African migration to U.S., now more than slavery...

[Wo Fat]

:nods: Of course you may, Wo. I could always use some more cash . Not sure it's fair to call history, or at least my view of it, paternalism mind you but it's not an argument I want to have tonight (too long for the time I have available sadly).

The paternalism is asserting and expecting that the "problems" are best solved if these people will get over it and shut up already, and those people will stop feeling so guilty about. It's not up to you to be the parent in the room.

But I'll keep the rest of my powder dry for tomorrow. Have a good night's rest.

 

[harlan]

I'd like to add one point to the discussion: slavery was actually established in the New World during the conquest of the Americas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Spanish_New_World_colonies

 

[Sukerkin]

The paternalism is asserting and expecting that the "problems" are best solved if these people will get over it and shut up already, and those people will stop feeling so guilty about. It's not up to you to be the parent in the room.

But I'll keep the rest of my powder dry for tomorrow. Have a good night's rest.

Back in quick for I have enough time to say that, aye, I understand your point and I didn't mean to imply that I was saving up for a stand-up fight on the morrow .

I do genuinely think that the only way onwards is to not bear grudges in the present but I also acknowledge that the fallout from slavery in the States is still falling because it is only a handful of generations since the legal position started to change.

In our case over here in Britain, slavery of black Africans was over longer ago and was of a much smaller scale and so it's 'echo' is correspondingly smaller too. The slavery of the rest of our races is even further back and so casts no shadow at all {tho' I still haven't forgiven the Normans for destroying Saxon culture :lol:}. I am guessing too that as both the slaving and the enslaved never thought for a moment that there was anything morally wrong with it, it was never as big an elephant in the room when the mode of 'doing business' changed.

 

[billc]

I think that race as an issue will lose a lot of its power once the civil rights generation has gone on to its reward. The civil rights movement was a central point of life for many people and much like those who survived the depression and world war 2, it colors everything that they see to this day. I have no guilt, I have no hatred or dislike of anyone of any color. The children in my family will experience even less of those things, hopefully and then we can move forward without the constant anxiety over the color of peoples skin. Add to the fire the fact that there is money in keeping racism alive as an issue, and there will always be a remnant of it around.

Did the English bring many African slaves to Europe? I would think not many, so the impact of slave owning mostly impacted their colonies in the new world. Their was less of a direct contact point for most Europeans outside of those transporting slaves from Africa to the Americas. That probably also made it easier to end the practice without going to war.

From the above wikipedia article...

The Spanish imported Africans as laborers to the Americas in 1502.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] They continued to import African slaves, generally buying them from British and Portuguese traders (the former also were transporting slaves to the West Indies and Americas.) The Spanish finally outlawed slavery in 1820 in all colonies with the exceptions of Cuba and Puerto Rico. There it survived in a semi-legal state until being abolished in 1866 and 1863, respectively.

 

[billc]

And to the silliness of the "Race" machine...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2012/06/12/obama-hollywood-cool

[h=2]Well here’s something new: The Congressional Black Caucus has now declared the word “cool” to be a racist term. They’re also accusing conservatives of using it that way.[/h]

 

[Empty Hands]

Joking aside, the 'problem' will never go away unless people either stop bearing generational grudges for something done to their ancestors (or imagined happened) or stop feeling unnecessary guilt for something done by those who are nothing to do with themselves. Both feelings give rise to anger in the end and nothing useful comes of that.

That won't happen until certain other people no longer feel the need to dismiss, minimize, justify, or diminish by comparison one of the greatest crimes in history.

 

[granfire]

That won't happen until certain other people no longer feel the need to dismiss, minimize, justify, or diminish by comparison one of the greatest crimes in history.

Or profit from it.

 

[Wo Fat]

I think that race as an issue will lose a lot of its power once the civil rights generation has gone on to its reward.

Race as an issue is not and never has been a "power" held by people of color who somehow stumbled fortuitously into victimhood. Sure, some people resent that generation/group of Americans for gaining empowerment through innocent victimhood, but too bad.

Race as an issue will always be with us until all of our words match all of our deeds. And we'd better take care of business quickly; the numbers are changing.

 

[billc]

I agree Empty hands, people shouldn't dismiss, justify, minimize or diminish the death of close to 100 million people by communists around the world from 1917 onwards.

 

[elder999]

I agree Empty hands, people shouldn't dismiss, justify, minimize or diminish the death of close to 100 million people by communists around the world from 1917 onwards.

 

[Omar B]

I agree Empty hands, people shouldn't dismiss, justify, minimize or diminish the death of close to 100 million people by communists around the world from 1917 onwards.

