1 week transformation

[Phobius]

Exactly they're using this kid to advertise themselves and nothing more just like hoshin said

Or advertising the program so that other kids understand that there may be a way out of their own situation. Someone that is willing to help them. Advertisement is by default evil does not necessarily mean it is all evil.

 

[jobo]

. one week...i mean come on. if i had felt some sympathy for some one (and i have actually done this) he should have given him free lessons period, not this one week ...

here the bit where you say I week isn't good enough, that you keep saying you didn't post

 

[hoshin1600]

here the bit where you say I week isn't good enough, that you keep saying you didn't post

Like I said your putting your own meaning into things people write. I know what I wrote and I know what my intended meaning was. There is nothing in that sentence that addresses quality of training. Not one word. The sentence says exactly what I wrote. "If he felt sympathy, ,he should have given him free lessons period "... I'm sorry you have an issue understanding people. It happens a lot. You should think about that and self reflect a bit.
Now I'm moving on from this subject.

 

[jobo]

Like I said your putting your own meaning into things people write. I know what I wrote and I know what my intended meaning was. There is nothing in that sentence that addresses quality of training. Not one word. The sentence says exactly what I wrote. "If he felt sympathy, ,he should have given him free lessons period "... I'm sorry you have an issue understanding people. It happens a lot. You should think about that and self reflect a bit.
Now I'm moving on from this subject.

no not the quality, but you can't deny thy you are saying the duration is insufficient,

 

[Brian King]

5 year follow up on the young man in the OP video. Very nice turn around.
Hat tip to the Gracie's involved, the young man, and his family.

 

[Headhunter]

5 year follow up on the young man in the OP video. Very nice turn around.
Hat tip to the Gracie's involved, the young man, and his family.

Doesn't actually say if he carried on Jiu Jitsu it just said he graduated and joined the marines

 

[jobo]

Doesn't actually say if he carried on Jiu Jitsu it just said he graduated and joined the marines

well if he has joined the marines, one can assume that there have been some significant changes in the young man in 5years

 

[Gerry Seymour]

how many hours did he train,? We don't know, let's say 20 that's equivalent to 20 weeks at an hour a week, how is that not sufficient to gain a strip and a large benefit from it ?

it really doesn't take long to teach someone to be able to defend them shelves against an untrained attacker

Actually, it's not equivalent. There's a concept called "distributed learning" - we learn more when the learning is distributed over time than when it is concentrated (assuming the same total learning time).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

no, I help a kid realise he could look after himself, he only had to be good enough to beat another nine you,up, what he has learnt after that is entirely down to him.

you seem to be basing this on yourself and your limitations,people can get quite good at a lot of things with a few weeks practise.

when he,was about 18 there was a bit of road rage developing over a parking space, I was about to get out and have a word with this chap, when he jumps out and says" talk to me like that and il push your teeth down your throat" I thought my work here is done

So, you thought that was a good choice?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My main thing is why show it. They want to help then great but why does it need to be filmed and the video of the girl being assaulted shared to an even wider audience. Why can't they just do it without having to make a fuss over it

I can't see any problem with them using it for advertising. Good acts don't become inherently less good just because there's a chance to gain from them. The Gracies run a business, and if doing some good (their view) can also profit the business, that's a win-win solution.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Exactly they're using this kid to advertise themselves and nothing more just like hoshin said

I can't really agree with the "and nothing more" part. They can attempt to do good AND advertise with it. Many companies do this. They'll sponsor some charity event for a cause that means something to them, and get publicity from the sponsorship.

 

[Headhunter]

I can't see any problem with them using it for advertising. Good acts don't become inherently less good just because there's a chance to gain from them. The Gracies run a business, and if doing some good (their view) can also profit the business, that's a win-win solution.

To me it makes the kid more of a target firstly they share this traumatic event with the whole world then they tell everyone that he's now training martial arts. That could prompt other bullies to challenge him to see how good he is and just cause more trouble for him and he wouldn't be able to deal with it because as I've said one week of Jiu Jitsu is no where near enough to be able to apply it properly

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Doesn't actually say if he carried on Jiu Jitsu it just said he graduated and joined the marines

This is one of those areas @Steve and I often bandy back and forth. We can't in any way definitively say the Gracies' actions helped get the kid to where he is now. Many kids had turn-arounds without MA, and many attribute their turnarounds to specific activities or mentors (footbal, martial arts, drama class, whatever). We can't really know for sure.

