You opinion/experience with weight training and MA training

[Brother John]

Originally Posted by Gufbal1982

Fast twitch muscles. They are also known as type 2 muscle fibers. Each person is predisposed genetically to either type 1 or type 2. Those with a greater percentage of Type II muscle fibers would be more likely to excel at anaerobic events such as a 200 meter dash, or weight lifting. People with high overall musculation and balanced muscle type percentage engage in sports such as rugby or boxing, and often engage on other sports just to increase performance.

If your muscles are too big then your muscle fibers cannot get the length needed in order to induce the fast twitch muscles correctly. This is my theory though, so please bare that in mind.

I honestly don't want to seem rude sir, but your theory on physiology is way off.
Humans all have the same number of type I and type II muscle fibres. There are some variables in mitochondria volume or ATP recovery rate, and this may have SOME bearing on wether a persons muscles will have a tendency toward high endurance or high strength. But I have the same number of Type I and Type II at 34 years of age and 225Lbs as my 6 year old daughter does at 46Lbs and my 75 year old father at 165Lbs.

Muscle size has NOTHING to do with muscle activation or recruitment. Nil.
The OLD superstition about being "Muscle-Bound" is Pure myth. If a person uses a FULL range of motion throughout their weight training processes and pays even minimal attention to a few stretching exercises on even a minimal basis, flexibility is Not an issue. NOW: If you are talking about Steroid abusers who's muscles are Gorged with blood...yes, their own muscles can get in the way of fluid motion. But they'd first have to make themselves Freaks....(and a great many of them, sadly, DO exactly that). But this MUST NOT be confused with someone following a genuine weight training regimen.

Heavy lifting puts a muscle under greater load and causes a muscle to hypertrophy..(GROW)..and they thereby become stronger and BETTER able to recruit their muscle spindles, which will eventually mature to the point that their energy reserves will replenish at a greater rate.

Endurance lifting, moderate weight for Higher reps/sets....will affect the muscles energy reserve replenishment MORE, and hypertrophy Less...

It's as simple as that.


Your Brother
John

[Brother John]

In case it's not clear:
Muscles are composed of aprox. 1/3rd Type I
and 2/3rds Type II (Fast Twitch) muscle fibers...

everyone.


Your Brother
John

[MeatWad2]

Dude, my physiology book says the same thing as Gufbal's post about humans being predisposed to genetically having a little more type 1 or type 2 muscle fibers. are you a doctor by any chance?

[MeatWad2]

Originally Posted by Brother John

I honestly don't want to seem rude sir, but your theory on physiology is way off.
Humans all have the same number of type I and type II muscle fibres. There are some variables in mitochondria volume or ATP recovery rate, and this may have SOME bearing on wether a persons muscles will have a tendency toward high endurance or high strength. But I have the same number of Type I and Type II at 34 years of age and 225Lbs as my 6 year old daughter does at 46Lbs and my 75 year old father at 165Lbs.

Muscle size has NOTHING to do with muscle activation or recruitment. Nil.
The OLD superstition about being "Muscle-Bound" is Pure myth. If a person uses a FULL range of motion throughout their weight training processes and pays even minimal attention to a few stretching exercises on even a minimal basis, flexibility is Not an issue. NOW: If you are talking about Steroid abusers who's muscles are Gorged with blood...yes, their own muscles can get in the way of fluid motion. But they'd first have to make themselves Freaks....(and a great many of them, sadly, DO exactly that). But this MUST NOT be confused with someone following a genuine weight training regimen.

Heavy lifting puts a muscle under greater load and causes a muscle to hypertrophy..(GROW)..and they thereby become stronger and BETTER able to recruit their muscle spindles, which will eventually mature to the point that their energy reserves will replenish at a greater rate.

Endurance lifting, moderate weight for Higher reps/sets....will affect the muscles energy reserve replenishment MORE, and hypertrophy Less...

It's as simple as that.


Your Brother
John

Ever seen a body builder try to walk or punch? It's slow and funny...

[MeatWad2]

Originally Posted by Brother John

In case it's not clear:
Muscles are composed of aprox. 1/3rd Type I
and 2/3rds Type II (Fast Twitch) muscle fibers...

everyone.


Your Brother
John

Here's what my physiology book says about Type 1 and Type 2 muscle fibers:

"Type I
Type I muscle fibers (slow-oxidative fibers) use primarily cellular respiration and, as a result, have relatively high endurance. To support their high-oxidative metabolism, these muscle fibers typically have lots of mitochondria and myoglobin, and thus appear red or what is typically termed "dark" meat in poultry. Type I muscle fibers are typically found in muscles of animals that require endurance, such as chicken leg muscles or the wing muscles of migrating birds (e.g. geese).

