Addressing an instructor

[Headhunter]

saw an argument on Facebook on the whole addressing an instructor as sir thing. Personally I don't think much of it either way. If an instructor wants to be called sir I'll call him it if he doesn't then I won't.

Personally when I teach. I don't care. For kids I can see it as teaching respect but even when I've taught kids I don't specifically tell them you have to call me mr hunter and if one comes up to me and says hey head...I'm not telling them off for that.

For adults it's simple. If they call me sir I specially tell them don't call me sir. I don't like it personally. That's just the way I am.

But the argument was saying that if you don't have kids do this and call the instructor sir or sensei or mr...or miss....then they'll become menaces to society....personally I think that's a load of rubbish. I mean boxing and kickboxing coaches they don't get called sir and there's no reason to think those are more dangers to society than anyone else.

To me as an instructor I don't like being held on a pedestal. I want anyone I teach to be comftoable enough to come to talk to me like they would with one of the guys but from my experience people are reluctant to share personal or embarassing issues with people they consider above them. That's why I don't do that. I'm just one of the guys in the club. Okay I might be teaching but that doesn't make me a better or more important person than the white belt on his first class.


That's my take. But everyone has their ways and as I said if someone wants me to address them as sir or anything else then I'll happily address them as that in the class.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I call an instructor whatever they want to be called. Personally, I'm fine just being called my name, but if the school has a rule that an instructor is "sensei", then I'll insist on it. If not, then whatever someone wants to call me, they can.

 

[Hanshi]

When I had my own school it didn't matter much to me. Some called me "sensei" but some just called me by my first name. Many years later I'm more often addressed as "sir" or "Hanshi" but it also depends on the situation. Outside the dojo It's usually by my name.

 

[Hanshi]

I should add that my former co-owner, who now owns the school since my retirement, calls the students "sir" and is usually addressed as such or by a title or just sensei.

 

[skribs]

At my school, everyone calls everyone "sir" or "ma'am." My Master will call the 4 year old white belts "sir" or "ma'am."

 

[Danny T]

What is the culture of the school or gym? What is the culture the instructor is working to achieve?
When I was younger I didn't care what I was called. Just be respectful. As the years have gone on I've notice the almost total lack of common courtesies...everywhere. I began calling my students sir or ma'am. I've always said please, thank you, I appreciate your help but the younger men and women, teens, and kids never or seldom did.
As I continued to refer to everyone as Sir or Ma'am slowly everyone in the training center began, first with me and the staff, and then to each other, to call each other as Sir or Mr. or Ms. Even the kids assistant instructors are not called the youth students Sir or Ms.
I hear the terms; please, thank you, Yes vs yeah, or No sir vs uh uh.
Just common courtesies. I'm called several different terms but mostly just Coach and that's fine with me.

 

[skribs]

What is the culture of the school or gym? What is the culture the instructor is working to achieve?
When I was younger I didn't care what I was called. Just be respectful. As the years have gone on I've notice the almost total lack of common courtesies...everywhere. I began calling my students sir or ma'am. I've always said please, thank you, I appreciate your help but the younger men and women, teens, and kids never or seldom did.
As I continued to refer to everyone as Sir or Ma'am slowly everyone in the training center began, first with me and the staff, and then to each other, to call each other as Sir or Mr. or Ms. Even the kids assistant instructors are not called the youth students Sir or Ms.
I hear the terms; please, thank you, Yes vs yeah, or No sir vs uh uh.
Just common courtesies. I'm called several different terms but mostly just Coach and that's fine with me.

One thing I wish parents would teach their kids today is that it doesn't matter so much the words you use, but how you use them. "Sure thing, buddy" can be more respectful than "yes, sir" if the former is said with respect and the latter is sarcastic.

(We don't let them get away with a sarcastic "yes, sir" at my dojang).

 

[Danny T]

One thing I wish parents would teach their kids today is that it doesn't matter so much the words you use, but how you use them. "Sure thing, buddy" can be more respectful than "yes, sir" if the former is said with respect and the latter is sarcastic.

(We don't let them get away with a sarcastic "yes, sir" at my dojang).

Context is always important

 

[dvcochran]

What is the culture of the school or gym? What is the culture the instructor is working to achieve?
When I was younger I didn't care what I was called. Just be respectful. As the years have gone on I've notice the almost total lack of common courtesies...everywhere. I began calling my students sir or ma'am. I've always said please, thank you, I appreciate your help but the younger men and women, teens, and kids never or seldom did.
As I continued to refer to everyone as Sir or Ma'am slowly everyone in the training center began, first with me and the staff, and then to each other, to call each other as Sir or Mr. or Ms. Even the kids assistant instructors are not called the youth students Sir or Ms.
I hear the terms; please, thank you, Yes vs yeah, or No sir vs uh uh.
Just common courtesies. I'm called several different terms but mostly just Coach and that's fine with me.

