Good uke?

[Chadms04]

I have been training for a few months now and am courious what every one thinks a good training partner should do to make the techniques more realistic. Because Ive trianed with people who fall over when there is a strong brezze and also with people who oppose you so much you cant do the technique, because they know what is going to happen.

Me I try and punch smooth and fluiently and if they dont move hit them softly. And when getting took to the ground try and ressit alittle but not to much.

thanks in advance

Chad

[jks9199]

The role of the uke (or training partner "receiving" the technique) is the same across most styles. Your job is to provide an attack or target for tori (the one doing the technique) to work with. As the skill and familiarity with the technique grow, your resistance should increase -- but you should always be making them do the technique properly without "cheating" because you know what's coming. I'll focus on defensive applications in the explanation -- but it applies equally to practicing offensive techniques.

Let's say the technique your practicing is a simple step backwards, deflection/strike/block, then full step in with a strike. As uke, when you throw the strike, it should be in range to make contact, and follow the proper principles. (You're practicing that strike, so don't cheat yourself of training by doing some half-hearted punch-like motion that wouldn't scare a mouse.) The first time you're working the technique, you may move slower, you may telegraph the strike a little, and you'll probably leave your hand out there to be deflected/blocked. Tori should not move faster than you! As you practice, you'll increase the speed and focus or force, cut out the telegraph, and be less cooperative about being deflected... Eventually, you should be able to throw different strikes that trigger the same response, attempt to counter, and just plain make it hard for tori to succeed, unless they do the technique properly.

A caution... If you rush through this process, neither of you will be using the technique properly. You'll be using muscle power instead of sound principles, or skipping through the proper body dynamics and positioning. And if you never move beyond the passive level... you're just dancing together.

[nitflegal]

I think in a lot of ways being a good uke is much harder than being their partner. To be an adequate uke is fairly straightforward; execute your technique(s) properly at a speed and power that gives you total control over your own body. If you're supposed to punch the guy in the jaw, aim for the jaw and punch so that they have to move, but at a speed where you will have the control to lightly touch them if they don't. Do not attempt to foil the technique unless your technique IS to foil the technique. Provide feedback as you can.

It's the feedback that elevates you from a decent uke to a good one (dare I say great?). Don't shortchange your learning but you should be evaluating your partner to give him/her that feedback. If they can't make the jutaijutsu work, you should be evaluating why they can't capture and/or disrupt your balance and tell them. Look to their taijutsu because they probably won't be focussed so you can let them know if they stepped outside instead of inside, didn't trap the foot properly, fit the meat of the forearm instead of the sweet spot at the joint, whether you had that ground falling away from you feeling in the throw or if it was muscled, etc. Physically give them some intent to work off and then give them tips to assist. Don't pick them apart but a "OK, try dropping your elbow just a bit and raising your clasped hands more to your forehead can turn frustration to progress for them. That's your job.

Encouragement should be a part as well. If you're doing 10 minutes of en-undo you should be encouraging each other to keep going, control the tempo, keep the stances low and the taijutsu full. A great uke isn't just a practice dummy, they're a motivator and a teaching assistant.

Matt

[Aikicomp]

Originally Posted by jks9199

The role of the uke (or training partner "receiving" the technique) is the same across most styles. Your job is to provide an attack or target for tori (the one doing the technique) to work with. As the skill and familiarity with the technique grow, your resistance should increase -- but you should always be making them do the technique properly without "cheating" because you know what's coming. I'll focus on defensive applications in the explanation -- but it applies equally to practicing offensive techniques.

Let's say the technique your practicing is a simple step backwards, deflection/strike/block, then full step in with a strike. As uke, when you throw the strike, it should be in range to make contact, and follow the proper principles. (You're practicing that strike, so don't cheat yourself of training by doing some half-hearted punch-like motion that wouldn't scare a mouse.) The first time you're working the technique, you may move slower, you may telegraph the strike a little, and you'll probably leave your hand out there to be deflected/blocked. Tori should not move faster than you! As you practice, you'll increase the speed and focus or force, cut out the telegraph, and be less cooperative about being deflected... Eventually, you should be able to throw different strikes that trigger the same response, attempt to counter, and just plain make it hard for tori to succeed, unless they do the technique properly.

