someone wiser than me, is that it is absolutely nonsensical to read a persons character from the colour of their skin.

 

[WC_lun]

How it stops is people get enough compassion and empathy to start seeing the world from the other guys perspective. Its really hard to hate a guy when you realize how much you share with him. However, I am not holding my breath for this to happen. Seems a lot of people like having thier hate on.

 

[billc]

Here is a column on the idea of trying to silence rather than deal with the problem of race...

http://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/2012/06/13/racism-or-silence-whats-wrong-with-this-picture/

Now before I react, let me reiterate what I’ve said here before. I believe racism as a philosophy is knuckleheaded pseudo-science and moral idiocy. It is the kind of half-smart thinking I expect from leftists, and goes entirely against the respect for the individual that is at the heart of conservatism.

That said, what struck me about the video above was not the opinion of the interviewee — who is an honest person on the ground reporting the facts as he sees them — but the reaction of the interviewer from local TV station WIVB-TV. He (sounds like a kid) is clearly shocked by the man’s direct response to his questions and keeps asking, “Don’t you see something wrong with what you’re saying? Mightn’t this be offensive? Isn’t there a bias to your opinion?”
Advertisement

Really? Is that the problem?
This is what the left teaches us. It’s not the actual facts that are a problem — it’s speaking your observations out loud, that’s where the real difficulty lies. This guy may not have the whole story. He may be misinterpreting his observations. We all do that sometimes. But if he isn’t allowed to report honestly what he sees and express his opinions about it, how is anyone ever going to find out what’s happening? This interviewer is essentially suggesting the man shut up and stop answering his questions. He wants his own interviewee to stop relaying his point of view! Maybe instead, this intrepid reporter should — oh, just for instance — listen to the man! And then maybe check out whether or not his opinion is widespread and whether or not it has any basis in truth.
I personally believe that poor black (and many poor white) Americans have had their lives degraded by leftist policies and ideas that discourage the formation of complete families, relieve people of the need for industry and self-care, teach them that they are hated and helpless victims of society and undermine their faith in God. It would not surprise me at all to find that the results of that degradation showed up in this guy’s life in ways that made him hold these opinions.

 

[elder999]

Here is a column on the idea of trying to silence rather than deal with the problem of race...

http://pjmedia.com/andrewklavan/2012/06/13/racism-or-silence-whats-wrong-with-this-picture/

1) That guy in the video is a racist and a moron.:lol:

2) When we moved into the suburbs, out of NYC, back in 1968, a lot of people in our upper-middle class Westchester neighborhood thought like this, that, at the very least, our very presence would bring down property values because of the widely held misperception.

I say misperception because property values didn't come down, we didn't ruin the neighborhood, and the one or two more black families that moved in didn't ruin the neighborhood either-though it was close to 3 years later before the Joneses and the Morgans moved in. In that time, some people moved out-one even told my mom something to the effect of how they liked us, but just thought we'd bring down property values!Y Morons

Years later, we found out from several other families that there'd been a movement by some in the neighborhood to buy the house out from under my parents, when they heard that a "colored" family was buying it. We found out, because those very people each approached us, told us the story, said they were wrong-and apologized-those were meaningful conversations abuot race.

So, Andrew Klavan thinks this guy thinks this way because he's a victim? That a black family had their house deliberately burned down because "black families ruin neighborhoods when they move in," and that they should "keep to their own side of Buffalo?"

And that constitutes "discussion" about race?

Moron.



:lfao:

 

[Wo Fat]

I like the verse, Wo :nods:.

I must have my stupid head on today tho' as I cannot fully fathom what it is that you are suggesting we can do to break the cycle of bi-directional racism (for it does cut both ways and both edges draw blood).

It sounds from what I see in the media and experience here in Netland that the sense of persecution has soaked into the fabric of the Black community; in the same way the sense of being held to account for things they didn't do has soaked into the White community. Both of those trends give rise to anger and resentment and when a person who has one side of that equation butts up against a person who has the other then sparks fly and positions become ever more reinforced.

So, how can that be stopped? There has to be a way, or so I hope for American societies sake. Otherwise it's going to go catastrophically "Boom!" at some point. The heartbreaking thing, as was said long ago by someone wiser than me, is that it is absolutely nonsensical to read a persons character from the colour of their skin.

