52 Blocks on Wing Chun Dummy

[KPM]

 

[Nobody Important]

This is interesting. I don't know much about 52 Blocks, but from what you show in the video I, personally, don't see anything different from the Wing Chun I studied other than terminology. How is 52 Blocks different? Approach, strategy, techniques? Just trying to get a better understanding of the method, thanks.

 

[KPM]

52 Blocks is a very defensive method. It is based primarily on covers and meant to be used in tight spaces. Lyte Burly calls it a "pressure relief method".....meaning you feel the pressure of the attack and "weather the storm" and then fill the gap that the opponent leaves, with your own counter-punches. Many of the "blocks" or covers can also be elbow strikes when used offensively. One training method is "slap boxing", or using palm strikes instead of punches. If you don't have any protective equipment, then throwing palms against the partner's "blocks" is more forgiving than using fists. But in application the palm strikes can be very effective and avoid a broken hand! But 52 still uses the western boxing "engine" or biomechanics. The footwork is very "light" and fast with evasive body movement because the emphasis is on defense, but again...the idea is to be able to survive a barrage of punches until you can land your own shots.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

the idea is to be able to survive a barrage of punches until you can land your own shots.

I don't understand this strategy. Why not just wrap his punching arm during his 1st or 2nd punch?

After you have wrapped your opponent's punching arm, you can:

- headbutt him,
- palm strike him,
- elbow him,
- take him down,
- ...

At least you can put your opponent in defense mode instead of to let your opponent to put you in defense mode.

I do understand a striker may think differently from a wrestler. But after you have taken your opponent down, you can still punch him in the ground game if you want to.

 

[KPM]

I don't understand this strategy. Why not just wrap his punching arm during his 1st or 2nd punch?

That does happen! One of the "blocks" is called "Book Reading Stance" and it is explicitly an arm trap/wrap. But it isn't as easy as you seem to think when an opponent is throwing combinations of fast hard punches!

 

[KPM]

Here is a video I made last summer. I wasn't even thinking of 52 Blocks at the time. But what I am showing here is essentially the "Close Door/Open Door" block. And John, note that arm wrap! ;-)

 

[hoshin1600]

for those looking for info on 52 blocks. its a way of fighting developed in prisons. there have been a few questions asked so far in this thread maybe the context of being in prison might help in understanding the tactics and strategies.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here is a video I made last summer. I wasn't even thinking of 52 Blocks at the time. But what I am showing here is essentially the "Close Door/Open Door" block. And John, note that arm wrap! ;-)

We need to look at "fist fight" from a different angle here.

When you put your hand too close to your own head, you give your opponent too much free space to generate his fast and powerful punches. It's like to set up your anti-missile system at Washington DC and allow your enemy's missiles to fly freely in the US air space. IMO, you should knock down enemy missiles outside of the US coastline.

WC people don't like to chase hand. But if your opponent's hand will give you trouble, chase hand can be a good strategy. You don't chase hand. You chase the upper arm of that hand instead. It's not that difficult to extend your arm between your opponent's head and his arm. The opportunity will always be there. The moment that your opponent's hand moves away from his head, the moment that opponent will offer to you.

 

[KPM]

When you put your hand too close to your own head, you give your opponent too much free space to generate his fast and powerful punches.

---Maybe! But it is a strategy that has worked well for Boxers as well as 52 Blocks guys for several generations now! ;-)

 

[KPM]

As a follow up....I started this thread showing some 52 Blocks on the dummy. Here is some 52 Blocks on BOB.

 

[Nobody Important]

As a follow up....I started this thread showing some 52 Blocks on the dummy. Here is some 52 Blocks on BOB.

Hi Keith,

Admittedly I know very little of 52 Blocks, but so far, what you have shown is absolutely no different shape wise, technique wise or use wise than the Wing Chun I studied. Perhaps the Wing Chun I studied is a little different than others, but those covers can easily be found in the San Sik and forms, so I doubt it is all that different from other Wing Chun branches in that respect. What sets 52 Blocks apart from what appears to be a Wing Chun/Boxing hybrid? So far as I can tell it's about weathering a storm but avoiding the clinch. Perhaps I'm way off base here but I'm not seeing much to differentiate it from Wing Chun as I know it. Can you give a little more insight?

