I often hear people say disparagingly that Hapkido is just TKD with joint locks, or that Hapkido is just an 'add-on' art for TKD. I don't think they quite understand, but I am willing to believe that that's what they've seen--that that's been their experience of Hapkido.

What is it about Hapkido that makes it your principal art rather than a secondary one (second to TKD in most cases)? What's special about it as compared to TKD? I'm not looking to see TKD put down, but it's so very common for me to see only Hapkido practitioners that are first and foremost TKD practitioners that I'm curious to hear from those who put Hapkido first.

HKD gives me a wide range of options, close in to long distance, control, destruction, controlled distruction, up down, left right...all kinda cool stuff. It's fluid by nature and allows me to asses and react as such. Not sure if that's what your looking for, but that's why I chose it as my primary

I actually consider TKD my 'second art'. I believe TKD helped me develop the basics as in kicks, blocks, and some stances that furthered my HKD practice. Since I practice both, I guess I consider TKD the base and HKD the technical aspect. However, I learned TKD and HKD from 2 different instructors in separate classes. The kwan I studied with in Korea, Soong Moo Kwan (KHF, KTA, KHDKDA), taught HKD, TKD, and HDKD, however, HKD is the main focus. My TKD instructor was also my HDKD instructor. My HKD instructor was my TKD instructor's HDKD senior (confused yet?), so he would help me out with HDKD after my HKD class.
I do not think it is right for instructors to advertise that they teach HKD when they really do not. Since returning to the US, I visited 2 schools in my area that both advertised TKD, HKD and HDKD. At the first school, the Kwanjang said he only taught TKD and HDKD. He said he knew Tukgong Musool, but he refused to teach anyone as it was too dangerous an art.
The second school I visited the Kwanjang offered that he teaches HKD as part of his TKD curriculum. I joined his school mostly for the workout and the HDKD curriculum. I still have not seen any HKD practiced. In fact, there has been some mention of me teaching some of the other BBs some HKD techniques.
I am still looking for a HKD school within a reasonable distance. If I cannot find one, I may start my own.
Korean Martial Arts Dojang (http://www.hoshinsool.tk/)

Hello all,

Well I can't speak for all HKD schools.. but I know that ours.. we are not in this for the sport aspect (although lots of TKD school are.. but not all...) we are actually a Hybrid of Hapkido!!! we focus on true self defence.. we are now using priciples from Kosho Ryu.. and now heavily getting into Pressure points (kyho shu jujitsu...sp???) SO... in my opinion we are nothing like TKD.. and if you don't think so.. drop on in.... we'd love to have ya come in....

Would'nt be a bad idea to start teaching HKD at the school your with now, as long as the owner does right by you. It's a lot cheaper than trying to start your own, with no students to start with. This way you could possibly build a student base and then when the time should prove right, you could go on your own. Just my opinion.:asian:

That is a good idea. I recently thought about that. Last Tuesday, after classes were over, we practiced falling techniques (Nakbups). Now, several BBs want me to teach them HKD Nakbups (after class). This could be the start of something good. I'll let you know what happens. I also contacted the post gym about starting a martial arts club or a self-defense class. Apparently, there is a womens' self-defense class starting up. I have to contact the manager during the week to develop more on this.

Best of luck. Hope everything turns out well for you. Like you said, good things could be happining, I hope so. Bt all means, please keep all of us advised on how things are progressing.
:asian:

i consider hapkido to be my first art.

i started learning this first (before taekwon-do) and i consider the flow to be more prevalent when practising hapkido techniques than in taekwon-do.

i have more experience of hapkido than of taekwon-do but i have found that my kicking and punching range is more taekwon-do in nature now and my trapping/ locking/ and throwing are definitely very much hapkido.

i enjoy both though.

You know although the kicking in TKD and Hapkido to the bystander may seem the same they are very different, Hapkido kicks don't use the snap out principle, authentic, untainted hapkido kicking uses a whipping motion in the leg, and most kicks are delivered with the knee joint slightly bent and not fully extended or locked out,

also the philosopy of attacking is totally different in the two arts, in TKD you have more of an in and back out approach to your attacking, in Hapkido you enter and stay entered and approx. 95 percent of all the techniques end up with your opponent eventually on the ground and controlled..

I teach hapkido now and have taught at four different TKD dojangs over the last 6 years and my program is always seperate from the TKD program,, lots of students attend classes in both arts but no offense to anyone and no disrespect to TKD but I refuse to teach them together because they are totally two different martial arts with different ways of moving, entering, attacking, etc... to the novice eye they may look close to the same but they are not...
Michael Tomlinson

1- What is HKDK?
2- I considered hapkido but ended up going with kung fu because thats what I really had my mind set on.
I watched a hapkido class this summer, and the students at this class didnt seem to have a smooth flow, when I watched them it seemed like something was missing. All the moves seemed kind of seperated as opposed to flowing into another the way you would expect in an art so closely related to aikido.
My question is, is the flow of techniques and moves in hapkido closer to aikido or other styles or tae kwon do?
I guess i am asking in your school how do you move?

brothershaw - Do you mean HDKD? That is Haedong Kumdo, a Korean sword art.
Disco - I will hold my first class tomorrow morning. I'll let you know how it goes. It looks like I'll start with six students.

yes, thankyou.

That's a pretty good start. Best of luck and keep us posted.;)

Brothershaw,

Fluidity is something we all strive for and I have to say, something not very easily (or quickly achieved). I have heard it said that Aikido is one of the most useless arts if you study it for a short period, the understanding of body mechanics and fluidity only come after you have studied it for a long time. However, once you have studied it for a long time it is highly effective.