A caution... If you rush through this process, neither of you will be using the technique properly. You'll be using muscle power instead of sound principles, or skipping through the proper body dynamics and positioning. And if you never move beyond the passive level... you're just dancing together.

Originally Posted by nitflegal

I think in a lot of ways being a good uke is much harder than being their partner. To be an adequate uke is fairly straightforward; execute your technique(s) properly at a speed and power that gives you total control over your own body. If you're supposed to punch the guy in the jaw, aim for the jaw and punch so that they have to move, but at a speed where you will have the control to lightly touch them if they don't. Do not attempt to foil the technique unless your technique IS to foil the technique. Provide feedback as you can.

It's the feedback that elevates you from a decent uke to a good one (dare I say great?). Don't shortchange your learning but you should be evaluating your partner to give him/her that feedback. If they can't make the jutaijutsu work, you should be evaluating why they can't capture and/or disrupt your balance and tell them. Look to their taijutsu because they probably won't be focussed so you can let them know if they stepped outside instead of inside, didn't trap the foot properly, fit the meat of the forearm instead of the sweet spot at the joint, whether you had that ground falling away from you feeling in the throw or if it was muscled, etc. Physically give them some intent to work off and then give them tips to assist. Don't pick them apart but a "OK, try dropping your elbow just a bit and raising your clasped hands more to your forehead can turn frustration to progress for them. That's your job.

Encouragement should be a part as well. If you're doing 10 minutes of en-undo you should be encouraging each other to keep going, control the tempo, keep the stances low and the taijutsu full. A great uke isn't just a practice dummy, they're a motivator and a teaching assistant.

Matt

Good solid advice and quoted for truth...it's what I tell all my students.

In regards to being an uke when thrown (Aikido, Judo, Ju-Jitsu) the #1 reason to be a good uke is to protect yourself, allowing you to survive the technique being applied and #2 it will give you feedback as to how to apply the technique.

for example, When I first learned Tai Otoshi (Oh so many years ago ) I just could not get the throw down and was getting a little bummed out. I was really good at ukemi and after the class a blackbelt (seeing I was having trouble) came over to me and threw me about 15 times with Tai Otoshi...the light bulb went off and the act of being thrown by a high rank let me "feel" how the throw was supposed to be done. Then to my suprise he let me practice the throw on him! I was a blue belt at the time (first belt) and I was so excited and apprehensive about throwing a Sandan, but, all worked out well and I got the throw down.

Sometimes feeling how a technique is done is better than trying to just do a technique alone.

Michael

[Chadms04]

How far apart should be the skill level you try and train with? Because for me fairly new i try and train with the better guys 2nd and 3rd kyus but it gets very frustrating when I cant do a techniqe because they are so soild and it is very difficult to get them off balance but when I train with the new guys it seems like we miss alot of the finer points and kind of spin our wheels intill we get shown again also one more thing should you try and train with only one person or just who ever? Not sure if any of this matters but would like to know what some other people think.

Thanks again

Chad

[jks9199]

Originally Posted by Chadms04

How far apart should be the skill level you try and train with? Because for me fairly new i try and train with the better guys 2nd and 3rd kyus but it gets very frustrating when I cant do a techniqe because they are so soild and it is very difficult to get them off balance but when I train with the new guys it seems like we miss alot of the finer points and kind of spin our wheels intill we get shown again also one more thing should you try and train with only one person or just who ever? Not sure if any of this matters but would like to know what some other people think.

Thanks again

Chad

Your relative ranks don't really matter much. Two beginners can train together, or two very advanced students. In many cases, it can be very beneficial to have a more experienced training partner because the role of the senior then is to help the junior student develop to their level by adapting the experience to the junior's skill. At the same time, training with a junior can make the senior student focus on their fundamentals. But training with someone at about the same level is also good; you both figure the technique out as your skill develops.