Agree. I think it is a cultural thing that is hard to start and easier to maintain. It can never be commanded as the old "because I said so" edict. Saying yes sir/ma'am is more for the person saying it most often. Teaching humility, respect, and compassion. Some things that are being taught less and less at home, for reasons I do not understand nor will argue. I just know that is the way of the world. Most martials arts take a wholistic approach. Body, mind, spirit. I would say for a decade or longer you did not hear as much about the spiritual component because it wasn't considered appropriate in society. I do feel that is changing. The martial arts are a way to learn all three concepts in a tangible, measurable way. Maybe it is just part of the human condition but we react to, and process physical interaction easier. Tell me how to do something and I may never fully understand. Show me how to do it and I can process it much better/faster. When I see others acting respectful in the workout area it becomes the norm and transcends the dojo/dojang over time. A great example of "the way".

 

[Buka]

I used to have students address me by first name. Then, at the order of people training me they insisted I be addressed as Sensei. Then, under other instructors I was addressed as Sabu, then as Sabumnim then Kwachangnin (I don’t remember the proper spelling.) But since 03 I am addressed as Coach.

The only good thing about all that is when I run into people I trained decades ago. Outside of long time guys, you can’t really remember them all. Until they say “Hi Sensei” then at least you know what era they are from and can usually place them.

I had all students I trained address other people as sir or ma’am. I taught city kids who were learning a lot of fighting, had to balance it by teaching them to be ladies and gentlemen. Best thing I’ve ever done. So many of their children have thanked me. And their grandchildren. And they always policed each other and newbies the same way.

Trips me out sometimes, training the kids of kids of students.

 

[skribs]

Agree. I think it is a cultural thing that is hard to start and easier to maintain. It can never be commanded as the old "because I said so" edict. Saying yes sir/ma'am is more for the person saying it most often. Teaching humility, respect, and compassion. Some things that are being taught less and less at home, for reasons I do not understand nor will argue. I just know that is the way of the world. Most martials arts take a wholistic approach. Body, mind, spirit. I would say for a decade or longer you did not hear as much about the spiritual component because it wasn't considered appropriate in society. I do feel that is changing. The martial arts are a way to learn all three concepts in a tangible, measurable way. Maybe it is just part of the human condition but we react to, and process physical interaction easier. Tell me how to do something and I may never fully understand. Show me how to do it and I can process it much better/faster. When I see others acting respectful in the workout area it becomes the norm and transcends the dojo/dojang over time. A great example of "the way".

I was talking with my Master about this the other day. How the respect I've learned at the dojang has helped me avoid fights, and has been the biggest part of the self defense I've learned.

 

[dvcochran]

I was talking with my Master about this the other day. How the respect I've learned at the dojang has helped me avoid fights, and has been the biggest part of the self defense I've learned.

For clarification, are we keeping this about street defense only? I hope so. The SA I have learned and maturation in "how to handle/carry/present yourself is something I think most people only realize they have learned in hindsight. At least the magnitude of it anyway. It does sound cliché when myself or most others talk about self confidence, esteem, self control, etc... All the buzz words. And there are probably better, more reactive ways to phrase these keywords to the current generation but man, they are just as true today as they were 50 years ago.
In LE that instant response from nothing going on to xxxx hits the fan is stressful and even guys with ample self defense or military training cannot always handle the rate of change very well.
I don't want to call it a niche but I do not think every MA school teaches it effectively. Not knocking any style or system in that statement.

 

[skribs]

For clarification, are we keeping this about street defense only? I hope so. The SA I have learned and maturation in "how to handle/carry/present yourself is something I think most people only realize they have learned in hindsight. At least the magnitude of it anyway. It does sound cliché when myself or most others talk about self confidence, esteem, self control, etc... All the buzz words. And there are probably better, more reactive ways to phrase these keywords to the current generation but man, they are just as true today as they were 50 years ago.
In LE that instant response from nothing going on to xxxx hits the fan is stressful and even guys with ample self defense or military training cannot always handle the rate of change very well.
I don't want to call it a niche but I do not think every MA school teaches it effectively. Not knocking any style or system in that statement.

There's been times people have tried to pick a fight with me, but I gave them no energy to feed off of. I didn't get flustered or freeze. I didn't argue with them or try and come up with a witty comeback that would escalate the situation.

Afterwards I'll look at what happened and think "that's my respect training at play."

I will agree that there are a lot of buzz words that you think are cliche, but I've seen it happen.

 

[Buka]

There's been times people have tried to pick a fight with me, but I gave them no energy to feed off of. I didn't get flustered or freeze. I didn't argue with them or try and come up with a witty comeback that would escalate the situation.