While you don't come across as "stupid"--you actually carry on a decent conversation without the juvenile need to rely on copy-and-pasting as a means of dialog--you are approaching this subject from a position of ignorance. Not a malicious ignorance, but simply from a vantage point of disinterested observer. You see the issues of race from a media and internet perspective. It's not something that you live with or are required to navigate through. To suggest that Black Americans suffer from a persecution complex is to presume that you possess a depth and breadth of knowledge of the Black American experience that is equal to that of Black Americans. You and I know that such isn't the case. If you're relying on media to educate you on the entirety of the Black experience, you'll never get it. That's like discussing the Chinese experience with a Chinese American person, while only knowing of their culture through contemporary and tabloid-esque media and "netland".

Do yourself a real favor. When you have the opportunity to discuss the issues of race from the perspective of someone who has actually lived and dealt with and understands it, empty your cup.

 

[Omar B]

I hear that man. I got fired from a summer job because "that N-word in the bag room is stealing from the guests." Two weeks later they found all the stuff in the trailer of the two white interns from Penn State. When some guys at a gas station call your economist step dad "boy." Or hows about dudes adjusting their confederate caps when they see you walking out on the street.

 

[Sukerkin]

Oh aye, I am completely aware of the fact that I am addressing a topic from the position of one looking in from the outside.

I can assure you that I am not trying to 'argue' with you or trying to figure out a way of saying you are wrong; I am genuinely interested in learning to hold a more solidly grounded view on this extremely troublesome and, inevitably, dangerously divisive, matter.

I am also hopeful that by holding up a 'mirror' to reflect back the image gained from far away and by asking the 'stupid' questions, that noone born in America would feel the need to ask, that some 'light' might scatter around that help everybody see better.

 

[Cryozombie]

Well, it might be something like "cultural hatred," but only because someone doesn't want to call it what it is.

Racism

Xenophobia comes pretty close, especially if the person in question is rather obvious in trying to disguise their fear or dislike of a culture when they really fear and/or dislike persons or groups within that culture.

Wait... sorry I don't mean like a Racial Culture... I mean like say, I hate everyone who participates in "sports culture" or "Ghetto Street Culture" or "Steampunk Culture"

That's not really a racial thing as it transcends race...

 

[elder999]

Wait... sorry I don't mean like a Racial Culture... I mean like say, I hate everyone who participates in "sports culture" or "Ghetto Street Culture" or "Steampunk Culture"

That's not really a racial thing as it transcends race...

Taste......"sports are not to my taste."

"I hate Steampunk; it offends my aesthetic."

"Ghetto Street Culture is far too ostentatious and loud, and I can't understand a damn thing they're saying, know what I'm sayin'?; I hate it."

 

[Master Dan]

1) That guy in the video is a racist and a moron.:lol:

2) When we moved into the suburbs, out of NYC, back in 1968, a lot of people in our upper-middle class Westchester neighborhood thought like this, that, at the very least, our very presence would bring down property values because of the widely held misperception.

I say misperception because property values didn't come down, we didn't ruin the neighborhood, and the one or two more black families that moved in didn't ruin the neighborhood either-though it was close to 3 years later before the Joneses and the Morgans moved in. In that time, some people moved out-one even told my mom something to the effect of how they liked us, but just thought we'd bring down property values!Y Morons

Years later, we found out from several other families that there'd been a movement by some in the neighborhood to buy the house out from under my parents, when they heard that a "colored" family was buying it. We found out, because those very people each approached us, told us the story, said they were wrong-and apologized-those were meaningful conversations abuot race.

So, Andrew Klavan thinks this guy thinks this way because he's a victim? That a black family had their house deliberately burned down because "black families ruin neighborhoods when they move in," and that they should "keep to their own side of Buffalo?"

And that constitutes "discussion" about race?

Moron.


View attachment 16921
:lfao:

Elder thank you my 7.75 year old daughter enjoyed and understood your post looking over my shoulder. Great graphics glad you and others have positive rebutal to the Moron Factor

 

[Wo Fat]

Oh aye, I am completely aware of the fact that I am addressing a topic from the position of one looking in from the outside.

I can assure you that I am not trying to 'argue' with you or trying to figure out a way of saying you are wrong; I am genuinely interested in learning to hold a more solidly grounded view on this extremely troublesome and, inevitably, dangerously divisive, matter.

I am also hopeful that by holding up a 'mirror' to reflect back the image gained from far away and by asking the 'stupid' questions, that noone born in America would feel the need to ask, that some 'light' might scatter around that help everybody see better.

Oss