A group of A-holes.

[Ironbear24]

Are you serious? This was the primary objection to BJJ all through the 90s. "Ya but, its useless against multiple opponents!" As if THEIR style wasn't lol. Don't play coy.

So what does this have to do with the thread? This is way off topic, there are many other threads you can go to for tma vs mma.

 

[Martial D]

So what does this have to do with the thread? This is way off topic, there are many other threads you can go to for tma vs mma.

As I mentioned previously, I used this as an example. Talk to the people that singled it out and took issue with it.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Are you serious? This was the primary objection to BJJ all through the 90s. "Ya but, its useless against multiple opponents!" As if THEIR style wasn't lol. Don't play coy.

Yup, fully serious. I also was 6 in 1999, so maybe i missed that. But I've not really heard that argument from anyone...most people I know accept that regardless of the style 3v1 isn't very good odds. I HAVE heard that being on the ground puts you compromising if someone else comes along, but that's not suggesting not being on the ground gives you good odds, just that you can run away more easily.

 

[JR 137]

Yup, fully serious. I also was 6 in 1999, so maybe i missed that. But I've not really heard that argument from anyone...most people I know accept that regardless of the style 3v1 isn't very good odds. I HAVE heard that being on the ground puts you compromising if someone else comes along, but that's not suggesting not being on the ground gives you good odds, just that you can run away more easily.

I wrestled for quite some time. I can without a doubt tell you if I’m fighting someone and a buddy or three of his wants to join in on the fun, on the ground with the initial guy is the last place I’d want to be. Not that standing would help me easily fight them off either (I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near a multiple attacker scenario), but at least I could potentially get the hell out of there quicker.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I wrestled for quite some time. I can without a doubt tell you if I’m fighting someone and a buddy or three of his wants to join in on the fun, on the ground with the initial guy is the last place I’d want to be. Not that standing would help me easily fight them off either (I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near a multiple attacker scenario), but at least I could potentially get the hell out of there quicker.

That's exactly the argument I've heard. Not that standing makes you easily win, just that it's better than being on the ground.

 

[Headhunter]

Well definently don't go around throwing punches trying to be tough that'll get you in serious trouble

 

[Ironbear24]

Haven't heard any problems from these dipshits. Looks like we're all in the clear.

 

[hoshin1600]

good to hear

glad you dont have to release a skadoosh on them

 

[Buka]

I was just using that as an example, because the 'defeat multiple opponents with this' is a TMA mainstay. Most of the people that believe this is true are TMA guys that have certainly never fought multiple opponents! (outside of people cooperating in class, anyway)

I've found the opposite to be true. I've never heard a TMA guy have this attitude. It's us non traditional guys that usually say it. But most of us say it because we've trained specifically for it, repeatedly, and have to deal with multiples as part of our profession, which usually takes place on the streets.

EDIT - Included in basic multiple training is a good segment about being on the ground, how to properly cover, attack, take down, and get up, then control.

Second EDIT - If you believe you cannot defeat multiples, you are correct.

 

[Martial D]

I've found the opposite to be true. I've never heard a TMA guy have this attitude. It's us non traditional guys that usually say it. But most of us say it because we've trained specifically for it, repeatedly, and have to deal with multiples as part of our profession, which usually takes place on the streets.

EDIT - Included in basic multiple training is a good segment about being on the ground, how to properly cover, attack, take down, and get up, then control.

Second EDIT - If you believe you cannot defeat multiples, you are correct.

Again, it usually comes part and parcel to arguments regarding what makes tma superior to mma in a 'street' setting. Its old and rehashed to death though magazines, forums, just about anywhere martial arts are talked about.

As for your fantastic prowess of defeating multiple people consistently, that's cool bro. Are you batman?

Just kidding but seriously, 9/10 times the one guy loses, I don't care what you train.

 

[Buka]

Again, it usually comes part and parcel to arguments regarding what makes tma superior to mma in a 'street' setting. Its old and rehashed to death though magazines, forums, just about anywhere martial arts are talked about.

As for your fantastic prowess of defeating multiple people consistently, that's cool bro. Are you batman?

Just kidding but seriously, 9/10 times the one guy loses, I don't care what you train.

Nah, never much cared for Batman, although Christian Bale did a pretty good job in the movies.

