Kuji-Kiri

Recently ive become interested in Kuji-Kiri or Kuji-no-in. Alot of people believe this to be simply "finger twisties" and an unnecessary traditionalistic thing to teach modern martial arts students.

I personally dont believe this to give any sort of mystical powers but I am interested in the philisopical concept. Kuji-Kiri in its nature is also a way to focus the mind.

I would like to know what others think of this and their own opinions or experiences.

[lulflo]

My understanding of Kuji-Kiri is that it is a form of meditation that unlocks the nine psychic meridians. The meditation includes mantra, moodra and mandala. Each position of the fingers holds specific attributes; grounding, rooting, centering/stability...adjust, adapt, unite and blend...assertiveness, fighting for what you believe in...love, emotion, compassion and healing...premonition of danger/intent, communication through vibration...knowing the thoughts of others, communication with like-minded individuals, tuning into the inner voice, mastery of time/space...insight, intuition, knowing, dreaming...oneness with the universe/nature/the five elements...opening of all the chakras, visiting the higher dimensions, invisibility. Each one of these separated by ... are the 9 different meditations with each finger position. Meditating with the finger position by itself is good, with the vocalization and the finger position is better - two fold if you will, and with the visualization, vocalization and the finger position of course would be the the best.

I have been working with this for about three years now and have found that with Reiki (energy healing) and meditation with the kuji-kiri, I have been able to help people feel better than before I knew either one. I am not one who believes much in coincidence so I would give value to both practices.

I am interested to find out if you have much of the same information/attributes with what you are learning and any information that you are willing to share about Kuji-Kiri as well.

Farang - Larry

I have only recently begun learning this stuff but this is what I have been able to gather from it so far.
Rin - Strength of mind and body.
Kyo - Direction of energy.
Toh - Harmony with the universe.
Sha - Healing of self and others around you.
Kai - Premonition of danger.
Jin - Knowing the thoughts and feelings of others.
Retsu - Mastery of space and time.
Zai - Control over elements of nature.
Zen - Enlightenment

Considering I have only begun studying this, I cant tell how valid those are but since thats all ive been able to find, its all I have to learn from.

Those 9 words could possibly mean different things to different people.

For instance "Control over elements" of nature could be the ability to understand and adapt to nature, and then being able to work off of what you know and adapt that to achieve your goal.

"Strength of mind and body" might be physical strength and mental intellect to some, while for others it means being physically well and having a good outlook strong outlook on life and everything around you.

Do you possibly know of anything that would help get more in depth with this stuff? Perhaps books or websites that would guide me through the learning process of this.

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Originally Posted by ShadowKnight

I have only recently begun learning this stuff but this is what I have been able to gather from it so far.
Rin - Strength of mind and body.
Kyo - Direction of energy.
Toh - Harmony with the universe.
Sha - Healing of self and others around you.
Kai - Premonition of danger.
Jin - Knowing the thoughts and feelings of others.
Retsu - Mastery of space and time.
Zai - Control over elements of nature.
Zen - Enlightenment

There are hundreds of kuji signs, and those there sound like they are related to Bujinkan. You won't be able to grasp the significance, usefulness and/or meaning of them without decades of training behind you.

I know that I would probably never fully understand but im still interested in learning as much as I can.

[Kizaru]

Originally Posted by ShadowKnight

Rin - Kyo - Toh - Sha - Kai - Jin - Retsu - Zai - Zen

....are but since thats all ive been able to find, its all I have to learn from.

Those 9 words could possibly mean different things to different people.

Do you possibly know of anything that would help get more in depth with this stuff? Perhaps books or websites that would guide me through the learning process of this.

"Kuji KIRI" are the slashes in the air with the fingers; "Kuji IN" are the hand positions with the fingers woven togther.

The practice originated in Buddhism, but in Japan, "Ninpo Kuji" and "Budo Kuji" were also developed. They're not the same as Japanese Buddhist Kuji, but similar. Other martial arts ryu besides Togakure ryu have Kuji, for example, the Takenouchi ryu and the Tenshin Katori Shinto ryu are said to use kuji. But it would be useless for someone who hasn't trained in those systems to learn them as they have deep ties to the systems themselves.

If you're interested in learning more about kuji, I would suggest you stop looking on the internet. The practice is passed on from teacher to student, and typically, a good teacher doesn't pass this stuff onto a student who'll spread it to the four winds. Your best bet would be to do some research into Shugendo and/or Japanese Buddhism, particularly the Tendai and the Shingon sects, this is what the "martial arts kuji" grew out of in Japan. If one of those seems interesting to you, follow up on it. Find a legitimate teacher and go to them. If there's no one legitimate within commuting distance to you, and it doesn't feel right for you to move someplace where they would be, maybe you don't need to learn it right now. In the old days, people would move to a temple or "coincidentaly" bump into a wandering monk and learn these kinds of things.

