15 Taekwondo Blackbelts In MMA

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Stuart, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. Stuart

    Stuart Yellow Belt

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    Video here profiling 15 Taekwondo blackbelts in MMA.

    Many of these are far from pure Taekwondo blackbelts, nevertheless in my opinion they have achieved some kind of benefit from training in Taekwondo and it has been better than not training it.

    What are your views on Taekwondo?

    Mcdojo nonsense or useful for developing some low percentage moves that are useful for mixing in to your arsenal, more so in a sporting rather than a self defense context?
     
  2. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Far too broad brush strokes here. You've lumped all TKD into one group and asked for an opinion on it, you are only going to get opinions from those who have done or who do it and those who know nothing about it but are biased against it.

    MMA is what it says on the tine MIXED martials arts blended together by the user to make something that works for competition, it's not indicative of any one style but rather how well the fighter can use the many techniques you can find in different styles.

    I have known some fierce TKD practitioners, capable of taking on most all comers, I've known some pathetic MMA fighters as well as highly skilled ones.

    I think you are on the verge of style bashing with your post as you as describing TKD as something that is not a good style. As with other styles you cannot generalise in that way, yes there are McDojos who teach TKD but there's others that teach karate, kick boxing, MMA etc. However there's a great many TKD places that teach serious martial arts and are highly competent.
     
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  3. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    TKD has probably the most robust syllabus of kicks, and the best 'version' of many of them. Going to tkd to get good kicking skills is as good a place to get them as anywhere.
     
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  4. O'Malley

    O'Malley Green Belt

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    Could you please elaborate a bit on this? I'd be very interested in hearing about the reasons behind this (rather strong) statement. Not to say that I disagree, it's just an interesting topic.
     
  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    have you ever been hit with a properly exicuted TKD kick ? i have ! that the end of the fight, either your on the floor or your leg doesnt work any more
     
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  6. O'Malley

    O'Malley Green Belt

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    Nope, unfortunately I've never had that opportunity. But that can be said about a lot of martial arts. I once held the kicking shield for a Kyokushin Karate instructor. He raised his leg, paused and said "see, it goes horizontally like... this!". When he hit the shield, the strike had so much power that I felt that my body had been cut in half. Without any momentum. Some of it must be due to me not being used to holding the shield but that one kick sure made an impression.
     
  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well yes, and TKD kicks are generaly held to be the hardest, as their body mechanics are the best. its a kicking sport, they really should be good
     
  8. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    I mean its MIXED martial arts. Generally speaking most people in it dabble in a lot of styles and merge it together to work in MMA. You cant be a TKD purist and work well in MMA. Likewsie you cant in pretty much anything.


    edit: As for my view, im meh on TKD. Which should be evident of the amount of arguments i get in over it. :p
     
  9. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Have you ever trained in TKD? At more than one place so you get a good views of it.
     
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  10. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    I have done 2 diffrent orgs. I take issue with their general marketing, to state you teach self defence in my view, you need to cover certain things from the offset and do certain things, they dont do those things. Secondly to that, some orginsiations seem to just be mcdojo bait. Thirdly just generic politics for some of them turns me off it. It just seems like a broken down version of karate with a korean twist to it to be honest. Some of these arent specfic to TKD, but they do them so it makes me feel meh towards them. Almost forgot about the belts, i take issue with that and the elitism belts can bring/codified ranks beyond student and teacher.

    Not much i can bring to that, as this isnt a "whats good and bad about TKD thread". Furthermore to that, it doesnt meet my particular goals so the statment "i am meh on it" seems perfectly fair. (the least bias statement i have done about TKD on this site to date i feel.) Further detail and argument on the matter and my personal views seems like it should be put into a seperate thread on the matter.




    Also, you would hard pressed to not find a gem in anything. its quite hard to find a martial art that you cannot take soemthing out of, even if its what not to do. TKD is clearly based in sport for the most part, but you can learn some things about self defence in sport. To reply to the last point in the OP, i didnt see it until re reading. :p
     
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  11. Parzival

    Parzival Green Belt

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    Pretty sure it's not the martial arts style, but the training style that determines skill. If TKD dudes train like most MMA dudes, they'll smoke the MMA guys if they train like a lot of the westernized TKD schools do
     
  12. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think the problem is that the OP has made it a 'TKD is rubbish but is there anything good in it at all' thread.