Afterwards I'll look at what happened and think "that's my respect training at play."

I will agree that there are a lot of buzz words that you think are cliche, but I've seen it happen.

“Give them no energy to feed off of”
That’s a thing of beauty right there.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

First, to address the OP....I came up (mostly) in schools where "sir" and "Mr./Ms." were the standard appellation for instructors. Early in my NGA training, we used "Mr./Ms" for everyone, though that started to shift some by the time I left that school (after a billion years there, and 2 CI changes). I'm a bit more relaxed about it now, myself, but am entirely comfortable with whatever folks want to be called. When I go back to the old school, I fall (mostly) into the old habits. At the Karate dojo where I train, they are at least as formal as my old school, so I get called "sensei" a lot there, which works fine for me. I don't require folks use the "sir", though I'm comfortable with it. If I taught kids, it'd be expected of them for all the reasons folks above have mentioned (I tend to mostly get folks in their late 30's and up).

It's odd to me that I rather like the formality, because I'm not a particularly formal person in other areas. It's just what I'm mostly used to. But I will say that formality has the potential to breed a separation between student and instructor levels that can be unhealthy for the instructors.

 

[dvcochran]

There's been times people have tried to pick a fight with me, but I gave them no energy to feed off of. I didn't get flustered or freeze. I didn't argue with them or try and come up with a witty comeback that would escalate the situation.

Afterwards I'll look at what happened and think "that's my respect training at play."

I will agree that there are a lot of buzz words that you think are cliche, but I've seen it happen.

Well said. Defusing confrontation is a learned tool. I liken it to the examples of people standing bears and such. If a person walks away with an expression of defeat, they may not walk away clean. The ability to walk away while making the other guy look or feel like an idiot is priceless. Overstated but true.

It makes me smile to look back at the old me; we grew up in a culture of fighting as a form of maturing. In our society it taught you how to handle adversity. Violent? Not by todays standards. I have "had the crap beat out of me" a lot but with only 2 exceptions I was able to go to work the next day.

It took me the better part of 3 decades to learn an aggressive attitude is not the best way to initiate an interaction with another person.

 

[skribs]

“Give them no energy to feed off of”
That’s a thing of beauty right there.

It's the opposite of what my Master tells me about teaching class. In class, I'm supposed to give them all kinds of energy to feed on.

 

[Buka]

I'm usually quite formal about addressing people in the Martial Arts. To a point. I usually address any Instructor how they would like. However, the only ones I've ever addressed as Master are Jung Hwan Park of TKD, Ting Fong Wong of Kung Fu and Ed Parker of Kenpo.

I addressed Wally Jay as Professor, Nick Cerio as Shihan, Joe Lewis as Joe and Fred Villari as "hey you."

 

[dvcochran]

I'm usually quite formal about addressing people in the Martial Arts. To a point. I usually address any Instructor how they would like. However, the only ones I've ever addressed as Master are Jung Hwan Park of TKD, Ting Fong Wong of Kung Fu and Ed Parker of Kenpo.

I addressed Wally Jay as Professor, Nick Cerio as Shihan, Joe Lewis as Joe and Fred Villari as "hey you."

My long time teacher/instructor/friend Shin, Seoung Eui by rang according to the commonly accepted ranking systems of TKD is a Grandmaster. Most people address him that way. I started working out with him when it was called Master. When he talks about himself or of other instructors he always addresses them as Mister or Missus. While at his house one day I asked him why he does that? He sort of smiled and said something like "men are mister, women are missus". I have never addressed him by his first name nor heard anyone else do it. We are close friends but it would just be weird. I don't feel it has much to do to with rank and nothing to do with "superiority", but have zero problems offering him enough respect to address him accordingly.
Most of the time I will say Master, not Grandmaster out of habit, just depends on the setting. He never seems to care. I have had a few people try to add the Master moniker when addressing me. Just feels weird. I really don't need the ego stroke.

I need to do more research on where the Master/Grandmaster convention got started. I feel it is definitely an eastern tradition.
I know many certified Master electricians, plumbers, millwrights, etc... Many of them use the title to identify themselves or promote their business but never have I heard anyone in a skilled trade field be commonly addressed as Master "XXXX". Teachers on the other hand go by Professor "XXXX" when such a degree is attained. Doctors of various skilled professions use the MD or PhD suffixes.
Without exception, we have all seen people various walks of life who desire title as an ego stroke or misguided confirmation. On the other hand, we all know people with no formal title who earn our highest level or respect.
Character is the best qualifier I know.

 

[JR 137]

I asked a priest if his parents call him father. He chuckled and said “my parents call me a lot of things; ‘Father’ definitely isn’t one of them. The one time my father called me ‘father’ there was quite a bit of sarcasm in his voice.” He was a good guy. Probably still is.