styles/forms taught at xun hu shan wu xiao

[Offth3gr1d]

In my previous post (which can be found at http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42496)

there were several questions about what styles of tai ji, gong fu and sanda were taught, and by which teachers.

That thread has become a discussion about something else, so i have created a new thread for discussion and feedback about the particular things one can learn at the xun hu shan school.

Please understand that on our website, at www.chanwugongfu.net, there is a general overview of what is taught, however, in trying to be more specific, i have done my best to cross the language berrier and find out what particular styles, forms and traditions are taught here...

Bear in mind that i speak basic chinese, enough to get around in the towns and have basic conversation, and my master understands the same amount of english.

When i tried to sit him down and explain that "internet people" want to know what styles are taught here, he said "shaolin style". I told him that i already said that, and that they wanted to know names. His initial response was "Many name, many masters here know many different". I had a little trouble explaining the difference between a "style" and a "form". So... some of these may be styles and systems, and some may be specific forms from specific systems... it was the best i could do. As far as "old master" or master ren ri qing, he rattled off about a million things, and mater wang said "he long time study, maybe you stay here many year no understand he teach" (you get used to the yoda speak after about a week) So he asked master ren qi what he knew best and we narrowed it down to 5 or 6 things. I will say that master ren qi, master ren qiang (new sanda teacher, not on the website) and master ren he all come from the same (ren) family, a prominant family in shandong province renouned for their skill in the 2 sectioned staff. To watch them is AMAZING. They have their own liniage, but as fellow westerners, you know the story on that... it may or may not get passed on to us (and then perhaps not everything). It's traditional ren family shandong gong fu, i couldn't get a name from them.

So then, here is what i was able to find out.

Gong-fu

Master Ren-ri qing
Xiao hu che
xiao hu yan
yan zi diao shuei
san hu zhang
liu shi chuei?
tang lang pai (i think this is mantis... master wang said "he very old teach this, i try find you new mantis teacher" when ren-qi said this)
master wang described his styles as "chuan tong gong fu" or traditional old chinese gong fu

Master Wang
shao lin xi ying qi gong (hard qigong i think)
nan quan (traditional, not wushu)
hei hu quan
ba gua
shao lin dao
shao lin suen
shao lin jian
shao lin jian
shao lin qiang
shao lin ying quan
wu xing ba fa
Tai Tsu Chang quan
Lo Han quan
(master wang went on with some others, but i wasn't sure if they were forms or styles as he started doing forms while he was showing them. I basicly got out of him that if it is shaolin, he knows it. Bear in mind that he was a shaolin monk when there were still masters teaching from before the "corruption" and horrible times for shaolin.)

Master Ren He
(He only teaches students that have been here for a year or more)
This teacher wasn't here when i did my research. I have seen him in books on shaolin gong fu since i've been here (that master wang has in his room), gong fu magazines and more. From what i understand he is pretty big in CMA, though i have never heard of him. There is more info on the website.

Master Ren qiang
Sanda (san shou)
He has taught sanda for 21 years.
He also teaches the ren family style gong fu.

Tai ji
Master Wang, Master Ren He - taijiquan

Qi Gong
Master Wang, Master Ren He - shao lin xi ying qi gong


The way it went down was them saying the styles and writing the charicters in chinese, while a classroom teacher transcribed the pinyin. There may have been some mistakes or things lost in translation.

Hope this answers some questions, and raises some new ones.

Thanks!

-Rob

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks

Some translations, I am working on the rest but without the tone it is difficult, can you post the Chinese?

liu shi chuei? - 6 10 ?

chuan tong gong fu" or traditional old Chinese gong fu - could this be Changquan - Long fist

ba gua - Baguazhang - 8 trigrams palm

shao lin dao - Shaolin Broad sword

shao lin jian - Shaolin striaght sword

shao lin jian - Shaolin striaght sword

wu xing ba fa - 5 element 8 methods (?)

Tai Tsu Chang quan - This is confusing tsu is Wade giles not pinyin and are you sure its not Tzu (wade giles) which could be Ci or maybe even Zi depending on the tone. But if it is Tsu then the pinyin would be Zu

[Taijiman]

"Tai Tsu Chang Quan" would be emporer's longfist, and was created by Sung Tai Tzu, who loved the martial arts. There's a number of different versions (it's just over 1000 years old, so has been spread around quite abit). Shaolin is considered to have one of the older versions.