 

[KPM]

^^^^ Dave, we have to get together for some training and sharing some time! I would love to see how you are applying your Wing Chun! Because most Ip Man Wing Chun people would not say what you are saying or see what you are seeing! But what you are seeing is exactly why I like 52 Blocks so much and am using it as the Boxing side of my own "Wing Chun Boxing." I don't think these similarities between 52 and Wing Chun are by design. Lyte Burly has studied Wing Chun in the past, but he didn't create 52 Blocks. It has been around for a long time, and his teacher Rahmel Scott never studied any Wing Chun. Maybe it is because both 52 Blocks and Wing Chun are meant to be "close-range" fighting methods.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't understand this strategy. Why not just wrap his punching arm during his 1st or 2nd punch?

After you have wrapped your opponent's punching arm, you can:

- headbutt him,
- palm strike him,
- elbow him,
- take him down,
- ...

At least you can put your opponent in defense mode instead of to let your opponent to put you in defense mode.

I do understand a striker may think differently from a wrestler. But after you have taken your opponent down, you can still punch him in the ground game if you want to.

I think it's time to make you a Rhino Guard T-shirt.

Here's my idea submission for your t-shirt design. lol.

I'll have to change it a little so that the image is unique. I got a template ready to go. lol

You can send the $50,000 check for the design to....... lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here is a video I made last summer. I wasn't even thinking of 52 Blocks at the time. But what I am showing here is essentially the "Close Door/Open Door" block. And John, note that arm wrap! ;-)

Question. I know that there are a lot of things that one can do. So this isn't a right or wrong question that I'm about to ask. I just want to know the reasoning behind the application.

Question: In what situation would you perform this technique instead of spearing just spearing the person in the face or in the chest. If the arm is up already it would seem that only a shuffle forward would allow you to land a devastating strike. So with that in mind. In what context would this technique that you show be used? Does the technique open it up for a different technique? I don't take WC so it's not going to be clear for me to see this on my own.

Oh by the way I don't have any sound, on this computer so if the explanation is in the video then I'll make a note to watch it again when I get some sound on this computer.

 

[Nobody Important]

^^^^ Dave, we have to get together for some training and sharing some time! I would love to see how you are applying your Wing Chun! Because most Ip Man Wing Chun people would not say what you are saying or see what you are seeing! But what you are seeing is exactly why I like 52 Blocks so much and am using it as the Boxing side of my own "Wing Chun Boxing." I don't think these similarities between 52 and Wing Chun are by design. Lyte Burly has studied Wing Chun in the past, but he didn't create 52 Blocks. It has been around for a long time, and his teacher Rahmel Scott never studied any Wing Chun. Maybe it is because both 52 Blocks and Wing Chun are meant to be "close-range" fighting methods.

If other Chunners aren't applying these basic positions, I can see why people are often confused by my comments. In all honesty, if you hadn't stated this was 52 Blocks I would have thought it was just another Wing Chun video.

Whenever you want to get together send me a pm, I've got some trips coming up so my availability is somewhat limited for the next year, but I might be able to squeeze some time in.

 

[KPM]

Question: In what situation would you perform this technique instead of spearing just spearing the person in the face or in the chest. If the arm is up already it would seem that only a shuffle forward would allow you to land a devastating strike. So with that in mind. In what context would this technique that you show be used? Does the technique open it up for a different technique? I don't take WC so it's not going to be clear for me to see this on my own.

---Its all a matter of distance and timing. When someone is throwing fast and hard punches you just cover up and then throw back your own punches. If you are both moving forward at the same time then it becomes practical to spear them with the elbow into the chest or shoulder. The danger there is that if they are backing up and you don't land it well, then they can pull your head down and hammer away!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When someone is throwing fast and hard punches you just cover up and then throw back your own punches.

If your opponent has a "Chinese zombie guard" with both arms straight and fully extended. You can punch

1. from the right side of his right arm (his right side door),
2. from the left side of his left arm (his left side door),
3. between his arms (his front door),

In side door 1, and 2, his arm can be functioned as the WC Tan Shou. In front door 3, both of his hands can hook punch on your head. The front door 3 can be considered as a trap that invite you to come in. When your hands are close to his head or body, his hands are also close to your head.

If your opponent's arms are as strong as the WC wooden dummy's arms and you can't chop his arms off, how will you punch him and not let his hands to reach to your head at the same time?

 

[Anarax]

We have a lot of those entries and covers in Kali.

 

[KPM]

If your opponent's arms are as strong as the WC wooden dummy's arms and you can't chop his arms off, how will you punch him and not let his hands to reach to your head at the same time?

That's what the "bob & weave" is for! ;-)

 

[KPM]

There are different versions of 52 Blocks. Here is a guy that does things a little different than Lyte Burly. John....check out 8:07. This guy uses your Rhino guard! Also note the section where he shows the knife. Looks a lot like Silat!