Information on Bujutsu?

[Shawn_Hoffman]

Hello ladies & gents,

I don't know if i'm in the right forum section, but i'm looking for some information on a martial art called "Bujutsu."

The specific art that i'm looking for looks just like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFAQDIFAu6Y
I hope it's ok for me to post links here.

Anyways, I found this art to be of my liking.

The information that I am asking for is basically location of schools in the US, and does this martial art differ than the Koryu arts?

All information provided will be much appreciated!

Thank you!

[Bruno@MT]

There is no singular art called 'bujutsu'.
Bujutsu 武術 literally means 'Martial Art' in Japanese, though the term is also used to indicate a distinction between koryu and gendai fighting systems.

That said, the clip you posted has absolutely nothing to do with bujutsu, whatsoever. Really, if you are looking for bujutsu, that is not what you will find.
From looking at the clip, I'd say thet practice a modern type of jujutsu geared towards MMA. Your best bet is posting that clip in the MMA forum here and mention you are looking for something like that. Forget about the bujutsu name because that is not going to help you.

[Chris Parker]

Hi Shawn,

Uh, sorry to say, no, this isn't the right place, although I can see where you may have thought that from the name of this group.

Bujutsu is a term that refers to Japanese martial arts, in fact, it is a term that means "martial arts", pretty much literally. These guys appear to be a one-off group in Belgium (frankly, the use of the name doesn't bode well for their background or understanding of terminology), so I wouldn't expect to find them in the US. Essentially, they are a modern, free-form ecletic martial system based on competitive disciplines, from the looks of them, and are about as far from Koryu as you can get.

So you know, Koryu looks more like this:

Takenouchi Ryu Kogusoku

Sekiguchi Shinshin Ryu Jujutsu

Hontai Yoshin Ryu Jujutsu

Tenshin Shinyo Ryu, a source school for modern Judo

Fusen Ryu Jujutsu

Yagyu Shingan Ryu Taijutsu

Sosuishi Ryu Kumi Uchi

As you can see, there is a world of difference between modern systems and Koryu. Both have their benefits, advantages, uses, fans, and so on, and neither is better than the other, just better suited to a particular persons wants, needs, and desires. If you are impressed by what the Bujutsu guys do, then you won't be into Koryu.

[Shawn_Hoffman]

Chris,

Thank you. The clips you posted don't seem to be my cup of tea. While that may suit one person better, I wouldn't really feel comfortable with that martial art style.

Question though: Why do they call their selves "Bujutsu" and appear to apply their martial arts fighting so well?

[Chris Parker]

Hey Shawn,

Not a problem, thought that may be the case.

As to why they use the term "Bujutsu", it's most likely just a school name, not a style. If a style name, it's not a very intelligent, or appropriate one. Bluntly, though, I found little impressive in the clip, they were going through some sparring, that was about it. And that wasn't particularly impressive either. In terms of combative approach, it's very lacking. If you want to compete in some form, it's okay, but it doesn't seem to fit many rule sets, not even MMA to a great degree. So I'm a little unsure of it's applicability there. But, again, if you like it, that's great. You may want to check out some MMA gyms in the US, though, there's bound to be one nearby I warrant. And it could be much closer to what you're after.

[Bruno@MT]

It's from Belgium, and the rules for their org may be different from the typical UFC rules.
Looking at their clips, it seems that this is just their school name, and not the name of their style.

[Shawn_Hoffman]

Hey Shawn,

Not a problem, thought that may be the case.

As to why they use the term "Bujutsu", it's most likely just a school name, not a style. If a style name, it's not a very intelligent, or appropriate one. Bluntly, though, I found little impressive in the clip, they were going through some sparring, that was about it. And that wasn't particularly impressive either. In terms of combative approach, it's very lacking. If you want to compete in some form, it's okay, but it doesn't seem to fit many rule sets, not even MMA to a great degree. So I'm a little unsure of it's applicability there. But, again, if you like it, that's great. You may want to check out some MMA gyms in the US, though, there's bound to be one nearby I warrant. And it could be much closer to what you're after.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you see that you don't really like and what do you feel is lacking? How could this style not work outside of the ring?

[Chris Parker]

It's combat sport, and nothing different than many other people I've seen, really. In terms of what I wasn't impressed with, the distancing is unrealistic, the tactics are, for the most part, ill-advised, there is a dangerous habit of dropping guard after "blocking" an unrealistic high kick, there is a prevalence of going to the ground, the ground-and-pound concept is rather powerless the way they're going about it here, there's a lot of throwing techniques, and hoping for some kind of result, and more.

In terms of it working for the street, it's simply not designed for it. The methods of sweeping, the ground work, and more are badly done for that, to say the least. As a competitive approach, it's okay, but nothing special. As a self defence approach, it's completely removed from real violence. I'd suggest reading Rory Miller's "Meditations On Violence", and pretty much anything from Geoff Thompson. You'll get a better idea of just how far removed this type of thing really is then (so you know, the Koryu stuff is actually much closer to real violence there).

