Women in Systema

[Roland]

I have not seen or heard of too many myself.
I have even overheard others say that there are very few that come out or continue to train it.

Any reason why?
How about the exceptions. Who are they and why do they stick it out?
Are the methods different for training women, or with women?
If so, why? And what are the differences?

Just some thoughts.

Vlad's school has 2 women I know of who train there regularily and a few more who travel once in a bit to be there.

I think that the ratio of men to women in any art is low.

Which is crappy because I dig hot babes throwing punches.


Call me and we'll talk about this re: the free for all fighting Vlad sometimes has at the school at the end of class.

It's not appropriate for this forum.

[Jackal]

I’ve found that it’s actually easier to train women (than men) in Systema because they’re more comfortable with the concept of non-resistance. There is less ego involved and with that comes less tension. Men usually have to be broken first before they can start learning. Women are also typically more aware of their bodies and are more willing to let themselves go to increase their sensitivity.

Why there are so few involved? Psychological conditioning for the most part. Many don’t think they could take being beaten with a stick as well as a man could. They rarely give themselves a chance to surprise themselves.

[Roland]

...women would actually enjoy training in Systema and enjoy all the benefits of it too. I would think it would be easy to introduce the training methods to women and give them the chance to try it for themsleves.
So, where are they?
What is really holding them back from training?
Pychological conditioning? mmmmmmmm, maybe, but I see a lot of women train at other schools, maybe not as many as the men, but there are still a lot out there.
Heck, some schools have an equal, or even more ratio of women.

The few women I have seen who were introduced to Systema loved it, but these were at seminars and there is not really the capacity for steady training there.

I feel like we are missing something here.

As you know Roland, I have participated in a systema seminar with Martin Wheeler. I thought it very kewl, and enjoyed it emencely, and if there was a local instructor I would seriously consider doing some cross training in systema.

The only thing that makes me hesitate is the practise of beating on each other so that you work "past the pain" or however it's put.

Gou and Jay have both explained the purpose behind it and it all sounds very logical. But when I saw an example of it at the seminar when Mr. Wheeler said. "Who wants me to hit them" and all the guys stuck there hands up and did like Horseshack. "Ooh Ooh Me Me" and stood there, one after the other, while Mr. Wheeler beat on them, and I'm not talking love taps either. Just seemed like a lot of testosterone hooey to me.

I didn't see any girl volunteer. I tend to believe that girls are to smart to stand there and let someone beat on them. That's why we are in Martial arts to DEFEND ourselves. I have no problem taking a hit while training or sparring, but I guess you could say that practise intimidates the heck outta me.

But then again that's just my opinion.

Dot

[Jay Bell]

Gou and Jay have both explained the purpose behind it and it all sounds very logical. But when I saw an example of it at the seminar when Mr. Wheeler said. "Who wants me to hit them" and all the guys stuck there hands up and did like Horseshack. "Ooh Ooh Me Me" and stood there, one after the other, while Mr. Wheeler beat on them, and I'm not talking love taps either. Just seemed like a lot of testosterone hooey to me.

haha..understandable. When you watch it, it *does* seem like a bunch of dudes getting together and seeing how tough they are. It's honestly completely opposite. It's a confidence building tool. The interesting thing about Systema, is all b.s. stays at the door. You can believe your own hype or the hype that the world sets for you, but in the training, the true you comes out.

Behind the curtain of what we allow the world to see of ourselves, many of us need that boost. When you are taken to your limit...and you continue to press forward, something inside of you changes. The fact that you have reached your limit, believe it or not, allows the ego to settle...and more times then not, dissipate. The fact that you continue to move on, get up and go again builds confidence. It's the idea that even though I've reached my point...the path doesn't just come to a dead end in the road.

If you think watching that is bad...you should hear the stories of Mikhail doing the same thing

[Roland]

There have been several ladies who did that part at some of the mini-seminars that Martin has done while up here at various times.
Two where at the camp also, and like myself were trying to give others a chance to feel, and believe.
I am not sure about all the anyone else has told you, but it sounds incomplete. It is way more than what you think it is. Really should not be that much pain.
On a side note...
l also find that 80% who come into the school to watch a class never join, but 80% who participate, always do. I think you are kind of going through the same thing here.

Besides, it is optional, you do not have to do it, unless you are ready for it, I have seen Vlad turn people down and encourage others depending on where he thought they were. Mentally & Emotionaly.

I do not know that much about Systema to give a totaly honest opinion. My only experience is from that one seminar and from what Gou has been telling me. You did a very good job of explaining further Roland, thank you.

Gou is very excited about Systema, when he talks about it you can see it. He talks about what Vlad has taught him, how it can be used with any martial art to improve your skills. The exercises and workouts. LOL and how Vlad beat him up that last time they trained. Sytema sounds like a really great martial art, though very unique in its forms of training. It may be something I will explore more in the future.

[Roland]

Everyone gets out of Systema what they want.
Or, maybe, even, what they need.

If you were to spend some time with one individual, you would get the proballly get the feelings that they are experiencing, if you were then to spend an equal amount of time with another, thoses feeling would be completlety different.

Even seeing it is not the same as anything else. I, and several of my friends, laughed the first time I watched Vlads first three tapes. Now, I wish i understood them better.
It must be felt. Some arts can be watched, others talked about, but Systema must be experienced, on a physical, mental & emotional level.

Ofcourse these too, are just my personal experiences.

I like it.

In Russia, there are quite a few women learning ROSS; like any martial art (except possibly Tae Bo), markedly fewer than men, but cultural conditioning doesn't really promote physicality for women such as is found in what to most people is seen as fighting. On the other hand, Russian culture (largely due to the Soviet background) has a more equal basis than most Western society.

In the UK there are no senior-level Ross practicioners. It's still a young art here, though, and a lot of women have come to classes for basic self-defence skills (at least one of whom had to - successfully - defend herself within 24 hours of her last class!), and a few more experienced martial artists who've used the Russian training approach to improve their base skills.

We only have one female training regulalry in the enitre group - and she is aged 14. Her movment skills are now very good and what she lacks in power she can usually compensate for in evasion and sensitivity. She'd certainly stand up well against someone in her own age group.
We've had other women come along, but none for more than a few classes. I think some women find it difficult when you start doing ground fighting, for example, or the fact that everything is full contact.
Mind you I think that is a general thing for both men and women - a lot of people seem to prefer standing in line throwing punches into thin air ;-)

[Roland]

...why not let them only get to that part when they feel ready for it? In fact, is that not what an instructor is supposed to do. Help build the confidence of the student until they feel they are ready to move on, learn something new?
Any idiot can get on the ground and roll around, or even just beat others up, or even let themselves be beaten. But what about the average person, who needs a progressive learning enviroment, one where they are made to feel comfortable and move along with the help of their instructor?

Originally posted by Roland
Any idiot can get on the ground and roll around

I'll say...

Originally posted by Roland

...why not let them only get to that part when they feel ready for it? In fact, is that not what an instructor is supposed to do. Help build the confidence of the student until they feel they are ready to move on, learn something new?
Any idiot can get on the ground and roll around, or even just beat others up, or even let themselves be beaten.

Well thanks.

We don't throw people in at the deep end, we do introduce a lot of things gradually, but the fact remains that even seeing other students doing that sort of work can put people off.

OTOH an instructor is also supposed to help a person ovecome their fears, particularly in Systema, which does sometimes mean being "cruel to be kind". Fair enough, it's not for everyone, but you can't make an omellette etc etc