Best home study course Dvd's American kenpo

[MJS]

Originally Posted by kempo

Wow I guess I just assumed that there wasnt any deviation from Ed Parkers kenpo system. Mr Cogliandro trained with Mr. Ed Parker from 1983 to 1987 which Mr. Parker promoted Mr. Cogliandro from 3rd degree black belt to 5th degree black belt. Apparently he is the founder of American Kenpo International and teaches the Ed Parker system. There are 3-4 schools in Maine and the closest school is about an hr drive away. What I think I will do is continue my training in SKK then down the road pursue the system of Ed Parkers American Kenpo through one of Mr. Cogliandro's school.

Many people worked with Mr. Parker. However, I'd be willing to bet that if you took 4 people who trained under him, and had them do a technique, there would be a pretty good chance that you'd see some variations.

It sounds like you have a good plan in motion. May as well get your black in SKK and then if you choose to look at other Kenpo arts, go for it.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by kempo

I am looking for your recomendation on the best home study course (Dvd's )on Ed Parkers American Kenpo system. I currently train 2 times a wk in Shaolin Kempo and because there are no American Kenpo schools in my area I am forced to learn it on my own. I do have a brown belt in Shaolin kempo so I am very familliar with this kempo and enjoy it very much but at the same time I am very interested in learing Ed Parkers Kenpo system.

Thank you

Chris

There aren't any.

[Big Don]

I'm reminded of the scene in The Karate Kid where Mr Miyagi questions "Learn Karate from BOOK?"
Same-Same.

[sjansen]

It always frustrates me when people badmouth books and videos for training. Can you learn math from a book or video? Can you learn to play basebal from a book or video? Of course you can. I agree that a live instructor is better, but what do you do when one is not available? Stop training? Stop trying to better yourself?

People in California especialy seem to like to bad mouth all of the books and video programs out there because they have 20 dojos within driving distance.

Don't listen to the naysayers. I have learned plenty from books and videos.

[Flying Crane]

Originally Posted by kempo

Wow I guess I just assumed that there wasnt any deviation from Ed Parkers kenpo system. Mr Cogliandro trained with Mr. Ed Parker from 1983 to 1987 which Mr. Parker promoted Mr. Cogliandro from 3rd degree black belt to 5th degree black belt. Apparently he is the founder of American Kenpo International and teaches the Ed Parker system. There are 3-4 schools in Maine and the closest school is about an hr drive away. What I think I will do is continue my training in SKK then down the road pursue the system of Ed Parkers American Kenpo through one of Mr. Cogliandro's school.

Yes, I didn't understand the variety either until I started reading thru some of the discussions here. Of course I knew that Tracys was different from what came later, but I didn't realize that there was so much variation among those lineages that sprung from Mr. Parker later as well.

Honestly, I think there is no such thing as EPAK, or Parker Kenpo, as a unified entity. From what I have observed in the discussions, it seems there is quite a lot of variation, altho on the surface it may appear very similar to an uneducated eye. But just search thru the various discussions here and over on Kenpotalk, the ones that focus on the details of various self defense techniques or kata. You will see lots and lots of people chiming in with how THEY do it, and while the skeleton may be essentially the same, you will see quite a lot of variation and very little standardization across the board when it comes to the details. And the details can make all the difference.

I think there are simply many different lineages, each stemming from those who studied with Mr. Parker, propagating kenpo as they personally learned it. It doesn't necessarily mean one lineage is better than another, rather it just reflects how much and how well the individual learned what he learned from Mr. Parker, and how well he is able to transmit it down to his own students. So rather than calling it EPAK, or Parker kenpo, or something like that, I personally think it is more accurate to state the lineage of the individual who studied directly with Mr. Parker. This includes Tracys, Planas, Trejo, Chapel, White, Mills, and any of the others who are viewed as leaders in the Kenpo world today. That's my way of looking at it, anyway.

[Flying Crane]

Originally Posted by sjansen

It always frustrates me when people badmouth books and videos for training. Can you learn math from a book or video?

yes you can, but math is an intellectual exercise that doesn't need to translate into a physical skill that you may need to save your life. Intellectual knowledge can be learned from books and videos, and this can have a place in the martial arts as well. However in the martial arts, that knowledge needs to be translated into a very real physical skill. For that, books and video simply do not fit the bill. For that, you MUST have a good instructor who can show you where you are doing things wrong, and can help you put that intellectual knowledge into physical use and action.

Can you learn to play basebal from a book or video? Of course you can.

again, yes you can and after reading the book you can go outside and get someone to pitch a ball to you and you can swing and hack away at it for all you're worth. Eventually you will even hit the ball a few times, and you can figure out how to deal with fielding the ball and running the bases. Personally, my Dad and the older kids in the neighborhood taught me how to do it. I didn't learn this from a book either.

And again, even tho baseball is a set of physical skills, it isn't something that will translate into skills that might be needed to save your life. You can happily play baseball at a low skill level all your life, and there is nothing wrong with that. Martial arts are simply a different thing. You want higher level skills for that and you need a good teacher to develop that.

I agree that a live instructor is better, but what do you do when one is not available? Stop training? Stop trying to better yourself?

in the case of this person, he already has a teacher in Shaolin kenpo. He is best to stick with that.

