A school with no stated style and no rank belts: would you train there?

[xfighter88]

Would I try it out. Tentative yes. I would have to check the background of the instructor to make sure it's not just some guy that thinks he can fight teaching others their "secrets of the street." If they check out, then I would try it.

MAs are about learning. You don't need a rank to learn.

Would that school be in business long. Nope. Most people, especially here in the USA, want some sort of symbol of progression and/or accomplishment. I think a school like this would only appeal to people who ahve been in martial arts for a while and understand that it isn't about rank.

 

[katagrl]

I agree that people can get way too over-focused on ranks, but I would probably not want to train in a school such as this, not because of no ranks or belts, but because I really enjoy being part of a "lineage" that goes with being in a traditional martial art. Keeping the style alive and all that.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Would you train there or at least check it out?

Daniel

Yes. I already do. It's Genbukan ninpo (it applies to jujutsu too).
Kyu ranks are all green. Dan ranks are all black. Black takes about 10 years to achieve.
Mind you this is just the belt system. I enjoy being part of a lineage that goes back hundreds of years. There is also more to Genbukan than just the fighting aspect.

I think it's a good thing to stay away from the color schemes.
Especially such ridiculous schemes that also work with additional colored tassles and other markings to subdivide each belt into 3 sub-ranks.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I agree that people can get way too over-focused on ranks, but I would probably not want to train in a school such as this, not because of no ranks or belts, but because I really enjoy being part of a "lineage" that goes with being in a traditional martial art. Keeping the style alive and all that.

This is my personal preference. I believe that one can train in a traditional martial art with a lineage and kyu/dan ranks without the plethora of belts.

I think that belts are helpful to the instructor if he or she has large classes. It is also helpful to new students in that it tells them who the advanced students are and who just started a two to five months ago.

Having said that, I do not dismiss other systems out of hand. If the owner claims to have developed a system out of the traditions that he or she had learned, and assuming their background checks out, I would at least be interested in watching a class.

Would I actually train at such a place? Maybe. I would have to be looking for a place to train (perhaps after a move). If the environment were a club atmosphere or allowed for crosstraining, I would be more likely to crosstrain than to sign on as a brand new student.

If I were looking to start fresh with a new art, would I sign on to learn his/her system? All depends on what is being offered, the quality of the instruction, and how all that stacks up to what else is in the area. If its a toss up between this school and an established hapkido school? All things being equal, I would be at the hapkido school.

Daniel

 

[teekin]

Yes. I already do. It's Genbukan ninpo (it applies to jujutsu too).
Kyu ranks are all green. Dan ranks are all black. Black takes about 10 years to achieve.
Mind you this is just the belt system. I enjoy being part of a lineage that goes back hundreds of years. There is also more to Genbukan than just the fighting aspect.

I think it's a good thing to stay away from the color schemes.
Especially such ridiculous schemes that also work with additional colored tassles and other markings to subdivide each belt into 3 sub-ranks.

Damn! I would KILL for tassles! The belts are one thing, like the polka dot belts, barney belts, candycanelane pink belts but Tassles! WOW! Now I want tassles. I could tie them to my grappling shoes! Oh Andrew......Could we please have tassles? Puuhhleeaasse??? I won't even play with them.......much.

 

[Blade96]

I think the overwhelming majority of high level Karate teachers believe that the Karate style of striking is the best...the one true way.

I'd have a problem though, with people, even high ranking senseis like my 6th Dan (telling me shotokan is better than kenpo) telling others they know the one and only do to live.

well yes, for them it would be the one true way. the way that was just perfect for the kind of person they were. But for other people that do might not be right for them, for whatever reason. So to tell someone that another is wrong, and theirs is the only true way, I'd have issue with that.

Its like when my sensei said shotokan is best. and is the better way. To him, and to me, and to other Shotokankas maybe. But for someone else, maybe the Kenpo I studied for 2 months, and that way suited them best. who am i or my sensei to tell them what 'The Way' should be. let them discover their own.

 

[katagrl]

Blade96: my sensei said shotokan is best. and is the better way.

Nu uh, shito ryu is best, and is far superior to shotokan. Just kidding. Tho obviously I prefer it, or would have chosen shotokan.

 

[Blade96]

Blade96: my sensei said shotokan is best. and is the better way.

Nu uh, shito ryu is best, and is far superior to shotokan. Just kidding. Tho obviously I prefer it, or would have chosen shotokan.

Hehehe. =]

Nice. Then keep doing what you're doing, Kata Girl. btw i see you're a brown belt, so its obviously working out well for you.

Keep on keepin' on.

 

[Maddogkull]

I think that a place needs a stated style. But I actually prefer no belt ranks. It is way easier to distinguish from student to sensei. I know some green belts that are way stronger then a lot of brown belts (in sparring, and I believe, some people take their ranks to seriously instead of their knowledge of the art) I honestly think a 3 rank belt is the best. White for beginner, Green for intermediate, Black/Red for advanced. It seems to me, that to many belts are just a way to make money off students that go for their grading. But I have to say a place with no stated style, just seems like freestyle fighting, with added martial arts styles.

 

[Hudson69]

Now if he had a 1am workout for LE, EMS workers, pizza shop owners, and eveyone else that works 2nd shift, I'd be all over that

Come to Colorado; we have a gym as LE where the more martial minded, or those that like to fight go to train/brawl. It starts at Midnight when the first evening shift gets off but rolls onward to 0400-0600 for when the 0300 (off time) officers get done. EMS/Fire are welcome too.

 

[JWLuiza]

I always watch first anyway. If I liked what I saw, I'd stick with it.

 

[MBuzzy]

Unfortunately, I think I missed the no belt thread....but on the belt issue, while it is a good idea, I don't think that it works in practice. I trained at an Aikido school with two belt colors, white and black. The problem is that the hierarchy still exists....belts just make it easier. The problem is not in the color of the belt, it is in the attitude of the instructor. Students' attitudes flow from that of the instructor. If he doesn't care about rank and doesn't emphasize it, neither will they - particuluarly if he squashes it when it rears its ugly head. It did make things significantly difficult for new students though...as a new student, you need to know who to ask things and when you walk in the door, basically everyone who is in the room knows more than you, but may not be the right person to help you. With belt colors, you can at least ask the right person - then, once you get to know people, their knowledge and skill level, you basically build that hierarchy in your head anyway!

As for style, again, great idea, but it doesn't work in practice. Once you do it for a while, it will develop a name and become a style. It may not have a name, but it is still a style....even a style without form or scripted curriculum is still a style.

 

[MBuzzy]

As for whether I'd go....I would certainly go check it out! But that is the extend until I knew what they taught.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

It did make things significantly difficult for new students though...as a new student, you need to know who to ask things and when you walk in the door, basically everyone who is in the room knows more than you, but may not be the right person to help you. With belt colors, you can at least ask the right person - then, once you get to know people, their knowledge and skill level, you basically build that hierarchy in your head anyway!

This was part of the original reason for the colored belts in the first place. That and for the instructor to tell who should be doing what in a large class. Too bad belt colors have morphed into one-ups-manship and money making tools.

As for style, again, great idea, but it doesn't work in practice. Once you do it for a while, it will develop a name and become a style. It may not have a name, but it is still a style....even a style without form or scripted curriculum is still a style.

Just to clarify, in the scenario presented in the OP, there is a style, so to speak, but it is not mentioned in any of the signage. The style of this hypothetical school is used as more of a framework to work within rather than as a rigid and codified style as well.

Daniel