who gave ed parker his black belt ?

[Doc]

Originally Posted by dianhsuhe

My understanding is that Professor Chow gave Mr. Parker his Black-Belt when he (Parker) left to teach here in the mainland, and there was an agreement between the two that would have been mutually beneficial but this agreement was apparently never fulfilled by Mr. Parker.

Professor was not happy at all with Mr. Parker and did not like his Kenpo, of which Parker admittedly changed 90%. Professor called it "Mosquito fighting".

Mr. Parkers skill and contributions are certainly not in question these days...

Some day soon I hope we can all focus on furthering all of these mens systems, ideals.

According to Ed Parker Sr., when he finally contacted Chow and asked him to come to the mainland to set him up as promised, Chow refused to leave Hawaii. When Parker asked why, Chow said, "I don't want to leave my home. You are now on your own." Parker kept his promise but Chow according to Parker, was not interested at the time. It was only later when Parker's notoriety blossomed that Chow appeared to have a change of heart, but Parker had moved on.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by punisher73

Short Answer, Parker earned his blackbelt under Chow.

Long Answer:

1) Chow earned his BB under Chow, there are pictures of Parker training with Chow in which he is wearing it.

2) There WAS NO purple belt when Parker trained with Chow, so that couldn't have been a possibility

3) Chow, while a great martial artist, was very bitter in the end and would vent about people if asked. It is more likely, he was bad mouthing Parker due to his success while Chow was broke and pennyless.

In the end, both were great martial artists and contributed alot to various systems today.

More importantly, how does that effect what you are doing to better yourself and protect yourself?

To put things in context, in that same interview where he said Parker was a purple belt, he also placed his own rank at 15th degree. Chow was good at pulling your leg, and often would say things just to see how you reacted to it, and then contradict himself later in the conversation.

I don't know of anyone who seriously questions Mr. Parker's Black Belt rank, but even if some dain bramaged person did, what would it matter? Mr. Parker proved he deserved it. Now how about all the guys that have "legitimate" rank, but don't deserve it.

[MarkC]

Originally Posted by Doc

To put things in context, in that same interview where he said Parker was a purple belt, he also placed his own rank at 15th degree. Chow was good at pulling your leg, and often would say things just to see how you reacted to it, and then contradict himself later in the conversation.

I don't know of anyone who seriously questions Mr. Parker's Black Belt rank, but even if some dain bramaged person did, what would it matter? Mr. Parker proved he deserved it. Now how about all the guys that have "legitimate" rank, but don't deserve it.

The Kara-Ho people took that 15th degree thing seriously, it's printed on the membership cards and certificates. Or at least it was.
I always thought 10th was about it....

[Doc]

Originally Posted by MarkC

The Kara-Ho people took that 15th degree thing seriously, it's printed on the membership cards and certificates. Or at least it was.
I always thought 10th was about it....

Once again, according to Mr. Parker, when Mitose claimed the rank of 10th degree, William Chow responded by saying, "If Mitose is 10th, than I'm 15th degree." Apparently as Mr. Parker told it to me, it was not that Chow took the rank seriously, he was only expressing where he felt he was relative to some others claiming 10th. Once again, often making statements for shock value to see how others responded. After all, who was around that was going to tell him he couldn't be 15th? That was his point.

[MarkC]

That's what I assumed too, sir.

[Danjo]

Wow. I remember when I was a kid reading Black Belt Magazine (and several other publications most of which are no longer in print). It was rare that I would read about someone's rank. It was always just that someone was a black belt. No one really cared about the rank after that point unless you were in their organization. It was all about what you could do. We didn't care about what rank Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace, Joe Lewis, or Frank Smith had. I still don't know what rank any of them are. Don't care either. They were still my childhood heroes. (Later this category of "performers" would shift to people like Chuck Liddell, Randy Coutre, Fedor Emilianenko etc.)

There were also those that were my martial arts heroes that were due to TV or Movies: David Carradine, Tom Laughlin, Jim Kelly, Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris (again), Steven Segal, and the Power Rangers (kidding). Again, I couldn't care less about their ranks (if some of them even had any).

Later, I had other heroes in the martial arts world. These were not the "performers" like those mentioned above, but rather the inovaters and teachers. Prof. Chow, Ed Parker, Choki Motobu, Helio Gracie, Adriano Emperado etc. I never dropped my admiration for the previous groups of martial artists mentioned above (though they are all only partial lists), but I had expanded my definition of martial artist.

These days, my focus has shifted to those I actually know (though none of the above is diminished to my mind either). My instructor and the others that I have met and learned from hold more of a place in my ratings. Again, their rank has nothing to do with it. If someone can teach me something I didn't know before, or improve something I already have, then that's all that counts. Whether said knowledge has been rewarded with a stripe on the belt or not is irrelevant.

Rank is important within an organization for organizational purposes (mostly to do with seniority). Outside of that: Who cares?

[KenpoDave]

Originally Posted by Doc

Once again, according to Mr. Parker, when Mitose claimed the rank of 10th degree, William Chow responded by saying, "If Mitose is 10th, than I'm 15th degree." Apparently as Mr. Parker told it to me, it was not that Chow took the rank seriously, he was only expressing where he felt he was relative to some others claiming 10th. Once again, often making statements for shock value to see how others responded. After all, who was around that was going to tell him he couldn't be 15th? That was his point.

That is interesting. I did not recall Mitose ever claiming a degree of black belt. I had always heard that Chow's claim of 15th was in response to Parker claiming 10th. After all, Chow had taught Parker, and it was unusual at that time for there to be more than one. Not anymore, though...

[Milt G.]

Originally Posted by KenpoDave

That is interesting. I did not recall Mitose ever claiming a degree of black belt. I had always heard that Chow's claim of 15th was in response to Parker claiming 10th. After all, Chow had taught Parker, and it was unusual at that time for there to be more than one. Not anymore, though...

Hi, Dave...

I agree. That is how I heard the story as well.

I believe the interview with William Chow (written) related this same version. Did Chow make that statement in regards to James Mitose as well? I would certainly not put it past him. As I understand it, Chow never really claimed 15th Dan. He was just using it as an example of his knowledge and skill as compared to others holding the 10th Dan in Kenpo. I think he had some "feelings" about others that were elevated to the same rank as his.

I have not heard about James Mitose claiming any certain rank, either. I do know that the early Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo system did have a detailed rank structure. All understood that James Mitose (Later, Thomas Mitose, because of blood line only. In the earlier times, anyway.) was at the top of the "food chain". Mitose was considered the "honorable great grandmaster" only, to the best of my recollection. The seniors of Kosho-Ryu could be asked. Sadly, some bad feelings and politics may cloud the issue some. The same as some other arts, I guess?

Kenpo... A long and winding road. At best, and at worst.

Happy Holidays.
Milt G.