2 more months can't hurt...right?

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by skribs, May 25, 2018.

  1. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Here’s the difference one weight class can make...

    One of my wrestlers when I was coaching had a decent chance of qualifying for the state tournament at 98 lbs. no way he would’ve won it, and qualifying for the tournament would’ve been difficult but possible.

    At 91, he won the state title. Pinned his opponent early in the second period.

    At 167 I had a two time state champ I needed to beat to get to the state tournament, which was never going to happen. And there were 3 other guys who gave him a hard time. At 155, I had a good chance if the tournament played out right. I took second in the qualifiers (eliminating me) at 155. I’d have been out the second round at 167.
     
  2. dvcochran

    dvcochran 2nd Black Belt

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    I found that a curious comment about paying money every month to keep your rank. What was your reasoning? I feel taking a test at five specific points in time over 3 years is devaluing to the whole higher Dan belt ranking system. Do you mean you are given certain chunks of the curriculum over time? I never know exactly when my next BB test is going to be. I do know I have definite curriculum to learn between belts, that the proficiency is important and I better be ready for when it happens. As much for my personal satisfaction with the promotion as anything else. Saying you are not ready is frowned upon. We may get a few month to "prep" and polish but that is not nearly enough time to learn everything needed to promote. FYI, it is very, very seldom someone promotes on the minimum time anniversary.
     
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  3. dvcochran

    dvcochran 2nd Black Belt

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    Congrat's on promoting @JR 137 ! Good to hear someone with the same viewpoint.
     
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  4. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I just realized I forgot to say congratulations, so...ummm... congratulations!

    Sorry, I meant to say it in my original reply to this post.
     
  5. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Thank you.
     
  6. dvcochran

    dvcochran 2nd Black Belt

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    penultimate. Cool, Ijust learned a new word!
     
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  7. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    The curriculum is given to chunks based on your rank. So a 3rd dan will learn the chunks to get 1st gup, and 1st gup the chunks to get 2nd gup and so on. You test when you're ready for the gup. There's also the KKW rules of minimum times to test. In order to test for 4th dan, I will have to have been a 3rd dan for a minimum of 3 years (for KKW rules) and be 3rd dan, 4th gup (school rules).

    So I could test in December for 1st gup, February for 2nd gup, April for 3rd gup, and June for 4th gup, and then wait just over 2 years and test for 4th dan. Or I could test for 1st gup in a year, 2nd gup in a year, 3rd gup in a year, and 4th gup in a year, and then test right away for 4th dan because it's been 4 years.

    My plan is somewhere in the middle to do the gup tests roughly every 6 months, which will give me a year to get ready to go from 4th gup to 4th dan.

    ----

    One thing I think it does is keep people coming. People tend to get their degree and then take time off before coming back and expect to catch back up right away. People will take a break and do another activity for several months, go on long vacations, or something else. So it does keep people coming back because in order to get your next degree, there's 2 requirements that need to be met.
     
  8. _Simon_

    _Simon_ 2nd Black Belt

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    Ah crap also forgot haha, congrats bro that's awesome :)
     
  9. _Simon_

    _Simon_ 2nd Black Belt

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    Yeah I can see the value in that in a way, it perhaps even shows a greater commitment from the student, as there are particulr requirements along the way.

    But one thing I've always liked is the 2 years for 2nd Dan, 3 years for 3rd Dan etc... just think it's a cool setup, and allows you alot of time to really deepen your understanding and practice at that grade. It was the reason I took my sweet *** time for my gradings!
     
  10. dvcochran

    dvcochran 2nd Black Belt

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    I am guessing I jumped in the middle of the conversation. Are you a 3rd Dan that has moved schools and are quickly navigating up through the gup ranks? Of course I don't know what style you are talking about but usually gup ranks start at 10th or 9th and go to 1st gup. Are you saying you only have to get to 4th gup (high green or blue) to test for 4th Dan? I don't think I could learn a new color belt curriculum in a few months.
     
  11. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    No, his school is one of those that have geup ranks (colored belts) and then Dan ranks with geup ranks (it's not really a correct usage of the word) between Dan ranks. It's one of those Stars and Bells and Stripes things like what was discussed in another thread recently. It's more commonly done with kids ranks, but this isn't the first school I've seen that did it with Dan ranks too.
     
  12. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Not to speak for him, but my understanding of it is those are ranks between dan ranks, not colored belt ranks. So there’s 1.0 dan, 1.1 dan, 1.2 dan, etc. And you test for the .1, .2,.3, etc.

