13 yr old kid killed by police over replica gun

Discussion in 'The Study' started by Bob Hubbard, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Staff Member

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    Deputies are on leave in a California town after shooting and killing a 13 yr old kid who was carrying a replica firearm. Police say they ordered the kid to drop the object and when the kid turned without dropping it he was shot and killed. Witnesses say no order to drop was given and deputies fired without warning. More details at the link below.

    http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/north_bay&id=9297937
     
  2. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Grandmaster

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    I am going out on a limb here, but I would call that a bad toy. LOL
     
  3. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    sad.

    but one would assume a kid of that age would know when the police is pointing guns at you, you do as they tell you....

    Then again, I have encountered really unworldly 13 yo as of late...
     
  4. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Grandmaster

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    Lets assume the kid is deaf or only knows Tagal or something. The Police have lost a lot of fellows over hesitation; so, I just don't think they are all that out of line, but this is tragic no matter how you look at it.
    Sean
     
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Tragic indeed, but it's far from clear that there was any wrongdoing here. Let's wait and see what the investigation shows.
     
  6. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Grandmaster

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    I dont know what I'd do if I shot a kid with a toy I'd loose it
     
  7. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Sad but nowadays, the cops can't take any chances. Just because open carry may be allowed, who open carries a gun like that? Have to love the comment by the kids friend:

    "you could just tell him to put it down," said Lopez's friend Gabriel Roque."

    Well, if what the cops are saying is true, they did tell him and he didn't, so he got shot. I also don't hold much faith in the guy who witnessed this while 50ft away in his car.

    I know I'm asking for a lot here, but hopefully, things work out well. We can see just by the comments alone in that article, that the usual is happening...the cops are automatically the bad guys.
     
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    An officer buddy in the Army very nearly gave an order to shoot a kid in the first Gulf War. From a distance it looked like someone carrying an anti-tank weapon. He had his sergeant prepare to fire, but hesitated. It turned out to be a kid with a fender from a demolished car. He said almost shooting the kid was the scariest thing that happened to him in the whole war. He gave the kid a candy bar and moved on.
     
  9. Instructor

    Instructor Master Black Belt

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    In the mid 90's I was on patrol ( I patrolled in those days) and came upon a couple of youths in a residential area with a long gun that looked convincingly like a rifle to me. I drew my weapon charged a round and took cover behind my vehicle and ordered the child to drop the gun. He then did the scariest thing ever, he pointed it at me.

    I was within my rights to shoot him. But I didn't.... Eventually I managed to get him to put it down. It was a rather real looking BB gun. I guess that day I made the right choice but shooting him might also have been the right choice... It's the kind of paradox that police struggle with.
     
  10. Takai

    Takai Senior Master

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    The antithesis to this whole issues is that civilians (who haven't been trained) will never respond like a LEO will. As a civilian they don't deal with the daily threats to life and limb. It is easy to be an "armchair quarterback" after the fact. LEO's has a very different view of the world and regularly see a much darker side than we will ever (hopefully) see As such, they perceive the world through a different filter than we would.

    I grew up with family in both Fire and Law Enforcement. I still hear my Uncle telling me the "1st" rule...At the end of tour we go home.

    This is certainly a tragic situation but, when an officer feels threatened he is trained to respond. While nothing will ever bring that boy back, I hope that the investigation ends well for the officers and that they media can refrain from being Judge, Jury and Executioner.
     
  11. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    Ive seen a lot of people spouting the good old "why didn't they taze him's" and "why didn't they shoot him in the leg" misconceptions...

    Next time you have to deal with someone you honestly believe has an AK47 let me know how good of an idea you think either of those are.

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
     
  12. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Grandmaster

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    Its not even that so much me getting home and more about What happens next if I get killed. Change this to a real gun near a school. I hesitate and dont shoot and the kid takes me out. Then continues on to the school and kills 10 more kids.
     
  13. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    One of my first patrol sergeants put it as "its not all about going home at all costs...its about not being paid to get killed".

    Yes I accept the risk of death as part of taking this job. I accept that going into a building after an active shooter may result in my death. Its not like I wouldnt go in because it's "all about going home".

    What I don't accept is people thinking I should approach someone with what looks like an assault rifle with 30' of Taser wire because me getting killed in a hail of bullets is what some people seem to think of as an "acceptable risk" against the chance that that rifle is actually an airsoft gun.

    I don't get paid to get killed.

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  14. granfire

    granfire Sr. Grandmaster

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    too much Miami Vice:
    The bad guys lay down a curtain of lead and hit nothing, while the good guys squeeze off two rounds killing 5 bad guys...

    Guns are the great equalizer: even a weak fellow - or a child - can off you in a heart beat!
     
  15. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Grandmaster

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    Im not sure Id let my kid play with a "toy" like that in public. Actually Im positive I wouldnt let him.
     
  16. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    I think this is also why the witnesses didn't hear the command to drop it. Depending where you are in the OODA loop, you might not process hearing such a thing.

    Back when I lived in Mass. And worked 2nd shift, I was impacted by an explosion. It was 130 AM, and I was driving home. As I approached the exit for my house, a nearby solvent factory blew up, sending flames 200 feet in the air. I was still on the highway. I remember the blast blowing my car uncontrollably in to the outer lane. I remember the sudden drop in barometric pressure and how it immediately made me feel so achy I felt like I had instantly caught the flu. I remember the damage to the sidewalks, and the huge fireball, and how my neighbors thought it was the old Eastern Propane storage yard that blew up. (I don't think anyone knew that right in our proverbial back yard was a 5-employee plant that made ridiculously volatile paints)

    I don't remember the sound of the explosion. It happened. It was loud, and heard for miles. People asked me what it sounded like, I kept saying I didn't hear it. I was only a mile away, of course I heard it. But I didn't process it.


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    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  17. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Grandmaster

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    I think hearing is one of the first things to go. When I was in a shooting i fired 5 shots never heard anything. But I remember my vision has never been that clear. I could see every little detail like the spent brass exiting my gun I could watch it like slow motion.
     
  18. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

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    Absolutely. My father had a conniption when we would "play guns" because he wanted us to alway follow the safety rules he taught us, even when we played. It's tragic that so many poor examples of firearm use exist in the media and culture. Without some sort of guidance, it's so easy to learn something really dangerous...like this.
     

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