Addressing people.

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

At the school I attend we use Sir and Ma'am to address everyone. All black belts are addressed as Mr or Ms then last name. When we recite the oath in the beginning and end of class we start and end it with "Sir" as our head instructors is male, out of habit when on the occasions have a female instructor many will still say "Sir" which is always good for a chuckle. Most times the female instructor is understanding.

You guys have an oath? The mr/ms and sir/ma'am is more formal than I'd like, but common enough. But I don't think I've ever seen an oath that's said at the beginning or end of class (nevermind both). Is this a normal thing in TKD?

 

[jobo]

At the school I attend we use Sir and Ma'am to address everyone. All black belts are addressed as Mr or Ms then last name. When we recite the oath in the beginning and end of class we start and end it with "Sir" as our head instructors is male, out of habit when on the occasions have a female instructor many will still say "Sir" which is always good for a chuckle. Most times the female instructor is understanding.

hmm, that soubds a bit like a cult?

what differance does it make, to you learning ma, if you call the instructor sir, his his royal highness or dave

id have a very strong adversion, to calling peopke sir by demand

, when im the customer and they ate the ones providibg the servive, no chance,, if it was free id consider it, if im paying, there noway im buying into them having morally higher station

 

[jobo]

You guys have an oath? The mr/ms and sir/ma'am is more formal than I'd like, but common enough. But I don't think I've ever seen an oath that's said at the beginning or end of class (nevermind both). Is this a normal thing in TKD?

we used to do the oath every week at cub scouts, but then we were 8 and prone to forget things

adult should be able to go a few months in between

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You guys have an oath? The mr/ms and sir/ma'am is more formal than I'd like, but common enough. But I don't think I've ever seen an oath that's said at the beginning or end of class (nevermind both). Is this a normal thing in TKD?

I've seen a few places where a creed of some sort (sometimes called an "oath", but really more philosophical) is recited at the beginning of class. It's more common IME in schools that teach mostly (or only) kids.

 

[Tman]

I've seen a few places where a creed of some sort (sometimes called an "oath", but really more philosophical) is recited at the beginning of class. It's more common IME in schools that teach mostly (or only) kids.

You are correct it is more of a statement of Philosophy then an oath, reminder of the tenants of TKD. We use one to open the class/event and another to close.

 

[_Simon_]

You guys have an oath? The mr/ms and sir/ma'am is more formal than I'd like, but common enough. But I don't think I've ever seen an oath that's said at the beginning or end of class (nevermind both). Is this a normal thing in TKD?

At the end of class every now and then we'd repeat the Dojo Kun (which is essentially an oath of sorts), the instructor would say each line and we'd repeat after. I loved it... it was never a pledge of blood or anything hehe, but just a reminder as to what our training and style was about, and the intention we hold in training it. Was mainly character traits we aspire to, humility, discipline etc

 

[Earl Weiss]

You guys have an oath? The mr/ms and sir/ma'am is more formal than I'd like, but common enough. But I don't think I've ever seen an oath that's said at the beginning or end of class (nevermind both). Is this a normal thing in TKD?

Chang Hon has a "Student Oath"

 

[Earl Weiss]

hmm, that soubds a bit like a cult?

General Choi makes that analogy.

 

[jobo]

At the end of class every now and then we'd repeat the Dojo Kun (which is essentially an oath of sorts), the instructor would say each line and we'd repeat after. I loved it... it was never a pledge of blood or anything hehe, but just a reminder as to what our training and style was about, and the intention we hold in training it. Was mainly character traits we aspire to, humility, discipline etc

what if you dont actualy aspire to humility? do you have to lie or do you get a pass as a conscientious objector?,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

what if you dont actualy aspire to humility? do you have to lie or do you get a pass as a conscientious objector?,

If you don't aspire to humility, why train someplace that emphasizes it as part of the philosophy?

 

[jobo]

If you don't aspire to humility, why train someplace that emphasizes it as part of the philosophy?

is it made a condition of joining, ? only people with humility should apply,

if your caught not showing enough himility do they exspell you?

if not, its all just nonesence and how the hell, do you define humility, any one showibg pride in their progress is all ready breaking the rules

im suprised then dont just requite absenance from the 7 deadly sins, it does sound more like the church

oy , you the fat one, no gluttony allowed

 

[Steve]

If you don't aspire to humility, why train someplace that emphasizes it as part of the philosophy?

Humility is a trait, not a skill. As with any entrenched personality trait, If someone isn't humble, it would take a significant life event to change them. And even then, they are as likely to reject the lesson as not.