If the timing for you doesn't seem right at the moment, don't worry about it. If Summer suddenly came about in the middle of Winter or a 70 year old man suddenly hit puberty, there'd be problems, right?

Finally, I can't stress enough finding someone legitimate to learn from. These are methods of training the heart and mind. I think everyone would agree that if one were to go to an unlicensed and/or poorly trained psychologist, or try to treat oneself through books and the internet, there would be problems.

All the best.

Thanks for that info. I will make attempts to find someone who can teach this to me.

I live in the Chicagoland area of Illinois, there is a Japanese Culture Center where they teach a number of things near by but thats as far as my knowledge goes.

If there is anyone who knows someplace in the area, I would greatful.

[Kizaru]

Originally Posted by ShadowKnight

I live in the Chicagoland area of Illinois, there is a Japanese Culture Center where they teach a number of things near by but thats as far as my knowledge goes.

That would be a good direction to move in. As you meet more people personally, you're bound to meet someone who knows something you'd be interested in learning.

On another note, I've heard there's a guy teaching Takagi ryu or Hontai Yoshin ryu jujutsu at the Illinois Japanese Cultural Center who's supposed to be pretty good.

[Tgace]

From the "non mystical" side of the house, I would compare them to mnemonic devices.

[Shizen Shigoku]

TgaceFrom the "non mystical" side of the house, I would compare them to mnemonic devices.

Or even a form of NLP, . . .

The last place I heard:

"Rin - Strength of mind and body.
Kyo - Direction of energy.
Toh - Harmony with the universe.
Sha - Healing of self and others around you.
Kai - Premonition of danger.
Jin - Knowing the thoughts and feelings of others.
Retsu - Mastery of space and time.
Zai - Control over elements of nature.
Zen - Enlightenment"

was the movie Enter the Ninja - starring our beloved Sho Kosugi.

I vaguely remember a rumour that Stephen Hayes was a consultant of sorts for that movie. [more investigation needed to verify]

Otherwise the last mention of kuji I remember seeing here on Martial Talk was during this discussion.

Do a search with keyword "kuji," and see what else pops up.

For other discussions on the subject:

kuji
kuji?
kuji??


p.s.

shi-kin-ha-ra-mi-tsu-dai-ko-myo
is also kuji (nine syllables).


p.p.s.

When studying matters ninpo-related, be careful not to use too much kyojitsutenkan on yourselves.


Anyhoo, kuji is fun, enjoy yourselves . . .

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

The last time I heard of the kuji was in the movie "Owl's Castle" from 1999. I still say it's the best ninja movie ever made. Fairly realistic too, only that scene on Hideyoshi's roof had me waiting for someone to stick his head out of the window and shout "shut up you two ninja walking around, we're trying to catch some sleep here!!!"

[Cryozombie]

Originally Posted by ShadowKnight

Thanks for that info. I will make attempts to find someone who can teach this to me.

I live in the Chicagoland area of Illinois, there is a Japanese Culture Center where they teach a number of things near by but thats as far as my knowledge goes.

If there is anyone who knows someplace in the area, I would greatful.

I dont know that the cultural center teaches Kuji, but if you wanna learn the Tea ceremony...

What area are you in man?

[Kizaru]

Originally Posted by Technopunk

I dont know that the cultural center teaches Kuji, but if you wanna learn the Tea ceremony...

But someone in the tea ceremony group (or some other group) might know someone who knows someone who can introduce you to what you're looking for. The person who started this thread is looking for something practiced in Japan, if you can't go to Japan, the best place to start looking for connections might be a Japanese Cultural Center in your community. That's what I intended to communicate; I apologize if I was unclear.

[Cryozombie]

Originally Posted by Kizaru

But someone in the tea ceremony group (or some other group) might know someone who knows someone who can introduce you to what you're looking for. The person who started this thread is looking for something practiced in Japan, if you can't go to Japan, the best place to start looking for connections might be a Japanese Cultural Center in your community. That's what I intended to communicate; I apologize if I was unclear.

Yeah, I missed your response actually, I was just commenting in general.

Heres some interesting info:

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/mudra-japan.shtml

[stephen]

Originally Posted by Technopunk

I dont know that the cultural center teaches Kuji, but if you wanna learn the Tea ceremony...

What area are you in man?

There is a group in the center that teaches Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu.....