Redonda X - AKA Heaven six in other systems

[Rich Parsons]

Please see this thread for striking


Redonda X for the X motion of 45 degree strikes.

Begin Right over Left. (* Left hand tucked under the Right Arm Pit. Right Hand back and up *)

1) Strike a number 1 with your Right Hand

2) Chamber the Right hand to the Left shoulder
Strike a number 2 with the Left Hand

3) Strike a numebr 2 with the Right Hand
Chamber the Left Hand to the Left shoulder

4) Chamber the Right Hand to the Left Arm Pit
Strike a number 1 with the Left Hand

5) Chamber the Left Hand to the Right Shoulder
strike a number 2 with the Rigth Hand

6) Strike a number 2 with the Left Hand
Chamber the Right Hand to the Right shoulder

[The Boar Man]

Rich

I was taught that Heaven Six Sinawali was slightly different than Rendonda Six. Heaven Six (as I was taught) had the 3rd and 6th strikes as a hit and then retracting the stick (reversing direction) and chambering it under the arm.

As I was taught Redonda six count you followed through with the strike and brought it back under your arm. When GM Remy had us practice the Redonda with a partner holding his two sticks out to the sides it was different then the Heaven Six count of Double Stick Sinawali

Mark

[pesilat]

Originally Posted by The Boar Man

Rich

I was taught that Heaven Six Sinawali was slightly different than Rendonda Six. Heaven Six (as I was taught) had the 3rd and 6th strikes as a hit and then retracting the stick (reversing direction) and chambering it under the arm.

As I was taught Redonda six count you followed through with the strike and brought it back under your arm. When GM Remy had us practice the Redonda with a partner holding his two sticks out to the sides it was different then the Heaven Six count of Double Stick Sinawali

Mark

Yup. That's how I learned them, too - though my instructor uses the term "redondo" instead of "redonda."

Mike

[arnisador]

Yes, the way I learned redonda, I wouldn't describe the third strike as a #2. But, I was thinking about redonda just yesterday. It was cool and a great way to demonstrate speed, but I what I really liked about it was that I felt it helped me learn to get my hip into the strike, not just the arm.

Nowadays, though, I rarely do it anymore. How many people find it important in their training? How many think of it as a sequence they'd use in sparring as opposed to "just" a drill?

[Rich Parsons]

Originally Posted by The Boar Man

Rich

I was taught that Heaven Six Sinawali was slightly different than Rendonda Six. Heaven Six (as I was taught) had the 3rd and 6th strikes as a hit and then retracting the stick (reversing direction) and chambering it under the arm.

As I was taught Redonda six count you followed through with the strike and brought it back under your arm. When GM Remy had us practice the Redonda with a partner holding his two sticks out to the sides it was different then the Heaven Six count of Double Stick Sinawali

Mark

Mark,

I was taught that Redonda was the following:

Right Hand Number 3
Left Hand Number 4
Right Hand Number 12 that does follow through.

Left Hand Number 3
Right Hand Number 4
Left Hand NUmber 12 that follows through.

So, the Redonda X is all crossing and striking with retraction, where Redonda is cutting or slicing motions that swing through.

Like I said before I do not think I have the only way. Hence the series of topics to discuss so everyone can present their own thoughts and points and history.

[Rich Parsons]

Originally Posted by arnisador

Yes, the way I learned redonda, I wouldn't describe the third strike as a #2. But, I was thinking about redonda just yesterday. It was cool and a great way to demonstrate speed, but I what I really liked about it was that I felt it helped me learn to get my hip into the strike, not just the arm.

Nowadays, though, I rarely do it anymore. How many people find it important in their training? How many think of it as a sequence they'd use in sparring as opposed to "just" a drill?

Jeff,

I find that when I do double stick sparring, I will occasionally use the Redonda or Redonda X (* Depending upon the angle I am trying to cut *) for a two or three beat and then move on.

Also, in redonda X, moves 5 and 6 are real close to "seblig" = To cast away, from Balintawak.

