about that

[sinthetik_mistik]

I like that post so much if you P.M me your mailing address I'll send you some complimentary Kona coffee that you forgot to get from your supplier. Real Kona, no blend stuff.

you live in Hawaii I'm so jealous

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm a Sanda coach. I teach both the striking art and the wrestling art (I don't use the term "grappling" because my ground game knowledge is limited). When one of my wrestler students (from Michigan state) who tried to test his skill in local MMA gym and sparred against boxers, it made me think,

- Is it possible for someone who has 0 striking art training to be able to deal with a boxer?
- If one gives up 100% striking intention, what kind of strategy will he use?
- What's the most important concern when one fights against a boxer?
- What should be the 1st thing that he will need to train?
- ...

Since then, I was very interested in "striking-vs-grappling" discussion. I have some ideas but it's still in the testing stage. I hope one day I can write a book about "anti-striking".

Sounds interesting. I look forward to hearing your thoughts more as they develop.

I use the term "grappling" like you use "wrestling", I think. It includes both stand-up and ground work. For a lot of folks "wrestling" implies one of a few specific Western approaches to grappling.

 

[Headhunter]

I haven't read all of the responses closely, so I apologize if I am repeating something that has already been said. Full disclosure, I have been a striker my entire martial arts tenure, so I am speaking strictly from a striker's perspective. I have about a year of BJJ (Gracie and 10th Planet), which puts me in the category of "not an expert" but "can outgrapple my friends". Here are my humble thoughts:

- The Gracies, and anyone who trains as much as they do, are the elite of the elite. Most "twice a week" martial artists are going to be very limited in a ring with someone who trains professionally. There is a huge gap between professionally trained athlete and the "twice a week" martial artist. I was a very successful sport karate athlete in the early 90's (living on my prior glory), and while I'm not suggesting I belong in the same category a professional athlete, most of my competitors were "twice a week martial arts guys". It was easy to see the competitors who trained hours a day because there is a big gap between the two. My point is, arguments tend to be based on the examples of the elite. To say the "Gracies proved that striking is defenseless against grappling" is like saying that "Mike Tyson proved that blocks are defenseless against punching" because he just powers through the blocks. I don't know if my analogy fits, but the Gracies, and any other high-level elite grapplers, are so far above the person that trains an hour at a time, twice a week. It would be the same for high-level elite strikers; they are in a much higher class than the twice a week jiu jitsu guy. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't one of the first Gracie losses ever delivered from a high roundhouse knockout in 11 seconds in Japan? I may be wrong about that. but I remember seeing the fight. Point being I would never grapple @gpseymour or @Tony Dismukes because they would just tie me in a knot, but they are also elite grapplers. Their success does not mean that my 35 years of striking, footwork, aggression, scenario training, and technique would not be effective if a random attacker ever tried to take me down.

- Here are a few observations from my bjj class(es). The students at my latest bjj school (as well as my previous bjj school) always start from their backs and never from a standing position. That's an observation I've heard from many bjj students at various schools. As a striker, this is great for me because the bjj students in my classes don't feel comfortable standing up, and never really practice takedowns. Even the Blue Belt and above grapplers don't feel very comfortable starting from a standing position. We do some starting from standing, but it is never drilled consistently. Therefore, it is very easy for me to counter their takedowns (when we ever do them) by using footwork and timing. I wouldn't imagine a drunk telling me he was going to kick my ***, and then sitting down expecting me to engage him in a grappling contest. When the students do start from stand-up, they do it from a grappler's version of stand-up (hunched over trying to grab each other's hands.) During one class I was drilling sprawling with the instructor. Out of habit I punched him in the face (gloves on) as the began to shoot in. He stopped, was clearly shaken, and I apologized profusely. I'm not saying that a defensive job is the perfect counter to a takedown from a Gracie Black Belt, but at that moment he was so focused on shooting in, and expecting me to sprawl, that he didn't expect me to react with a defensive jab (I swear I wasn't planning on doing it...just reaction). It broke his pattern of thinking (OODA Loop) just long enough for me have time to run away if it were an attack scenario.

- When people think of "striking" most only think about boxing. Striking doesn't only include punches. During one grappling class I accidently hit my partner in the groin trying to get out of something (I forgot what it was...maybe guard). It was a very effective way of stopping whatever he was doing. Granted we were both bjj beginners but it does show that groin strikes can still be effective against a grappler. I also accidently (I swear) poked my partner in the eye while going for a choke. The eye poke caused him to stop working and allowed me to apply the choke (although if it were an attack scenario it would have given me an oppurtunity to get up and run away.) Dirty fighting (biting, spitting, headbutts, eye gouges, groin strikes) are talked about but never really trained for (or against.) Bjj always talks about creating those small openings of opportunity, dirty fighting can create those. Now that I reflect on these stories, I realize that I may be the world's worst grappling partner to have.

I understand that my quick stories only apply to my specific situations at that specific time, but I tell them to show that striking is not defenseless against grappling. A better statement may be that "a striker will have a difficult time against an elite high-performing grappler"...but it could also be argued that a "twice a week" grappler would have a difficult time against a high-performing striker. I think my responses went off topic at times. My apologies if this reply became all about me, and is really long, but I can only speak with authenticity from situations that I have been in.

Pretty much I mean people always say the Gracie's prove size doesn't matter in a fight because Royce beat bigger guys...well yeah but Royce has been training since he could walk and most of those big guys had 0 skill. If a small guy starts bjj at 15 years old it's going to take him a long time to get the skill needed to beat big guys

 

[Buka]

you live in Hawaii I'm so jealous

Yeah, but if you ever go to Maui you'll have someone to show you around.

 

[sinthetik_mistik]

Yeah, but if you ever go to Maui you'll have someone to show you around.

awesome! I'll take you up on that

 

[Buka]

awesome! I'll take you up on that

I'll be here, bro.

 

[jobo]

Pretty much I mean people always say the Gracie's prove size doesn't matter in a fight because Royce beat bigger guys...well yeah but Royce has been training since he could walk and most of those big guys had 0 skill. If a small guy starts bjj at 15 years old it's going to take him a long time to get the skill needed to beat big guys

Big guys Arnt really that much of a problem, it's big strong guys that are the issue, you can of course be a "small strong guy, that then equals it up a bit