If you would like, I'll send you some fairly comprehensive notes concerning dealing with multiples. Obviously won't do much without a course, but it would be a good head start in case the opportunity presents itself. We give them out during training courses, as a reference tool, to remind folks of some principles and tactics.

You can just stash them away in the meantime. And I think you might enjoy them.

 

[Ironbear24]

Pfft, people like Batman learn from people like Buka.

 

[Martial D]

Nah, never much cared for Batman, although Christian Bale did a pretty good job in the movies.

If you would like, I'll send you some fairly comprehensive notes concerning dealing with multiples. Obviously won't do much without a course, but it would be a good head start in case the opportunity presents itself. We give them out during training courses, as a reference tool, to remind folks of some principles and tactics.

You can just stash them away in the meantime. And I think you might enjoy them.

Your a cop right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Generally it's multiple cops taking down one guy. I've surely never seen a cop win when it's the other way around.

I don't doubt you have notes, and courses, and theories for beating multiple opponents. I've read and heard a great deal of this sort of material, some of it quite convincing! I'll grant knowing where to stand and keep your eyes and knowing who to attack first and when etc can help your odds.

So your odds of victory go from extremely remote to highly unlikely.

 

[Buka]

Your a cop right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Generally it's multiple cops taking down one guy. I've surely never seen a cop win when it's the other way around.

I don't doubt you have notes, and courses, and theories for beating multiple opponents. I've read and heard a great deal of this sort of material, some of it quite convincing! I'll grant knowing where to stand and keep your eyes and knowing who to attack first and when etc can help your odds.

So your odds of victory go from extremely remote to highly unlikely.

I am employed as a police officer, yes. But not what I call a real cop, I'm airport police. On Maui. Not exactly a hotbed of high crime.

But here's something for you. nationwide, 40 to 45 % of Police Officers retiring due to injury are the result of action against the officer at the hands of multiple attackers. And the numbers are on the rise. Prison training amongst inmates now keys on multiples against police.

Who to attack first doesn't usually enter the equation. You are in a target rich environment and adapt as you go.

As for odds of victory going from extremely remote to highly unlikely, that may very well be the case with yourself, but it's probably due to lack of proper training and attitude.

I'm going to dig up my notes and send them to you. [even though you don't want them] Tuck them away, they might be of use to you some day. At the very least they'll be food for thought.

 

[Martial D]

I am employed as a police officer, yes. But not what I call a real cop, I'm airport police. On Maui. Not exactly a hotbed of high crime.

But here's something for you. nationwide, 40 to 45 % of Police Officers retiring due to injury are the result of action against the officer at the hands of multiple attackers. And the numbers are on the rise. Prison training amongst inmates now keys on multiples against police.

Who to attack first doesn't usually enter the equation. You are in a target rich environment and adapt as you go.

As for odds of victory going from extremely remote to highly unlikely, that may very well be the case with yourself, but it's probably due to lack of proper training and attitude.

I'm going to dig up my notes and send them to you. [even though you don't want them] Tuck them away, they might be of use to you some day. At the very least they'll be food for thought.

I'm always into reading or training things that are new. I'm actually with you here until the last part. Statistically, you are at far worse odds with every opponent added. 2 guys that work together and know how to fight will beat one most times, add more guys and it gets worse. That's just how it is.

Sure, there are always other factors at play. Size, speed, ability, tactics, etc but those apply to the other guys too. You have to be not only better than every guy attacking you, you have to be better than all of them together.

Excuse me if I take your claims with a grain(jar)of salt.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm always into reading or training things that are new. I'm actually with you here until the last part. Statistically, you are at far worse odds with every opponent added. 2 guys that work together and know how to fight will beat one most times, add more guys and it gets worse. That's just how it is.

Sure, there are always other factors at play. Size, speed, ability, tactics, etc but those apply to the other guys too. You have to be not only better than every guy attacking you, you have to be better than all of them together.

Excuse me if I take your claims with a grain(jar)of salt.

You've added a factor: "that work together and know how to fight". Most evidence I find of multiples (other than gangs) show very little organization between them, and they even get in each other's way at times.

 

[Ironbear24]

You've added a factor: "that work together and know how to fight". Most evidence I find of multiples (other than gangs) show very little organization between them, and they even get in each other's way at times.

Pretty much. There is a drill that we do sometimes where we have to all attack one person and they need to do the best they can to protect themselves.

I often would end up having a hard time to even get to the target due to many people being in my way.