What we can say with reasonable certainty is that it probably didn't hurt. And it probably had some positive effect. It may have been the source of the turn-around, and maybe not for physical, combat reasons. It still seems a good act to me.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

To me it makes the kid more of a target firstly they share this traumatic event with the whole world then they tell everyone that he's now training martial arts. That could prompt other bullies to challenge him to see how good he is and just cause more trouble for him and he wouldn't be able to deal with it because as I've said one week of Jiu Jitsu is no where near enough to be able to apply it properly

I don't think there's nearly as much of this "challenge the martial artist" stuff as most of us (myself included) tend to think. Many kids knew I was a martial artist growing up. The bullying didn't become more or less frequent until I stood up to them. Some talk picked up, but nobody ever said to me, nor to anyone I know (and I taught a lot of kids during my student teaching years), "C'mon karaddy kid, show me what you got!"

As for publicizing the event, I'd hope they gauged that on his reaction to it. If he didn't much care, it probably wasn't a bad choice. It might have gotten him picked on a bit, but likely also bought him some "cool points" with some other folks. Kids are weird.

 

[jobo]

Actually, it's not equivalent. There's a concept called "distributed learning" - we learn more when the learning is distributed over time than when it is concentrated (assuming the same total learning time).

that might have some merit, if it was academic learning, but he was training to trip somebody over and strangle them, how long does that actually take?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

that might have some merit, if it was academic learning, but he was training to trip somebody over and strangle them, how long does that actually take?

The principle holds for physical learning, too.

 

[jobo]

The principle holds for physical learning, too.

well no it doesn't, motor pattern learning requires constant practise, one class a week for 20weeks, it much inferior to a block of 20 hours,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well no it doesn't, motor pattern learning requires constant practise, one class a week for 20weeks, it much inferior to a block of 20 hours,

You're talking about complex pattern learning, when you look at grappling. Distributed learning has a dramatic effect on any learning that has a cognitive component (which this does).

The physical learning would be improved by longer blocks. You are correct in that. But there's a diminishing return to that. 4 5-hour blocks has one advantage, while 10 2-hour blocks has a different one. The extremes (20 1-hour blocks separated by weeks, and 2 10-hour blocks separated by a night) are the least effective for opposite reasons - the one has poor motor pattern learning (too distributed) and the other offers poor cognitive learning (way beyond the effective learning duration, and not enough distribution).

 

[jobo]

You're talking about complex pattern learning, when you look at grappling. Distributed learning has a dramatic effect on any learning that has a cognitive component (which this does).

The physical learning would be improved by longer blocks. You are correct in that. But there's a diminishing return to that. 4 5-hour blocks has one advantage, while 10 2-hour blocks has a different one. The extremes (20 1-hour blocks separated by weeks, and 2 10-hour blocks separated by a night) are the least effective for opposite reasons - the one has poor motor pattern learning (too distributed) and the other offers poor cognitive learning (way beyond the effective learning duration, and not enough distribution).

what cognitive learning are you identifying? The point of developing motor patterns is you no longer need to think about what move and how to do it, you can play guitar when you no longer need to think how a c cord goes and then transition to a e with out conscious thought

 

[Gerry Seymour]

what cognitive learning are you identifying? The point of developing motor patterns is you no longer need to think about what move and how to do it, you can play guitar when you no longer need to think how a c cord goes and then transition to a e with out conscious thought

To develop skill at grappling, you have to also understand the principles of grappling. It's not like dribbling a soccer ball - it's more like playing soccer. Someone can be really good at the individual kick/dribble skills, but if they can't read an opposing team and put themselves in the right position, they won't be as good at the game. That goes for grappling (and striking), too. If all someone gets is a few motions they can repeat, they can only use them in the exact situation they learned them in (variations require more learning), and only if the situation happens on its own (since they haven't learned to create the openings).