Ranks and Money

[paihequan]

This may be a loaded thread buit I am interested in hearing how many of you out there paid money for your rank testing and if so how much for the ranks received?

The reasoning is many out there will often deride others for paying for a rank even though it has been a part of many organizations.

How many of you out there have also recieved a rank from your instructor as rank for your experience, time within the arts and or service to the art or particular style? This is something sometimes seen taking place in regards to senior rank levels within various associations.

Looking forward to an open and hopefully friendly discusssion and sharing of views :)

[Bob Hubbard]

I've never paid for rank to date. In my current studies, there are fees for the Black though.

[paihequan]

Thanks Bob.

Most schools of martial arts I am aware of charge varying amounts for rank testing and I am curious to see just what is being charged and how people feel about it.

[Rich Parsons]

Those of us that were testing and those not would chip in for the cost of flying our GM for a private event, and then test us.

Now if we could we would drive somewhere much more local and then pick him up and have the training and test.

So, I guess I paid about $150 for my tests, yet that included travel and lodging and training time.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for???

[don bohrer]

paihequan,

It cost $30 each time that we test. However the hidden cost is what really gets me. I couldn't imagine the amount of blood, sweat, and tears I would have to pay. I don't mind the money so much as long as I feel I am ready to test. Now black cost $270! The jury is still out on that one.

don

[paihequan]

Rich,

Yeah this is what I looking for. Sounds like your GM's fees are quite reasonable. Given that it included travel and accommodation.

Some schools I'm aware of charge a fee for the actual grading and than extra for the certificate and belt/sash.

Lets hear from others?

[Astra]

25euro for every rank up to Dan. Certificates, etc. are in that.

[Aegis]

Our gradings are priced at between £10 and £15 (about $15-23), which is pretty reasonable seeing as how the examiner has to travel around the country to get to us for a six hour grading. We don't get certificates until dan grades (plus instructor awards) and we buy our belts from wherever we like. Or take the belt of someone else who's just passed a grading.

I am happy to pay this price, as the chances to train with someone that highly graded are very rare within our style, and it's a worthwhile experience no matter what grade you go for.

[KenpoMatt]

$20 US for every belt white through 1st black.

[theletch1]

Just started in nihon goshin about 4 months ago so I haven't tested there yet. My last school was $25 U.S. white to 1st black. There are no testing fees for black belt. Certificates and belts are included in the fee. The big money came in at first black. No actual testing fee but you had to pay $2500.00 to go to a seminat in Las Vegas to be tested. Fail your test and you had to do it all over again next year.

[Aegis]

Originally posted by theletch1
The big money came in at first black. No actual testing fee but you had to pay $2500.00 to go to a seminat in Las Vegas to be tested. Fail your test and you had to do it all over again next year.

Now THAT's a scary figure! Did many people actually go for it, or was it only the rare few with more money than sense?

[Kempojujutsu]

I tested most of my kids last night. Cost for student rank $15.00. Had one kid test for JR. Black Belt cost $25.00. Several people I know didn't pay, did these kids fail, no. I don't use the money thing for pass /fail. Use it to cover the cost of belts and to make certificates. I do make some money for testing, but nothing to quit my day job. Heck, once I changed my brown belts. Soild color brown is 1st Brown (lowest) went with a half brown half black belt for 2nd and 3rd brown. Had to get 7 or 8 belts. I gave them away to the kids that would be at that rank.
Bob :asian:

[Disco]

I can't speak for any styles other than my own, which are Korean based.

From white to red stripe = 10 rankings. Testing fee's start at $22 and progress in $5 increases. Total fee cost = $445. Black Belt test fee was $200. All this has been quite some time ago. Don't know how much the color belt fee's have gone up, but I know that the BB fee has almost doubled and they added other venues for Black Belts. One can get either just a school BB certificate, an association certificate or a Kukkiwon certification or any combination of the three. Hummm, I think I hear Jerry McGuire calling:D

[James Kovacich]

My sensei charges me $15 for my students promotions. I add on $10 to cover the belt and postage.

:asian:

[SenseiBear]

Hmmm - In my primary style it ranged from $15 (USD) for Yellow to $75 (USD) for Black. Included belt and certificate, and on the BB test a panel consisting of 7 BB's from 3 styles, ranging from 2nd to 10th dan.

-SB

[IsshinryuKarateGirl]

The money I have had to pay is only for the things like:
Certificate
Wood (for breaking)
And the belt itself

These things can't just be given out, definatly not in a school with as many students that are in my school. There are just too many students for these things to be handed out.

[stickarts]

we have a testing fees ranging between $12.00 - $29.00 from yellow belt to brown belt. Black belt testing is $65.00.
more one on one time is spent pretesting and testing the student as they advance which is why higher levels are more expensive.

