A quite different 1st form!

[wckf92]

Check this out.
I wonder if this is how he was taught, or is it an adaptation he created?

 

[ShortBridge]

I don't mean this disrespectfully, but I've never been clear on the origin of Sifu Chow's Wing Chun. His website doesn't clarify that in the way that I'm used to seeing either.

 

[wckf92]

I don't mean this disrespectfully, but I've never been clear on the origin of Sifu Chow's Wing Chun. His website doesn't clarify that in the way that I'm used to seeing either.

I don't know much about him either...
Just thought it weird how he seems to have added 2nd form turning to his 1st form.

 

[ShortBridge]

Maybe someone from his organization can clarify for us. It's been a while since I've looked at their website, but what I recall, it said things about living near Yip Man in Hong Kong and having tea with them and even Yip Man stopping by his class on occasion. It didn't (as I recall) say that he studied with Yip Man. I also kind of remember it not having a lineage chart or clearly stating where his Wing Chun came from.

Again, not a judgement, just confusing. I know that not all Wing Chun came through Yip Man, but it's tough to know how to take form differences if I don't know where to track his forms back to.

 

[KPM]

Check this out.
I wonder if this is how he was taught, or is it an adaptation he created?

My guess is that it is his own adaptation. Did you notice that during the opening section he goes out with Wu and back with Fook....opposite of the "traditional" way? I've been told in the past that this was his own adaptation, so the shifting likely is as well.

But no big deal. In Pin Sun Wing Chun the level 1 sets are done stationary first. Then later shifting is included. At an even later stage the 2nd hand is added.

 

[geezer]

My guess is that it is his own adaptation. Did you notice that during the opening section he goes out with Wu and back with Fook....opposite of the "traditional" way? I've been told in the past that this was his own adaptation, so the shifting likely is as well.

But no big deal. In Pin Sun Wing Chun the level 1 sets are done stationary first. Then later shifting is included. At an even later stage the 2nd hand is added.

Yeah, I noticed the extending wu-sau and withdrawing fook-sau, and also that the way he sets up his stance in not the usual way it's done in most Yip Man lineages. Quite odd since, he claims to have been a student of Ng Sum Wah who was a student of Leung Sheung, Yip Man's first to-dai in Hong Kong. He also refer's to Leung Sheung as his Si-Gung in the Mook Yang Jong video on his website. I didn't catch any references to other Wing Chun teachers or other WC lineages he studied with, although he does mention studying a lot of other styles of kung fu.

My guess is that his so-called "Integrative Wing Chun" is his own combination of some of these diverse influences with his Wing Chun.

 

[OzPaul]

He is a student of the late Ng Wah Sum. He moved from Hong Kong to New York in the 70's or 80's. His Wing Chun is very good and similar to most other students of the Leung Sheung lineage. This is just a form he made up.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Check this out.
I wonder if this is how he was taught, or is it an adaptation he created?

After 1.35, I can see some "body unification" that I don't see in many other WC clips. He understands that "only moving the arm without moving the body" is a bad idea.

 

[Danny T]

From other videos I've seen of him over the years he teaches SNT in the same manner as most and this is a personal adaptation of his. It is a all good; probably a pre Chum Kiu training.

 

[FighterTwister]

Check this out.
I wonder if this is how he was taught, or is it an adaptation he created?

Personally I just don't see anything different than what I have been taught and learn't from Wing Chun.

All I see is that first he is teaching it slightly different by not doing the full set of movements I think intentionally to illustrate the body shifting footwork also he is simply expressing it in his own person (body type) meaning height, length of arms, execution and precision of each move and looks fit and healthy, not like other YouTube examples that poorly represent Wing Chun.

Again its about the individual the body type and body mechanics, that in itself creates the illusion there is something new here, when really it's just the same form expressed by a different person.

The emphasis on the footwork is all part of Wing Chun forming the triangle shape shifting from center-line to left and right as a parry/block and deflection counter attack.

As its commonly seen and demonstrated on YouTube that Wing Chun is using allot of close quarter arm/hands movement, but its always been allot more than that, its utilizing the whole core and body structure including foot shifting and weight distribution as part of each movement and energy transfer through the feet all the way up to the hands final snap or position.

You see this allot more effectively when doing it on the Mook Jong, just remember what are drill exercises and what are actual movements expressed in real sparring for example.

I really don't see what the fuss is here, other than seeing someone who is doing it better than most that I have seen on YouTube by combining the footwork and body structure that most either intentionally leave out or poorly put into practice as an entire movement.

Remember Wing Chun is about angles of economy protecting the center-line where the focus is body shifting and trapping hands as a way to overcome your opponent.

People need to learn the theory then application and see the greatness of Wing Chun then this will demystify all the nonsense by dispelling what is fact from what is make believe by followers or people trying to disprove the system or simply not understanding its foundations.

Watch how Ip Man expresses the movements and when he applies them...............

Creating foot angle placement with purpose

Its all about theory in principles applied when necessary here are some images to illustrate what I mean...............

Here is another video I found that might help clarify............

Simply said another person perception and interpretation of the same foundations of the Wing Chun form in 116 moves basically this here.............. https://www.amazon.com/Wing-Dummy-Techniques-Demonstrated-Grandmaster/dp/9627284033

I hope I have given some food for thought and a better explanation on this that its all the same original base form being Wing Chun, without writing a book so to speak.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

by combining the footwork and body structure that most either intentionally leave out or poorly put into practice as an entire movement.

- To combine structure is important.
- To combine the footwork is even more important.
- Intentional leave out is bad idea.
- Poorly put into practice is no no.