People in California especialy seem to like to bad mouth all of the books and video programs out there because they have 20 dojos within driving distance.

there is simply a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Nobody said life was fair.

Personally, I drive over an hour each direction, twice a week, for my kenpo training. A good teacher isn't found in every streetcorner dojo. Sometimes you gotta search them out and be willing to make sacrifices to be able to train with them. And that means being smart enough to pass up the poor options that abound, including the book and video route.

[Twin Fist]

There IS such a thing as EPAK

he set the standards n the Infinite Insights books. he set in stone what his requirements for rank are.

Any school that doesnt follow that isnt teaching EPAK, but "so and so's version of EPAK".

And I think the Tatum videos are very, very good.

as far as videos being useless for training, i would say it depends.

no beginner can learn a system from videos

someone with considerable experience can learn a LOT from them.

[kempo]

Originally Posted by Twin Fist

There IS such a thing as EPAK

he set the standards n the Infinite Insights books. he set in stone what his requirements for rank are.

Any school that doesnt follow that isnt teaching EPAK, but "so and so's version of EPAK".

And I think the Tatum videos are very, very good.

as far as videos being useless for training, i would say it depends.

no beginner can learn a system from videos

someone with considerable experience can learn a LOT from them.

I have to agree with you here, even though aparently alot of people dont. Now what about the IKCA system, Karate Connection, they have hunreds of black belts and most of them not all of them learned from videos, and have done it under 2 years. Now there is a teacher that I talked with who lives about 20min from my house who got his black belt through video training with the IKCA system and is now a 4th degree black belt. I have not seen him in action but I am sure he is pretty good. Now I am not going to say that I am 100% all for training and earning your black belt through video training, but for someone like myself who is training with an instructor 2 times a wk in shaolin kempo and wants to learn some of the self defense techniques from american kenpo to add to my arsinault is not a bad Idea. Hell you can go on youtube and type in any of the american kenpo techniques such as delayed sword and learn it. Unlike Shaolin Kempo, there are alot of American Kenpo techniques on youtube..

[Flying Crane]

Originally Posted by kempo

I have to agree with you here, even though aparently alot of people dont.

my comment was that there is no widely accepted standardization as to HOW things are to be done. Yes, Mr. Parker did document content of the "system" (which, it seems, was sort of constantly changing), but to my knowledge, the details about just HOW things are to be done was left very loose. So the list of techniques and kata may be the same under different lineages, but just exactly how they apply the information and put it to use can be fairly different. Again, dig thru the many threads on specific techniques, and you will see the variety that I am talking about. I think you will see more of these threads over on the sister site, Kenpotalk.com. But that is what i mean when I say that it is really just a bunch of different lineages under people who studied under Mr. Parker. They didn't all learn everything the same, and in that sense, there is no true or complete constistency from one Parker Lineage to another. In that sense, there is no standardized "EPAK".

Now what about the IKCA system, Karate Connection, they have hunreds of black belts and most of them not all of them learned from videos, and have done it under 2 years.

I have no experience with them so I cannot offer a concrete critique of what they do. I do know that Chuck Sullivan was with Mr. Parker for a very long time. That being said, I personally would never undertake to study strictly thru theirs or anybody else's video course. If I was looking for another kenpo teacher, and one of their people was nearby, I might choose to study with him if I felt he was good. But if I knew that HIS training was strictly, or predominantly thru video in his living room, that alone would make me look elsewhere. That's just my own personal view on it. Some people feel differently than I do, and you are of course welcome to use your own critical thinking and make your own decisions.

... but for someone like myself who is training with an instructor 2 times a wk in shaolin kempo and wants to learn some of the self defense techniques from american kenpo to add to my arsinault is not a bad Idea.

Do you feel your SK training is lacking or leaving dangerous gaps in your training? If so you might want to reconsider training with that instructor as well.

Hell you can go on youtube and type in any of the american kenpo techniques such as delayed sword and learn it. Unlike Shaolin Kempo, there are alot of American Kenpo techniques on youtube..

[/quote]

that's true, and again, from my own perspective, I don't understand why people do this. Personally, I like to keep my training held close. I don't post it out there for the world to gawk at. It's something very personal to me, I've worked for many years on it, and I'm not interested in turning it into performance art, nor am I interested in trying to impress the kenpo/martial arts community with what I can do. And neither am I interested in trying to teach the faceless masses of people who log onto Youtube. I just don't understand why people are so keen on posting everything there. But again, that's just me.

But getting back to the main point: what if you learn Delayed Sword from some random Youtube clip, and then you show up for a lesson with Mr. Cogliandro, and he tells you that what you learned from the video is all wrong, and it should be done THIS way instead? Now who do you believe? Which way do you want to do it? How much time did you waste, trying to learn it from Youtube?

[Flying Crane]

Originally Posted by Flying Crane

my comment was that there is no widely accepted standardization as to HOW things are to be done. Yes, Mr. Parker did document content of the "system" (which, it seems, was sort of constantly changing), but to my knowledge, the details about just HOW things are to be done was left very loose. So the list of techniques and kata may be the same under different lineages, but just exactly how they apply the information and put it to use can be fairly different. Again, dig thru the many threads on specific techniques, and you will see the variety that I am talking about.

Check out Post #3 in this thread, for a brief example of what I am talking about. This recent post by Dr. Dave hits the point I'm making pretty clearly.

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69543