[The Boar Man]

Originally Posted by pesilat

Yup. That's how I learned them, too - though my instructor uses the term "redondo" instead of "redonda."

Mike

I thought too it was Redondo but when in Rome.

Mark

[The Boar Man]

Originally Posted by Rich Parsons

Mark,

I was taught that Redonda was the following:

Right Hand Number 3
Left Hand Number 4
Right Hand Number 12 that does follow through.

Left Hand Number 3
Right Hand Number 4
Left Hand NUmber 12 that follows through.

So, the Redonda X is all crossing and striking with retraction, where Redonda is cutting or slicing motions that swing through.

Like I said before I do not think I have the only way. Hence the series of topics to discuss so everyone can present their own thoughts and points and history.

Rich

Is the drill you just described here Redonda X? Cause I'm confused here. I always looked at Redonda as meaning a large circular motion, and the way I was taught Redonda the strikes all crossed and formed a X so I thought it was the same.

However in this drill you describe here the angles 3 and 4 would be more horizontal wouldn't they with the 12 being vertical forming a plus sign more or less. And what strikes are retracted and what strikes follow through?

No disrespect here implied nor intended, I'd like to add a different double stick to my collection (so to speak) and try out some new skills so I thought I'd ask for some clarification.

Mark

[Rich Parsons]

Originally Posted by The Boar Man

Rich

Is the drill you just described here Redonda X? Cause I'm confused here. I always looked at Redonda as meaning a large circular motion, and the way I was taught Redonda the strikes all crossed and formed a X so I thought it was the same.

However in this drill you describe here the angles 3 and 4 would be more horizontal wouldn't they with the 12 being vertical forming a plus sign more or less. And what strikes are retracted and what strikes follow through?

No disrespect here implied nor intended, I'd like to add a different double stick to my collection (so to speak) and try out some new skills so I thought I'd ask for some clarification.

Mark

Mark,

I am sorry for the confusion.

The 3,4,12 was taught to me as Redonda. These strikes are cutting strikes and follow through.

1,2,2 pattern was taught to me as Redonda X and this was originally taught as cutting motion or follow through as well. To make it work with some partners it can also be done with strike and retract, which makes it look much more like a Sinawali. (* Yes, I know Sinawaili's can be performd in a cutting or follow through fashion . *) The reason with the strike and retract is to give the beginners more control of their stick and less broken fingers by accident versus on purpose .

As to the circle in the 3,4,12 pattern it is off to your sides as your swing the stick around for the next strike. Still redonda.

As to 1,2,2 the circle is mostly infront of the practitioner and much easier to be seen by the observer and the practitioner.

I hope this helps

[arnisandyz]

We follow a different pattern, but we also call it redonda 6. (For reference I will call all strikes to the opponents left collar bone/temple a 1 and all strikes to the opponents right collar bone/temple a 2). Start of closed position on the right side, right hand chambered over left. strike a 1 with the right, a 1 with the left, and 1 with the right again - right hand then chambers under left armpit as left hits a 2, right 2, then left 2. The "redonda" comes from the circular return path of the first and third hit.

We call the pattern Mr Parsons described as Heaven 6 (as he mentioned in the title).

Arnisador, I find it very useful to do ALL of the double stick drills! The idea being that you are not just memorizing a pattern or combination to use in fighting, but learning how to begin, change, transition motion. Ideally, when you have 2 sticks in your hand and you use it for fighting, you will have no idea what your going to do, but by doing ALL the siniwalis your body is conditioned to different movements depending on the situation.

Thanks

Andy

[arnisandyz]

I would like to add also that i like to start patterns at different places. i know for explanation purposes, we are saying start with right hand over left, on the right side, etc, etc...but you should be able to get into your siniwalis from anywhere and change them to different ones from anywhere. Something that helps is playing with the rythmn. Most people do a 123-456 until they smooth it out to 123456 to where its seamless. After that i like to break it down again to stress the different starting/stopping points like 12-34-56 or 12-3456 or 1-23-456 you could make up alot of your own rythmn/timing combinations, but try it, you might like it!

Thanks

Andy