I can see someone finally understands what are truely important in CMA training. "Only moving the arm and freeze the body" is bad, bad, and still bad.

Good habit needs to be developed during day one.

 

[KPM]

Again its about the individual the body type and body mechanics, that in itself creates the illusion there is something new here, when really it's just the same form expressed by a different person.



I hope I have given some food for thought and a better explanation on this that its all the same original base form being Wing Chun, without writing a book so to speak.

Well, I think the point of the OP was that you typically don't see people shifting in their SNT form. The SNT form is meant to teach basic structure and placement, not footwork. Footwork is in the Chum Kiu form. So its really not the "same form". It is Sifu Chow's version of SNT with shifting. Which again, is no big deal. Like Danny T said my guess is that he teaches this as an intermediate level expression of the SNT form before teaching the Chum Kiu form.

 

[FighterTwister]

Well what Wing Chun have you learn't is the question?

Yes there is or suppose to be movement in the actual sets as its part of the frame work and positioning following the hands.

The problem is people teach differently thats all and to add people also have different body mechanics when people observe forms and precision of movement which varies from person to person.

For example in the above video he tends to thrust his hand movement with a snap on the end when others don't, that one thing I noticed straight away.

But we will most likely disagree here because its more about how people teach it, thats where most have difficulty interpreting forms and styles, but there is only one WING CHUN LoL

 

[wckf92]

Well what Wing Chun have you learn't is the question?

Yes there is or suppose to be movement in the actual sets as its part of the frame work and positioning following the hands.

The problem is people teach differently thats all and to add people also have different body mechanics when people observe forms and precision of movement which varies from person to person.

But we will most likely disagree here because its more about how people teach it, thats where most have difficulty interpreting forms and styles, but there is only one WING CHUN LoL

Who are you talking about? (Use the quote function)

 

[FighterTwister]

Anyone or you LoL

Pointless question its not personal, but constructive feedback LoL

 

[FighterTwister]

Chum Kiu Form

Siu Nim Tao Form Application with Foot Work

You see how each person practices slightly different but still the same form and only one Wing Chun system ever taught.

Or what could be said is that its broken over the three sets meaning:-


Step 1 - do this .......then

Step 2 - do this....... and combine footwork.

Step 3 - then do this.......and combine footwork and add this hand movement.

The sequence of learning, does that help, but the footwork is always their its not another system or new branch of Wing Chun.

(The internet and the darn YouTubes create confusion) although I love it, it can be a problem I will see if I can find better videos.

But then again with a global following of Wing Chun there is bound to be differences but that does not mean there is various Wing Chun types of branches its just common sense I guess that things will change over time or variances with teachers in their approach.

Some teachers in order to focus on the lesson might choose to leave out the foot work to make a point about the form or center-line or whatever he is teaching the student or part of that lesson this is not uncommon when instructing a class or a student is the point.

This myth that there are many forms and branches of Wing Chun is fake untrue.

Problem is way to many YouTubes with people teaching slightly differently or making a point thats not properly well thought out from an audience point of view.

Like maybe the video Youtube Title in the first post he obviously did not do the full set but he did however emphasize that he will be speaking about the footwork and shift movement, do you see what I mean.

Maybe I'm not expressing this clearly enough, but I understand this having spent 5 years in Wing Chun myself.

I just get annoyed how people make claims there are other branches of it.

Just study the the root from the Shaolin monks and you'll see what I mean there is only one Wing Chun that simple!

 

[geezer]

He is a student of the late Ng Wah Sum. He moved from Hong Kong to New York in the 70's or 80's. His Wing Chun is very good and similar to most other students of the Leung Sheung lineage. This is just a form he made up.

The weight-shift (and corresponding centerline shift) is familiar to me, but is turning on the heels the standard method in Leung Sheung WC? Somehow I thought maybe they also turned on the center of the foot as some other Yip Man branches do.

 

[FighterTwister]

That first video and all the darn YouTubes are a pain in the rear to be honest because people either mix crap up to explain something or make it a new thing when it is not, to develop their style for a modern culture or other reasons, its a real problem I'm seeing.

Its people that cause confusion, leave things as they are I would strongly suggest!

There is only one Wing Chun system with all the drills or steps whatever people address in the original form which has it all in the full package / concept so to speak.

There are no branches just long linage of teachers and maybe thats where there is poor explanations or subtle errors made in the process of conveying various important aspects of Wing Chun techniques.

Similar to whats happened here:- The point of testing students

I say this because there is allot of drama around this subject which has led to strong arguments online due to the validity of claims as to who's branch teaches this and that and there isn't such a case its all misunderstandings and errors.

Feel free to roam the web and see for yourself the drama, the.......... "Land of Confusion"...............

LOL

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It is Sifu Chow's version of SNT with shifting.

If you have mastered the

1. beginner level form,
2. intermediate level form, and
3. advance level form.

When you go back and do your beginner level form (not teach to your students), will you still use your beginner level method, or will you use your advance level method?

When the long fist master Han Ching-Tan did his beginner level Tantui form, he used the intermediate level "toe push kick (taught in 3rd road Pao Chuan)" that was not taught during the beginner level Tantui training stage.

As far as for teaching, whether you should teach intermediate method, or even advance method during the beginner training stage, that can be another discussion subject. I like to address important principles during day one.

In the following clip, you can see GM Han's front toe push kick is a downward curve (intermediate method) instead of a upward curve (beginner method).

 

[Marnetmar]

To clarify the origin of Chow's Wing Chun, he learned from Ng Wah Sum. The system and forms he teaches are his own because he integrates other methods into his training, that's why it's called Integrative Wing Chun.