[Taijiman]

Master Ren-ri qing

Xiao hu che
xiao hu yan

Xiao Hu Yan is a mantis form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0NKHVvGUS0

yan zi diao shuei
san hu zhang
liu shi chuei?
tang lang pai (i think this is mantis... master wang said "he very old teach this, i try find you new mantis teacher" when ren-qi said this)
master wang described his styles as "chuan tong gong fu" or traditional old chinese gong fu

Not sure about the other names, but it sounds like he may be a mantis specialist and was naming his favorite routines Though I could be wrong... I don't know the names of many mantis forms other than a couple of the more famous ones

Master Wang
shao lin xi ying qi gong (hard qigong i think)
nan quan (traditional, not wushu)
hei hu quan
ba gua
shao lin dao
shao lin suen
shao lin jian
shao lin jian
shao lin qiang
shao lin ying quan
wu xing ba fa
Tai Tsu Chang quan
Lo Han quan
(master wang went on with some others, but i wasn't sure if they were forms or styles as he started doing forms while he was showing them. I basicly got out of him that if it is shaolin, he knows it. Bear in mind that he was a shaolin monk when there were still masters teaching from before the "corruption" and horrible times for shaolin.)

Hei Hu Quan would be Black Tiger.

Wu Xing Ba Fa is 5 elements, 6 harmonies

Ying Quan would be... Eagle boxing I think?

Lo Han is another old Shaolin style and also refers to qigong exercises in a number of different systems that trace their lineage to Shaolin in some way

Shaolin dao, jian and qiang would be sabre (or broadsword), sword, and spear respectively. Not sure what a "suen" is.

Xi Ying Qigong... Not sure what that is Maybe the "hard" Shaolin qigong (Iron body, iron palm, etc.). Just a guess...

[Offth3gr1d]

Originally Posted by Taijiman

Master Ren-ri qing

Xiao Hu Yan is a mantis form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0NKHVvGUS0


Not sure about the other names, but it sounds like he may be a mantis specialist and was naming his favorite routines Though I could be wrong... I don't know the names of many mantis forms other than a couple of the more famous ones



Hei Hu Quan would be Black Tiger.

Wu Xing Ba Fa is 5 elements, 6 harmonies

Ying Quan would be... Eagle boxing I think?

Lo Han is another old Shaolin style and also refers to qigong exercises in a number of different systems that trace their lineage to Shaolin in some way

Shaolin dao, jian and qiang would be sabre (or broadsword), sword, and spear respectively. Not sure what a "suen" is.

Xi Ying Qigong... Not sure what that is Maybe the "hard" Shaolin qigong (Iron body, iron palm, etc.). Just a guess...

thanks for the quick feedback... with everyone's interest, i have talked master wang into letting me use the school computer to help get this information on the net, so i can post a bit more!

I mentioned to master wang what you said about master ren ri being a mantis specialist. Master wang doesn't know the english word Mantis, so i made the famous mantis hand weapon, and his response was "no, he teach small different, i know this (and he made the hand weapon then said) he teach this (and did a different stance and started a form and said) tang lang pai... He went on to say that tang lang family was a very old family who was in this area, jimo, in the laoshan mountains. That vibes with what i found out when i googled tang lang pai, that it is from this area. So i think what is happening is master wang thinks his shaolin (maybe 7 star?) mantis is what we call "mantis", and what master ren ri teaches is something else.

China is very different, i don't know how to explain it lol.

Anyway, keep the questions rolling and i'll keep asking. One other thing i tried today was looking up styles and pointing and saying "you know this?" there were alot that he knew, but also alot he didn't know (alot of southern styles like hun gar, wing chun etc)... so it's probably easier at this point to ask if a style or form is taught here and i will find out. It will help if you know the proper pinyin spelling or even beter if you can provide the traditional chinese.

Thanks!

-Rob

[Taijiman]

I mentioned to master wang what you said about master ren ri being a mantis specialist. Master wang doesn't know the english word Mantis, so i made the famous mantis hand weapon, and his response was "no, he teach small different, i know this (and he made the hand weapon then said) he teach this (and did a different stance and started a form and said) tang lang pai... He went on to say that tang lang family was a very old family who was in this area, jimo, in the laoshan mountains. That vibes with what i found out when i googled tang lang pai, that it is from this area. So i think what is happening is master wang thinks his shaolin (maybe 7 star?) mantis is what we call "mantis", and what master ren ri teaches is something else.

Well, tang lang pai is a Chinese name for what we call the praying mantis style which originated in Shandong province. There's at least a dozen or more substyles though, so you might be right

As far as southern styles go, here's what I know of... or at least know how to spell, lol:
Hong Jia Quan (Hung Gar... the style of the famous Huang Fei Hung)
Fo Jia Quan? (Fut Gar)
Cai Li Fo Quan (Choy Lay Fut)
Cai Jia Quan (Choy Gar)
Li Jia Quan
Yong Chun Quan? (Wing Chun)
Nan Shaolin Quan (also Zi, Fa, Ying, and Luohan branches... saw some vcds of these available)
Nan Tang Lang Quan (Southern mantis)
Long Quan (dragon)
Tian Gang Quan
Lama Pai
Hong Fo Quan? (Hung Fut)
Bai Mai Quan (White Eyebrow)
Nan Tai Zu Quan (Southern emporers boxing... southern branch of emporers longfist)
Bai He Quan or He Quan (white crane/crane boxing)
Mo Jia Quan (Mok Gar)
Wu Zu Quan (Five Ancestors)
Hei Hu Quan (Black Tiger... not related to the Shaolin black tiger that's found in some northern shaolin systems)
Nan Ying Jow Quan (southern eagle claw)

Or his nan quan could be some smaller familly or villiage style, an otherwise un-named branch of a Southern Shaolin kungfu style, a hybrid of something, something imported into the newly rebuilt southern "Shaolin" temple... There's all kinds of little known styles that got "left behind" in the mainland during the communist and cultural revolutions. Many of the bigger name Southern styles ended up in Hong Kong and Taiwan, but others were nearly wiped out, or went underground and are just now resurfacing.