[Bruno@MT]

The thing about distancing is this: if people expect that a failed attack or technique is going to get them seriously hurt, they maintain much more distance. Normally, both people try to stay outside each others' range until they either see an opening which they can use, or (which is the more koryu approach) they wait for the other to attack, and then close distance and counter.

Having 2 people standing within each others range, trading blows, is rather unnatural for the purpose of self defense or survival. That is more something for in a competition setting where 2 people have to go at each other. Because if one of the parties tries to wait / evade, then there is not much of a fight.

[Shawn_Hoffman]

It's combat sport, and nothing different than many other people I've seen, really. In terms of what I wasn't impressed with, the distancing is unrealistic, the tactics are, for the most part, ill-advised, there is a dangerous habit of dropping guard after "blocking" an unrealistic high kick, there is a prevalence of going to the ground, the ground-and-pound concept is rather powerless the way they're going about it here, there's a lot of throwing techniques, and hoping for some kind of result, and more.

In terms of it working for the street, it's simply not designed for it. The methods of sweeping, the ground work, and more are badly done for that, to say the least. As a competitive approach, it's okay, but nothing special. As a self defence approach, it's completely removed from real violence. I'd suggest reading Rory Miller's "Meditations On Violence", and pretty much anything from Geoff Thompson. You'll get a better idea of just how far removed this type of thing really is then (so you know, the Koryu stuff is actually much closer to real violence there).

Who is Rory Miller and where can I find this book?
Well, as far as throwing techniques... what's wrong with that? Don't you have to get close enough to your enemy to be able to attack him? Throwing techniques are kind of good to learn; aren't they?

[jks9199]

Rory Miller is a retired corrections sergeant with extensive personal experience regarding violence -- and predators. Meditation on Violence is available at many bookstores, and is an excellent examination of the realities of violence compared to the fantasies that rule many martial arts training halls. His next book is due out soon, as well. You can find his blog here and Chiron Training is his website.

[Shawn_Hoffman]

Rory Miller is a retired corrections sergeant with extensive personal experience regarding violence -- and predators. Meditation on Violence is available at many bookstores, and is an excellent examination of the realities of violence compared to the fantasies that rule many martial arts training halls. His next book is due out soon, as well. You can find his blog here and Chiron Training is his website.

Hey, thanks it sounds very interesting and I think i'll get this.
Thanks!

[Chris Parker]

Who is Rory Miller and where can I find this book?
Well, as far as throwing techniques... what's wrong with that? Don't you have to get close enough to your enemy to be able to attack him? Throwing techniques are kind of good to learn; aren't they?

JKS has explained about Rory Miller, he really cannot be recommended enough if your concern is real violence. Same with Geoff Thompson.

As far as "throwing attacks", that's not exactly what I meant. What I was getting at was the fact that they were starting out of "dueling" distance (several feet from each other at the closest), and were throwing kicks, strikes etc with little to no real reason, just as a way of testing defences in order to hopefully get in and do something useful. And even then, strikes and so forth are thrown with little more than hope that they'll land somewhere well enough to do some form of damage or have some kind of effect. This is common in sparring/sporting sytems, as you have time to "test" someone, you start knowing who your opponent is, they are placed in front of you, there are specific expected attacks and defences, and so on. In real violence, none of this is the case. You may notice that the Koryu methods tend towards fast, instant, direct, deliberate actions. That is part of what I was getting at with my comment that the Koryu systems can actually be far closer to real violence than many people think.

In terms of getting close enough to your enemy to attack him, that's the opposite of self defence, you know. If you're moving in in order to attack, you've become the assailant, and that's assault, not self defence. But, happily (ha!), most assaults happen, not from the far distance seen in the sparring methods, but from what is sometimes refered to as a "conversation distance", or "interview distance", within about a foot and a half. That's where an attack comes from.

[Krevon]

As far as "throwing attacks", that's not exactly what I meant. What I was getting at was the fact that they were starting out of "dueling" distance (several feet from each other at the closest), and were throwing kicks, strikes etc with little to no real reason, just as a way of testing defences in order to hopefully get in and do something useful. And even then, strikes and so forth are thrown with little more than hope that they'll land somewhere well enough to do some form of damage or have some kind of effect. This is common in sparring/sporting sytems, as you have time to "test" someone, you start knowing who your opponent is, they are placed in front of you, there are specific expected attacks and defences, and so on. In real violence, none of this is the case. You may notice that the Koryu methods tend towards fast, instant, direct, deliberate actions. That is part of what I was getting at with my comment that the Koryu systems can actually be far closer to real violence than many people think.

In terms of getting close enough to your enemy to attack him, that's the opposite of self defence, you know. If you're moving in in order to attack, you've become the assailant, and that's assault, not self defence. But, happily (ha!), most assaults happen, not from the far distance seen in the sparring methods, but from what is sometimes refered to as a "conversation distance", or "interview distance", within about a foot and a half. That's where an attack comes from.

This....There is a big difference in winning a competition and surviving an altercation.