Type II
Type II muscle fibers use primarily anaerobic metabolism and have relatively low endurance. These muscle fibers are typically used during tasks requiring short bursts of strength, such as sprints or weightlifting. Type II muscle fibers cannot sustain contractions for significant lengths of time, and are typically found in the white meat (e.g., the breast) of chicken. There are two sub-classes of type II muscle fibers, type IIa (Fast-Oxidative) and IIb (Fast-Glycolytic). The Type IIa fast-oxidative fibers actually also appear red, due to their high content of myoglobin and mitochondria. Type IIb (Fast-Glycolytic) tire the fastest, and are the prevalent type in sedentary individuals. These fibers appear white histologically, due to their low oxidative demand, manifested by the lack of myoglobulin and mitochondria (relative to the Type I and Type IIa fibers). Some research suggests that these subtypes can switch with training to some degree. The biochemical difference between the three types of muscle fibers is their myosin heavy chains.

These types of muscles are in the categories of skeletal muscle"

While Gufbal's theory may be off a tad, he/she isn't too far off because most people will go overboard and if i read correctly, that's what he/she was saying.

[KempoGuy06]

Brother John thanks for the insight. That actually helped a lot. On a side note you know anything about joint(tendon/ligament) rehabilitation? (you can PM me)

Ok I dont not agree with theses theorys about not having to much muscle because it will affect the speed of your punches. Im 6'4" and 260lbs and i pack a pretty fast punch. Im at the gym 5 times a week and have gained some size and strength all the while my strikes are faster and more powerful. Plus this genetically predisposed crap is garbage. You have the will power and mind to become what you want. If you live by theories that everyone is predisposed to something than it will only limit you ability to become what you want. Sorry to get philisophical on you.

B

[Brother John]

Originally Posted by MeatWad2

Here's what my physiology book says about Type 1 and Type 2 muscle fibers:

"Type I
Type I muscle fibers (slow-oxidative fibers) use primarily cellular respiration and, as a result, have relatively high endurance. To support their high-oxidative metabolism, these muscle fibers typically have lots of mitochondria and myoglobin, and thus appear red or what is typically termed "dark" meat in poultry. Type I muscle fibers are typically found in muscles of animals that require endurance, such as chicken leg muscles or the wing muscles of migrating birds (e.g. geese).

Type II
Type II muscle fibers use primarily anaerobic metabolism and have relatively low endurance. These muscle fibers are typically used during tasks requiring short bursts of strength, such as sprints or weightlifting. Type II muscle fibers cannot sustain contractions for significant lengths of time, and are typically found in the white meat (e.g., the breast) of chicken. There are two sub-classes of type II muscle fibers, type IIa (Fast-Oxidative) and IIb (Fast-Glycolytic). The Type IIa fast-oxidative fibers actually also appear red, due to their high content of myoglobin and mitochondria. Type IIb (Fast-Glycolytic) tire the fastest, and are the prevalent type in sedentary individuals. These fibers appear white histologically, due to their low oxidative demand, manifested by the lack of myoglobulin and mitochondria (relative to the Type I and Type IIa fibers). Some research suggests that these subtypes can switch with training to some degree. The biochemical difference between the three types of muscle fibers is their myosin heavy chains.

These types of muscles are in the categories of skeletal muscle"

While Gufbal's theory may be off a tad, he/she isn't too far off because most people will go overboard and if i read correctly, that's what he/she was saying.

Nothing in what your physiology book states contradicts anything I've said here. But I thank you for sharing it. I've read the studies that suggest that Type IIa fibers can be made to change to type I, but Type II cannot...and that's the majority of your muscle mass. So some change can be affected, but it won't be drastic.
Gufbal's theory wasn't a "tad" off...it was OFF
He stated

Each person is predisposed genetically to either type 1 or type 2.

People are not predisposed to one type OR the other. It is roughly a one to three ratio in Everyone, give or take a Tiny fraction (scientists differ on how tiny of a fraction, but in general...if it's enough to make THAT much of a difference, it's not within the normal range of genetic fluctuation: ie; it'd be a mutation...not that that NEVER occurs) here or there, plus the stated ability to alter the Type IIa fibers through intensive musculo-endurance training. Other than this, it's not really the muscles responsibility to make a person an "endurance" athlete, that has more to do with number and volume of mitochondria (which can have a greater degree of flux than muscle type, according to most research) and the body's ability to execute the Kreb's Cycle, replacing glycogen and ATP (the muscles energy source) faster and more efficiently. THAT has a pronounced impact on endurance and can be Greatly affected through training.

most people will go overboard

...whos this "Most People" group your talking about, and how do You know so much about them?? hahaha....