Reciting a pledge of humility in a class isn't going to do it.

 

[_Simon_]

what if you dont actualy aspire to humility? do you have to lie or do you get a pass as a conscientious objector?,

I would say humility is a pretty essential precursor to learning (and continued learning), on some level.

It's not like you get punished if you fall short haha. But it's what the style entails, and it's actually a really nice emphasis.

If you don't agree with an important aspect of a place, probably don't train there. If you don't like the bowing either, well, it probably won't suit you either.

 

[_Simon_]

is it made a condition of joining, ? only people with humility should apply,

if your caught not showing enough himility do they exspell you?

if not, its all just nonesence and how the hell, do you define humility, any one showibg pride in their progress is all ready breaking the rules

im suprised then dont just requite absenance from the 7 deadly sins, it does sound more like the church

oy , you the fat one, no gluttony allowed

Hehe.. they are interesting questions, but you may be overthinking it.

It's just something you're trying to develop within yourself. If your punch isn't quite right, they're not going to expel you hey .

It's not a condition of entry, but something you develop there that actually HELPS you learn.

Another of the dojo kun is "We will train our hearts and bodies for a firm unshaking spirit." They won't reject you because you show weakness. It's a work in progress sorta thing.

But even so, humility is sort of a condition to learning anyway, so if you go into the dojo all arrogant, dismissing everything your instructor says, puffing up your chest as if you know better, refusing to listen etc, it probably: a) won't be a good fit, OR b) be a great fit if you're truly willing to work through that.

 

[jobo]

Hehe.. they are interesting questions, but you may be overthinking it.

It's just something you're trying to develop within yourself. If your punch isn't quite right, they're not going to expel you hey .

It's not a condition of entry, but something you develop there that actually HELPS you learn.

Another of the dojo kun is "We will train our hearts and bodies for a firm unshaking spirit." They won't reject you because you show weakness. It's a work in progress sorta thing.

But even so, humility is sort of a condition to learning anyway, so if you go into the dojo all arrogant, dismissing everything your instructor says, puffing up your chest as if you know better, refusing to listen etc, it probably: a) won't be a good fit, OR b) be a great fit if you're truly willing to work through that.

buy as steve said above, humility inst a learnt skill, its a personality trait and not really a very good one its no better or worse than an abundance of arrogance, though it may actually be worse, some people have a lot to be humble about, so they find it easy

if you know your superior to every one else its very difficult to even fake it, but i try some times, but even then it gets perceived as condescending, by humble people, but no one cares much what humble people think, have you noticed the similarities between humility and humiliated, thats not a coincidence

is it a condition of learning ? im trying to think how many successful people have a good deal of humility,,,, EEEER,,, no not getting anything

 

[Gerry Seymour]

is it made a condition of joining, ? only people with humility should apply,

if your caught not showing enough himility do they exspell you?

if not, its all just nonesence and how the hell, do you define humility, any one showibg pride in their progress is all ready breaking the rules

im suprised then dont just requite absenance from the 7 deadly sins, it does sound more like the church

oy , you the fat one, no gluttony allowed

You’re deflecting. Why sign up at a place where the philosophy doesn’t match your goals?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Humility is a trait, not a skill. As with any entrenched personality trait, If someone isn't humble, it would take a significant life event to change them. And even then, they are as likely to reject the lesson as not.

Reciting a pledge of humility in a class isn't going to do it.

No, It won’t. But humility can be cultivated. It’s not an immutable trait, in my experience.

 

[Steve]

I would say humility is a pretty essential precursor to learning (and continued learning), on some level.

It's not like you get punished if you fall short haha. But it's what the style entails, and it's actually a really nice emphasis.

If you don't agree with an important aspect of a place, probably don't train there. If you don't like the bowing either, well, it probably won't suit you either.

Very few elite level athletes get there by believing they're only pretty good.

Don't get me wrong. I think humility is a laudable trait, but arrogant people learn new things all the time. In fact, I could be argued that at some point, too much humility can be as limiting to development as too little humility.

 

[Steve]

No, It won’t. But humility can be cultivated. It’s not an immutable trait, in my experience.

That hasn't been my experience. Or I should say it's rare in adults. It's like cultivating empathy in an adult, or integrity. And it's only possible if the person is coachable and receptive to feedback.

We may just disagree, though, because I think traits are pretty well ingrained. Changing them generally requires some life altering event.

 

[Steve]

You’re deflecting. Why sign up at a place where the philosophy doesn’t match your goals?

you don't become more humble by talking about humility.