Can't make a cogent point? Change the topic.

 

[Sukerkin]

That won't happen until certain other people no longer feel the need to dismiss, minimize, justify, or diminish by comparison one of the greatest crimes in history.

My apologies - that was not my intention.

 

[Master Dan]

Whilst we're remembering all of that, it should also be noted that , slaves in North America during the colonial period had the right to own property, families were kept together, and, while it wasn't often able to be exercised, had they had the ability, as my ancestors did, to buy their freedom. The abolition of the slave trade in 1815 created a somewhat uniquely cruel institution in the southern part of the U.S.-at a time when various states and colonies were abolishing slavery altogether, the south was built on maintaining slavery, and the status of the slaves-at a time when there were black freemen in other states, it had long been illegal for such a thing to exist in some southern states, and various other laws made certain that blacks were "less free" than their white counterparts in instances where they were freed from slavery-for example, a white landowner in Kentucky could go to a free black family and take away a child for "apprenticeship," for "the child's own good."



Largely because of ignorance, I'd imagine. I mean, you do realize that Africa is a continent, of many nations and tribes, don't you? To speak of one tribe or country of the time thinking of another as "their fellow Africans" is, as I posted earlier, much like expecting the British to cut their "fellow Europeans" the French some slack, when, in fact, both nations spent a great deal of time in enmity-just as African and Arab nations and tribes did.

"Fellow Africans." :lfao:

I wish people would just be honest and say they are a racist for what ever reason instead of trying to post threads that say in a polite way gee isn't that interesting hoping to have a few fellow white sheeters join into the conversation. The fact that Africans assisted in capturing other Africans from other tribes has nothing to do with America being or having current racist attitudes even institutional racism? What a Crock how does that add anything positive to the issue of race relations or descrimination in our nation? You try saying that to a person of color who is being descriminated for work or housing or fear of personal safety related to thier color? You may as well start saying to women who are being descriminated against related to health care or equal employment Well you know back in the day men used to just club women and drag them to the cave, it was legal then and they even got some women to help?

Elder you are being way to nice I think the OP should try take his position with Media and see how long it is before he runs for the door while she grabs for her purse

 

[Master Dan]

My apologies - that was not my intention.

Don't you find this thread a racist baiting rhetorical question? The OP should stop hidding behind others and other unrelated historical facts dubious data and just say he thinks America is just fine except for the fact that people of color are all wrong when it comes to thier feelings and reports of unfair treatment. It was quoted the other day that prior to the civil war and I think it was CNBC nearly a Trillion dollars of our total nations net worth was based on owning slaves.

Capitolism depends on the labors of many benefiting the profits of the few. We are killing and maiming our youth to support the oil companies and worse yet TV says Clean Coal that is killing rivers communities and people so that the majority of us can have cheap power?

 

[Empty Hands]

My apologies - that was not my intention.

Oops, darn internet. I wasn't aiming that at you Sukerkin, just making a general point.

 

[Empty Hands]

I agree Empty hands, people shouldn't dismiss, justify, minimize or diminish the death of close to 100 million people by communists around the world from 1917 onwards.

No, they shouldn't.

 

[Cryozombie]

What's the term for Hating a Culture... not its people, not the skin color, not the origin of the person but the practice of the Culture itself?

 

[elder999]

Elder you are being way to nice I think the OP should try take his position with Media and see how long it is before he runs for the door while she grabs for her purse

No, I'm not. Given the content of the OP, I have to conclude that the source of it is either an outright racist or an outright moron.

I simply choose to treat the post as though the source isn't an outright racist.

What's the term for Hating a Culture... not its people, not the skin color, not the origin of the person but the practice of the Culture itself?

Well, it might be something like "cultural hatred," but only because someone doesn't want to call it what it is.

Racism

 

[Wo Fat]

What's the term for Hating a Culture... not its people, not the skin color, not the origin of the person but the practice of the Culture itself?

Xenophobia comes pretty close, especially if the person in question is rather obvious in trying to disguise their fear or dislike of a culture when they really fear and/or dislike persons or groups within that culture.

 

[Master Dan]

Race as an issue is not and never has been a "power" held by people of color who somehow stumbled fortuitously into victimhood. Sure, some people resent that generation/group of Americans for gaining empowerment through innocent victimhood, but too bad.

Race as an issue will always be with us until all of our words match all of our deeds. And we'd better take care of business quickly; the numbers are changing.

Yes the white over 50 group is very threatened and realiizes they are becoming a monority but more important the 90% are going to have to learn to work together since they have lost 40% of net worth and soon to loose even more including any ability to effect change by voting