    My former school did something similar at kyu/colored ranks. So let’s say I’m a blue belt. After a little while, I’m “tested” on my kata for that rank. I pass that, I get a strip of electrical tape on my belt. Then s little while later I’m tested on one-steps and other standardized stuff. I pass that, and I get another strip of electrical tape. With both “tests” passed, I’m eligible to test for my next rank. I put test in quotes because it wasn’t a formal test, per se. we got called up in front of the class, did our thing, critiqued each other, then got the stripe on our belt if we were up to standards. No fees, nothing special about it. That was only at kyu levels, not dan levels. My current school doesn’t do that. Not sure how I’d feel about that at black belt level, but to each his own.
     
  13. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    Keub is colored belt. Gup (pronounced like "up" with a g in front of it) are the between dan ranks.
     
  14. dvcochran

    dvcochran 2nd Black Belt

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    I suppose that works for physically and temporarily learning a technique but there is something of value gained when you have to prove you know all the requirements for a belt at the same time. Repetition, repetition, repetition. I wonder how the person who tested that way does when at their next test the instructor says "starting at basic 1 do all your forms" or one steps or kicks, etc... There just seems to be a mental preparedness value that is not being measured or learned when you test that way. Spoon fed?
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    It depends what the purpose of the test is. I want students to eventually remember every named technique and form, but that’s mostly not what I’m testing for. I’m testing physical ability, so some tests are split, to ensure the focus is on the technique, rather than their memory of a list.

    Neither is wrong, just testing for different things.
     
  16. dvcochran

    dvcochran 2nd Black Belt

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    I agree that only knowing a technique physically (sort of) is part of the learning process. Especially for kids and color belts. If we are to truly hold and keep the levels of BB at the heralded level we want it to be, plus the fact that you have years instead of months to learn the curriculum, shouldn't more be expected? My 3rd Dan testing was rough. Over the course of 5-6 hours I did all the basic, Pinon, and Palgwe forms (no stinking Taegeuk's). Then 8 WTF forms ( not Ilyo), and Kong San Geun multiple times (think teaching dummy), 35 one-steps in succession probably 4-5 times each while my GM used me as a training tool, and sparred every BB and adult color belt. About 20 sparring sessions. Except for the one time I did all 35 one steps in a row everything was broken up and very random making it much more mentally difficult (for me). I have been in some bad stand-off situations that certainly peak your stress for a short amount of time, but have never had anything stress me as bad as that testing did for so long. It started hard and finished hard. Oh yea, I had to do several breaks, 6 or 8. About the middle of the day I was told to do a running jump spinning side kick on 4 boards. On my first attempt (right after a long sparring session)I missed on my alignment and my heel slid off the edge of the boards knocking me off balance. I landed rolled up on my right ankle. I thought it was a bad sprain and kept going, making the break on my next try and continued testing for 3-4 more hours. By the end of the day my ankle was huge. Went to my ortho the next day and found I had sheared off a quarter size piece of bone on my ankle that had to be removed. I am not really sure how I was able to shut out the pain and keep going but the whole testing is an example of the mental value I am trying to make a point of.
     
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  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    That’s a valid approach. And t has some strong points. I haven’t decided yet (haven’t had to, within my curriculum) decided whether I’m going the stress-testing route for BB testing. Depending when those parts are learned, they may be easy memory by that point. I’m not big on confounding memory testing with skill testing. I expect students to know all 50 names techniques (similar to your 1-steps) and all 5 forms. But I don’t yet require them to name them - to recall the list. I name the technique or form and expect them to know what it is and do it well.
     
  18. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    @gpseymour

    I get the feeling in a lot of threads that a lot of people look at my posts and say "your school is different from mine, therefore your school is wrong." It's nice to see someone who realizes there are different teaching methods for different schools.
     
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  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, yours is wrong. :p

    Seriously, yep. I've taken a long look at the testing styles I've not experienced to see what the advantages are. I've found some useful advantages in most testing styles, including not testing and/or no ranks all the way up to long, difficult tests that include things that aren't directly related to physical skills for MA. I actually have an affinity for several approaches, so have had trouble deciding which method I want to use. That led me to use different testing approaches at different levels.
     
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  20. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    Our school has a different testing style for hapkido than taekwondo. The TKD test is more about memorization and stamina. Hapkido is more about the application.
     
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