Bear in mind of course that this is hearsay. I would suggest that the same is true of hapkido although to a lesser degree. I have seen people who have trained for 12 months who scare me - not because they are so good, but rather because they aren't fluid and are highly likely to damage me. Am I more fluid? I would like to think so but I would in no way consider myslef to be a good hapkidoin.

Respectfully

Originally posted by fringe_dweller
I have heard it said that Aikido is one of the most useless arts if you study it for a short period, the understanding of body mechanics and fluidity only come after you have studied it for a long time. However, once you have studied it for a long time it is highly effective.

I've heard the same about Aikido, but not about Hapkido--I understood that one could get fairly effective at a reasonable rate in it.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective :)

Being only 25 I consider putting five years of my life into something a long committment!!

The people I see who have been training solidly for five years tend to be quite good at what they know.
I only mentioned aikido in the sense of flow, people who use efficient technique.

Respectfully

speaking from experience - as a beginner watching people with 1-2 years of experience in any art, they seem to be good. after about 2 years, I understood how much I really sucked when I first started, and how people after 1.5- 2 years (myself included ) aren't that great. At the same time you see how it takes about 5 years to hopefully be at the minimum level of "good" that I 'd like to reach.
When watching raw beginners I can see how much I have progressed, but also now have a good idea of how much farther I have to go. I believe in martial arts this is fairly universal except for those who can really make the time to train, or have exceptional athleticism.
And looking backwards and forwards, 5 years isnt that long.

I can see why a lot of people look at HKD being an accessory to TKD. Some TKD schools treat it that way. If the TKD system as taught is lacking, then the HKD curriculum can indeed be a useful accessory. Often the TKD practitioner will appreciate the system and go on to practice it more in-depth.

I argue there is no "complete" art. By "complete" I mean an art that has reached some sort of zenith, a point where nothing is lacking insofar as self-defense. This definition suggests and end point, a product, instead of a process. It is also an unrealistic world view.

I'd prefer any arts I practice to be in transition, evolving to meet the needs of the times.

There is nothing wrong with "archiving" an art and attempting to keep it the same as it always has been (but I also think this impossible). Many styles do this and it has its purposes for the practitioners of that system. It certainly serves an historical function.

But adopting a progressive method of training allows one to look outside his art for new things. The TKD guy can get some insights into sweeps and throws from the HKD method. The HKD guy can stay current with useful footwork and kicking methods developed by the TKD people. Both can look at a Combat Submission Wrestler and integrate techniques from that art. Both can look at kali and learn to appreciate the Filipino approach to the use of the blade or bludgeon.

Some would argue against this evolution, but history shows us it is the martial way.

Regards,

Steve Scott

hapkido is close thought to a complete art. I am still working witha hapkido instructor right now in sanfor me. He teaches out of a garage and doesn't even ask for a lot of money for classes. The art he has ever studied is hapkido. He is indeed an all around good fighter as well. But I do think all arts have somthing missing and looking into more then one art can be a good thing. Hapkido and tkd must go togeather very well. You have a punching and kick art with a locking and throwing art. the two make sense to me.

By my definition of it as a process? Or as a product?

How long have you been training with this guy?


SCS

he is my seconh hapkido and teacher and I would say for a little over a year. i was just watching the best of the best movies and read the back and saw that the start does both tkd and hapkido. Maybe if soem one did tkd hapkido and bjj they would have one heck of a full rounded training.

So why did you quit training with your first instructor?


SCS

Hapkido, is my favorite of the two, but I study Tae Kwon Do too. Unlike many people I study them both at the same dojang. So I use both with equal skill, wich probably isn't saying much. Simply put, Hapkido Rocks! It is an art by itself, not riding on the coat tails of Tae Kwon Do. It is more fluid and applicable than Tae Kwon Do. Wich is the major difference in the two Korean arts. Tae Kwon Do has the kicks and punch part of self defence, but Hapkido has the in close, grappling, joint locking part. They work well together, and yet are still seperate parts of the same picture.
Thats my oppinion anyhow.

I have been involved in Hapkido for more than 25 years..It is NOT just Tae Kwon Do with joint locks.

First, of all the kicking mechanics are completely different.

Second, of all it is a combat based system not a sport!

Although there are some lineage differences and time degereration issues in many branches, essential aspects of root Hapkido can still be found.

As a general, although not perfect rule..if both styles are offered by the same instructor..look them up on Hapkido - Net to check their location in terms of lineage!! If they are not on there,,why? This is an extensive site dedicated to Hapkido only.

The taekwondo dojo I take from, our master is a 5th degree BB in hapkido, he incorporates in with TKD, but I don't think they criss cross w/ each other. To me they are two different styles. Just my opinion.

This might sound a bit odd, but I have found something quite a bit different.
What I have seen is that people just starting out in Hapkido and Aikido AND people who have been in both arts for quite a while can be very effective in their execution. Its the people who have been around just long enough to be seduced by some exotic belief system which ultimately does more to get in their way than help out.

As far as fluidity goes, the Hapkido arts whether using a weapon or not, encourage fluid movement and transition from one move to the next. Problem is that most people don't train this way. Consider this for a moment.
Picture 5 people arranged like the five on a die-- one in the middle and one at each of the cardinal directions of the compass. In turn each person attacks with a punch. The trick is that after the first person is taken down, the guy in the center must now deal with attack #2 from the LAST POSITION. This is very different from resetting to the middle position at fighting posture after each attack. It is also interesting how one deals with a subsequent attack if the previous attack was dealt with using a lock or pin rather than a projection or a throw. One needs to learn how to transition from each posture to the next technique. Just some food for thought.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

My dad is a master in Hapkido, so I grew up with hapkido being a part of me. I consider hapkido my first art, however I take Tae Kwon Do as well.

These threads are over 2 years old - and most of the respondants are not even here any more - start new threads - or at least pay attention to the audience that you are addressing - again as most are not here.