[Rook]

Very busy so this will be quick.

Yong Chun Quan = Wing Chun

Wu Xing Ba Fa = Five Elements Six Harmonies - I have heard of a popular qigong set on the internet by this name, don't know its validity, never heard of it as a fighting style

If Tai Tsu Chang quan = Tai Tzu Chang Quan then = Emperor's Longfist, a fairly well know if not popularly practiced style.

Long Quan = a generic term for all dragon styles - you should get more information about which one. THere are lots of fake dragon stylists out there now and the name "Long Quan" with no specification is not promising.

There are several black tiger systems, although only a few are apparently historically legit. You may wish to check into which one they claim to teach and the lineage - some problems with fake instructors of it on kung fu forums in the past.

Best of luck.

[oxy]

Wu Xing Ba Fa = Five Elements Six Harmonies

Something is wrong here.

None of "wu" "xing" "ba" or "fa" means "six". "ba" is "eight". "fa", at least none that I know of, cannot mean "harmony".

Something is wrong here. It could be me.

[Xue Sheng]

Originally Posted by oxy

Something is wrong here.

None of "wu" "xing" "ba" or "fa" means "six". "ba" is "eight". "fa", at least none that I know of, cannot mean "harmony".

Something is wrong here. It could be me.

Could it be

wu xing ba fa - 5 element 8 methods

[Taijiman]

Very busy so this will be quick.

Yong Chun Quan = Wing Chun

Wu Xing Ba Fa = Five Elements Six Harmonies - I have heard of a popular qigong set on the internet by this name, don't know its validity, never heard of it as a fighting style

If Tai Tsu Chang quan = Tai Tzu Chang Quan then = Emperor's Longfist, a fairly well know if not popularly practiced style.

Long Quan = a generic term for all dragon styles - you should get more information about which one. THere are lots of fake dragon stylists out there now and the name "Long Quan" with no specification is not promising.

There are several black tiger systems, although only a few are apparently historically legit. You may wish to check into which one they claim to teach and the lineage - some problems with fake instructors of it on kung fu forums in the past.

Best of luck.

It's also a fairly common name of a form in some northern systems, completely unrelated to the southern tiger systems. Anyway, I think you're mixing up some of his post and some of mine. I wasn't naming the forms his teacher teaches, just giving some names of various southern styles in Chinese to help out Offth3gr1d.

Something is wrong here.

None of "wu" "xing" "ba" or "fa" means "six". "ba" is "eight". "fa", at least none that I know of, cannot mean "harmony".

Something is wrong here. It could be me.

Yeah, I just screwed up my translation, lol. I read it as 5 elements, 8 methods... but the name reminded me of the style "liu he ba fa" (6 harmonies, 8 methods) and I got my signals crossed

[Rook]

[quote=Taijiman;682525]It's also a fairly common name of a form in some northern systems, completely unrelated to the southern tiger systems. Anyway, I think you're mixing up some of his post and some of mine. I wasn't naming the forms his teacher teaches, just giving some names of various southern styles in Chinese to help out Offth3gr1d.

Yeah, I just screwed up my translation, lol. I read it as 5 elements, 8 methods... but the name reminded me of the style "liu he ba fa" (6 harmonies, 8 methods) and I got my signals crossed

Just ran a net search. I find "wu xing ba fa" translated as 5 elements 8 methods and as 5 animals 8 methods (don't know what that is about). Apparently unrelated to the qigong set I was thinking of. Strike that from the list - I can't help here.

[Rook]

From
http://waterspirit6x8.tripod.com/id24.html

not quite halfway down the page.

King Chao is also credited with developing Tai Tzu Chang Chuan .'The original style was a 32 move Long Fist form, but eventually grew to have as many as 100. Tai Tzu Chang Chuan is also said to be one of the early influences on the Chen style of Taji Quan, and an influence on Northern Mantis and Ngo Cho Keun as well. It is a powerful style with flowing movements, it's popularty rivales that of the Shaolin in the Ming dynasty and was standard military training during that time. As a student of Chen Po, Emperor Chao also created an internal version of the system based on Chen Po's teachings. During the Southern Sung dynasty, his descendants created another exercise with the same name, shorter and with more upper body emphasis than the original. As they are complementary, both are taught side by side today.'

A little bit of info on the Tai Tzu Chang Chuan system from a pretty reliable source. Khan Foxx is well respected as a historian so far as I know.