A "lost" technique?

[DanT]

In my humble opinion, it doesn't seem that effective of a technique to me for the following reasons:

-being able to wrap both your legs around one of the opponents legs while in live combat on your back doesn't seem to have enough leverage to trip the opponent up to get him to fall.

-crossing one leg over like that seems to provide the opponent with an opportunity to take your back.

Has anyone applied this in sparring or self defence?

 

[DanT]

In my humble opinion, it doesn't seem that effective of a technique to me for the following reasons:

-being able to wrap both your legs around one of the opponents legs while in live combat on your back doesn't seem to have enough leverage to trip the opponent up to get him to fall.

-crossing one leg over like that seems to provide the opponent with an opportunity to take your back.

Has anyone applied this in sparring or self defence?

 

[Midnight-shadow]

In my humble opinion, it doesn't seem that effective of a technique to me for the following reasons:

-being able to wrap both your legs around one of the opponents legs while in live combat on your back doesn't seem to have enough leverage to trip the opponent up to get him to fall.

-crossing one leg over like that seems to provide the opponent with an opportunity to take your back.

Has anyone applied this in sparring or self defence?

When you perform this technique you aren't fully on your back, but on your side. Once your legs are in position you roll onto your front and as long as your legs are in the proper position, your opponent will roll with you onto their front and their leg will be trapped inside yours. In a real fight I would never willingly drop to the ground to perform this technique, but if I get knocked down it can be a good way of recovering from a potentially bad situation.

The second variant (the "back" variation) is the one I would recommend the most, as it puts you in a position where your opponent can't strike back as well as allowing you to pin their leg with your whole body after you take them down. As you can see in the video, you aren't really tripping your opponent, but instead using the connection you have with them to roll them into a compromising position.

 

[DanT]

When you perform this technique you aren't fully on your back, but on your side. Once your legs are in position you roll onto your front and as long as your legs are in the proper position, your opponent will roll with you onto their front and their leg will be trapped inside yours. In a real fight I would never willingly drop to the ground to perform this technique, but if I get knocked down it can be a good way of recovering from a potentially bad situation.

The second variant (the "back" variation) is the one I would recommend the most, as it puts you in a position where your opponent can't strike back as well as allowing you to pin their leg with your whole body after you take them down. As you can see in the video, you aren't really tripping your opponent, but instead using the connection you have with them to roll them into a compromising position.

I actually like it much more now that I've seen that video, it looks more practical than what I was playing through in my head. I guess like any technique there's a time and place for it. Thanks for the vid, I might start looking a bit more into this technique now.

 

[Flying Crane]

In my humble opinion, it doesn't seem that effective of a technique to me for the following reasons:

-being able to wrap both your legs around one of the opponents legs while in live combat on your back doesn't seem to have enough leverage to trip the opponent up to get him to fall.

-crossing one leg over like that seems to provide the opponent with an opportunity to take your back.

Has anyone applied this in sparring or self defence?

It gets used in the very active dynamics of the capoeira roda. I've used it myself, as well as had is successfully used on me, numerous times. The entry and set of the technique needs to be fast and authoritative, or you will miss it. Once, I didn't land it quite how it was intended, and I basically knocked out the other person. The person I was playing against tried to evade when she realized what I was doing, and it resulted in the heel of my foot driving into her maxilla. She was incapacitated, tho not fully unconscious, but took a few minutes to come back to life. She said it felt like her teeth were on fire, the nerve that serves the teeth in the upper jaw got heavily smacked. I did honestly feel bad, it was a friendly game and I wasn't trying to injure her. That can happen in a lively roda when te energy gets high.

But yeah, it works if you know how to approach it.

 

[DanT]

It gets used in the very active dynamics of the capoeira roda. I've used it myself, as well as had is successfully used on me, numerous times. The entry and set of the technique needs to be fast and authoritative, or you will miss it. Once, I didn't land it quite how it was intended, and I basically knocked out the other person. The person I was playing against tried to evade when she realized what I was doing, and it resulted in the heel of my foot driving into her maxilla. She was incapacitated, tho not fully unconscious, but took a few minutes to come back to life. She said it felt like her teeth were on fire, the nerve that serves the teeth in the upper jaw got heavily smacked. I did honestly feel bad, it was a friendly game and I wasn't trying to injure her. That can happen in a lively roda when te energy gets high.

But yeah, it works if you know how to approach it.

Yeah I see what you mean about needing to be authoritative with it, thanks for the input. Ouch, that musta hurt like a bit**.

 

[JR 137]

When you perform this technique you aren't fully on your back, but on your side. Once your legs are in position you roll onto your front and as long as your legs are in the proper position, your opponent will roll with you onto their front and their leg will be trapped inside yours. In a real fight I would never willingly drop to the ground to perform this technique, but if I get knocked down it can be a good way of recovering from a potentially bad situation.

The second variant (the "back" variation) is the one I would recommend the most, as it puts you in a position where your opponent can't strike back as well as allowing you to pin their leg with your whole body after you take them down. As you can see in the video, you aren't really tripping your opponent, but instead using the connection you have with them to roll them into a compromising position.

In my system, we use the second variant (as you called it) as one of our standardized self defenses. But... on our way into the scissors, we throw a side kick to the outside of the knee while we're on the ground. After the scissors, we roll and roundhouse the back of the head. Hard to describe without video, and may not sound too effective, but having it done to you is another matter. After the student gets the standardized way of doing it pretty well, we'll play around with variations like in the video.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In my humble opinion, it doesn't seem that effective of a technique to me for the following reasons:

-being able to wrap both your legs around one of the opponents legs while in live combat on your back doesn't seem to have enough leverage to trip the opponent up to get him to fall.

-crossing one leg over like that seems to provide the opponent with an opportunity to take your back.

Has anyone applied this in sparring or self defence?

I'll give you another time it was used in a more or less "live" environment. In NGA, we do "attack lines" (I've seen the like elsewhere under other names), where one person is on the mats, and the rest of the school takes turns attacking them. On black belts, pretty much any attack is fair. I had an advanced student who walked behind me (we don't turn to them, this is to practice some "surprise" attacks). He grabbed my pant legs and yanked my feet out from under me. By the time my front fall hit the ground, I had shifted my legs and was in position for this technique. He hit harder than I did.

Not the most likely attack, but it shows one place where this can come into play. I might have the same opening if someone shoved me down from behind without warning, and I also show this as a defense if you find yourself on the ground in other situations.

 

[DanT]

I'll give you another time it was used in a more or less "live" environment. In NGA, we do "attack lines" (I've seen the like elsewhere under other names), where one person is on the mats, and the rest of the school takes turns attacking them. On black belts, pretty much any attack is fair. I had an advanced student who walked behind me (we don't turn to them, this is to practice some "surprise" attacks). He grabbed my pant legs and yanked my feet out from under me. By the time my front fall hit the ground, I had shifted my legs and was in position for this technique. He hit harder than I did.

Not the most likely attack, but it shows one place where this can come into play. I might have the same opening if someone shoved me down from behind without warning, and I also show this as a defense if you find yourself on the ground in other situations.

Thanks for the input! Seems like a good example.