No.
Most people do not 'go overboard'...

that'd be a portion of the "BodyBuilders", Pro, amateur and enthusiast , a great many of whom take controlled substances to over-ride their bodies somatotypic muscular thresholds and endanger their kidneys and livers.
A normal person (being a person who's body chemistry is pretty much standard, ie; no synthetic hormones) who pushes their body to the limit and seeks to progressively increase strength and muscle mass, and uses good technique and does at least a little flexibility maintenance work WILL NOT get muscle bound and will do nothing but Improve their ability to Quickly/Rapidly and repeatedly contract their muscles over a FULL range of motion.
Period.
Limited range of motion lends itself toward injury! Why would the NFL trainers make HEAVY weight training such a main staple in their athletes if it in anyway limited mobility and ran a greater risk of making them suceptible to injury?
It is a sterio-type, this 'muscle bound' myth. It's often foisted by people who don't train for strength at all or have no knowledge of exercise physiology. IF people perpetuate this myth then some may listen to and believe it (as obviously some here have) and then some may not gain the good they might have through proper weight training.
...and that's really too bad.

Your Brother
John

[Brother John]

Originally Posted by MeatWad2

Dude, my physiology book says the same thing as Gufbal's post about humans being predisposed to genetically having a little more type 1 or type 2 muscle fibers. are you a doctor by any chance?

No, Dude, I'm not.
...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express...


..why?
Do I Need credentials to be taken seriously?
If so, I have some. I generally share that with people who need to know.

I agree with your physiology book, just like I agreed with Gufbal's...
and they both agree with me.
Humans ARE

predisposed to genetically having a little more type 1 or type 2 muscle fibers

..I emphasized the word 'little' to make a point.
It's little, not a lot.
...and as I just pointed out in my last post, Gufbal's own physiology book doesn't agree with HIM
humans aren't predisposed to have either TypeI OR Type II,
it's roughly a 1 to 3 ratio, give or take a little.
nothing more.

Your Brother
John

[Brother John]

Originally Posted by MeatWad2

Ever seen a body builder try to walk or punch? It's slow and funny...

That's your perception, dude.

...and I don't think we are discussing what happens when a steroid abuser tries to walk or punch. When you have the muscle mass of a wooly mamoth on the frame of a mortal human...yeah........it's rediculous.

still: Ever see a "bodybuilder" wrap their arms around a persons torso and "Python" it?
It's devastating
..and not funny.

Your Brother
John

[Brother John]

OH YEAH....

other proven facts about weight training:

• Proper weight training increases 'effective range of motion'.
• It increases vascularity, thus enhancing recourperation for strenuous effort.
• It enhances general coordination and spatial awareness leading too...
• It increases ones sense of balance.
• Developed musculature is a great deal more resilient to impact.
• It assists in blood transportation through PHA (Periphrial Heart Action, secondary blood pumper/mover)
• It contributes to a higher metabolism
• It increases the endorphines used for healing and vigorous work as well as a brighter mood and better concentration.

I'd Love it if anyone would argue against these points.

OH YEAH, two more:

• Boxers use weight training, because it makes their punches STRONGER and FASTER!
• A lot of women find men with developed muscularity (NOT steroid freaks) to be more pleasing to the eye and the Touch than men with soft, shallow muscles!!

...as my wife says:
"A Hard man is GOOD to find!"

Your Brother
John

[Brother John]

Originally Posted by KempoGuy06

Brother John thanks for the insight. That actually helped a lot. On a side note you know anything about joint(tendon/ligament) rehabilitation? (you can PM me)
B

My pleasure my Kempo Brother.
It's my kinda thang....

Yes, I do know about joint rehabilitation.
Please feel free to go to my public profile here on martial talk and use the link to send me an E-mail. I'd be glad to tell you what I can.

Your Brother
John

[KempoGuy06]

Originally Posted by Brother John

My pleasure my Kempo Brother.
It's my kinda thang....

Yes, I do know about joint rehabilitation.
Please feel free to go to my public profile here on martial talk and use the link to send me an E-mail. I'd be glad to tell you what I can.

Your Brother
John

Brother John:

A message has been sent.

B