    The marketing issue I think is one that is separate from the actual style, marketing in itself is big business these days so it's not a surprise. There's also the issue of many people teaching 'self defence' genuinely thinking it is good when it's not. I haven't seen the lot of marketing with the TKD places I've visited but then we are all mostly small club type places who don't do it for the money.
     
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  13. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    It mainly boils down to the fact that in TKD sparring, kicking is anywhere from 80%-99% of the technique you'll use. This leads to all of these reasons:
    1. Iron sharpens iron, their kicks get better through live sparring
    2. Simple muscle memory that if the majority of your class is devoted to kicking, you'll be more proficient with the kicks than someone who spends 10-20% of their classes on kicking
    3. If I remember correctly, the Kukkiwon has a research center to improve kicks. We've seen innovation in kicking over the last 20 years (such as moving from the spin heel kick to the spin hook kick)
    The counter-argument is that since TKD is mostly a point game, the kicks aren't the version you'd use in a real fight. While technically true, that doesn't mean we can't also do that version of a kick.

    I'd be more interested in him getting more than 2-3 months, and to the point where he at least learns one form. He could go to ten different schools and not learn much if he doesn't stick around.
     
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  14. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    Its more because its put on EVERYTHING. Yet i would view learning breakfalls and rolls as a improtant skill for actual self defence alongside with conflict management etc etc. By far TKD is not the only ting that does this, its equally annoying to me though.

    In regards to schools, the first one i did i would say is fine for the sport of TKD. But they wernt independent of a org, not members of the big 2 international ones though. the second one i did felt was a little ehh in places was a TAGB one, adding onto the fact i think they did a self defence drill segment because i was new to keep me around after a trial peroid, it had a few issues in it. Like resetting to hips and non adaptive drills. (the old punch to the groin so you can hit them in the face if they are taller than you to be precise, i was slightly taller if not the same heigh as the teacher and am average height) this is going from, keep your guard up at all times by the way. I think TAGB tends to be hit and miss, might be the U.K version of the ATF. Obviously if i take issue with a org and want to boycot it, it mens not attending any of the schools affiliated with it.


    So both the schools i have been to have been through orgs, and the currculem for belts decided by the org. Liked the first one more and would say is a good TKD school, the second one i would say is fair. Neither i would call mc dojo's, not been a TKD mc dojo. Even then i saw a diffrence in how they did the self defence classes or side of their currculem. (granted i have only been to one class for it in one, and they tagged it onto the end for another, pretty sure to entice me to keep going as it was still part of the trial peroid)


    Its just really weird how TKD has gone, as it has people who think its for fighting and ignoring the big sport element it now has and that being the majorty of schools, then second to that is more spirtual/fitness side. The minorty seems to be about using TKD for fighting in the modern age or for self defence. (which as i have made apprant is my main reason for persuing martial arts)
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning on this. I have pretty good breakfalls, but I don't see them as anything like necessary from a SD standpoint. Useful? Perhaps, but not nearly as useful as a good front kick, IMO.
     
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  16. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    My breakfalls if I have to do them Judo style ie without being thrown are non existent but when thrown I do a good breakfall if that makes sense. I'm struggling to see how useful a breakfall is in SD other than not being winded or shaken up unduly if you did happen to be thrown.
     
  17. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    Well I can't answer this with the degree of accuracy that someone that trains TKD might, but my head coach is a tkd BB and thus teaches many tkd elements in our kicking, so I do speak with a certain degree of certainty.

    It's a style that focuses on kicking as it's primary weapon, and has a great variety of fast powerful kicks. The speed and power which the way they throw facilitates, as well as hiding almost all of them behind the same opening chamber, makes them both deceptive and effective with minimal setup, which translates well to competion or fighting.
     
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  18. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    Given the TKD currciulem has jump kicks in it, it should be taught at a low level. My logic for it is just down to you can be knocked down, trip, fall etc in fighting so learning how to fall without adverse injury should be a priority to learn first as a basic safety mechanism.
     
  19. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    The most dangerous weapon in a streetfight is the ground. The overwhelming majority of injuries and fatalities come from people having their heads slammed on the ground, or injured arms and shoulders from impact. Knowing how to mitigate that is arguably the most useful SD skill of all(aside from situational awareness and being able to run fast)
     
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  20. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I don't follow your logic at all here. Just because something is in the curriculum, doesn't mean it should be taught at the low level. It means it should be taught at the appropriate level of the curriculum.123
     

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