[Brother John]

I've never paid for a rank, but I have compensated my instructor for having tested me.
The rank I earned by satisfying my instructors expectations.
The $$$ he earned for giving of himself.
The art is free
The rank...
blood
sweat
tears
time....
and hunks of flesh.

Your Brother
John

[paihequan]

Interesting. Most of you have shared of your experiences and the fees payable seem reasonable and around similar levels.

How then would you respond to the words that you have paid for your rank?

[tshadowchaser]

i have paid or my rank the same way Brother John said with blood sweat and tears (at times) oh I forgot i washed dishes after the last promotion because we had dinner at my instructors house afterwards
yes i paid for it i didnt buy it

[Nightingale]

ten or fifteen bucks, which covered the belt and certificate, plus a little left over for sodas (or beer) afterwards at my old school.

new school doesnt' charge at all for testing, but monthly fee is higher.

[Brother John]

Originally posted by paihequan
How then would you respond to the words that you have paid for your rank?

nuf said...
why don't you just come out and delineate what it is you are saying/getting at... it might speed the conversation along.

Your Brother
John

[Damian Mavis]

I paid $350 Canadian to test for 1st
$425 to test for 2nd
$475 to test for 3rd
$550 to test for 4th

The whole process took 13 years, both the time and money is standard in the ITF

I'm curious to know if the people that don't pay anything are all learning in some persons basement or some similar setup?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by paihequan
Interesting. Most of you have shared of your experiences and the fees payable seem reasonable and around similar levels.

How then would you respond to the words that you have paid for your rank?

The Financial cost of a black belt is a couple of bucks. Total cost of materials (belt, fancy cert, shipping) is under $10 US.

The physical/mental/etc costs and benifits can not be measured in $.

Any fool can buy a belt, sew on a few stripes and print out a cert. Or he can buy one from any of the hundreds of belt/cert mills out there. Or he can hook up with a few like minded folks and have the popular mutual promotion party where they each bump the other up a few notches.

What ever. Personally, I think those folks are scum.

I don't have a problem with schools or organizations charging reasonable amounts for tests. They have overhead and record keeping to do to help keep your ranking valid. (Note I -do- have a problem with the practice of charging you $30 for a pennys worth of electrical tape on your belt. Those schools are rip offs)

Anyone can print up a cert, make up a lineage and bury enough stuff to muddy the trail. I think the quality ranks don't require people to be private detectives to check em out.


We all pay for our ranks. The quality folks with the combination of time/sweat/support. The fools with only money.

:asian:

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis
The whole process took 13 years, both the time and money is standard in the ITF

I'm curious to know if the people that don't pay anything are all learning in some persons basement or some similar setup?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

I train under the head of the organization in the home school. From white to black is about 3-5 years, depending on your own aptitude, how often and how hard you train. I don't pay for belt tests until black, and then the rate currently is fair. (About $200 I think)

[Aegis]

Originally posted by paihequan
How then would you respond to the words that you have paid for your rank?

Everyone pays for rank. The only thing that varies is the currency. Some people pay large amounts of money and get rank for next to nothing. Others pay very little money, but put in the hours, the sweat and the pain to get to the level they can achieve. The money is just to pay someone to come and acknowledge their new rank.

In the more derrogatory sense of the phrase "paying for rank" (which I assume is the one you were intending to put across), I would say that I haven't. I paid for a good lesson from a high ranking instructor in our style. The fact that he was looking at our technique to see if we met the requirements for the next grade was completely by-the-by.

I would consider "paying for rank" to imply that the chance of failure is negligible. This is not the case in what I do. I have seen quite a large proportion of students failing gradings, usually through a poor "on the day" performance, as students are not allowed to even attempt to grade until they are up to the standard of their next grade.

As I said, I am happy to pay the cost involved in our style, and would pay it just the same if there was no chance of grading, as the opportunity to train with some of the best in our style is too good to miss.

[Nightingale]

an interesting question...

if someone fails a test where there is a testing fee, do they have to pay the fee the next time around?

at where I used to train, no. you paid once to cover the cost of your belt (and we got good quality belts) and cert, and then, if you failed (and I saw people fail) you didn't have to pay it next time around.

[Aegis]

Within my style there's different ploicies on paying to take a grading a second time. The visijting instructor takes the same amount of money for the grading, but if you failed the last time round, your club may opt to pay for you, especially if you failed through what they consider "bad luck on the day". So depending on the club you train at, you pay once or each time...

Clear as mud eh?

[theletch1]

Now THAT's a scary figure! Did many people actually go for it, or was it only the rare few with more money than sense?

Once you hit brown it was one of those "highly suggested" things. You were also "highly suggested" to go to the seminar at least once before attempting to test for black. The upside of the seminar is that the masters of the art were there to teach. Black normally took 4-5 years to reach so anyone who had trained that long had to make the decision to either pay up, stay at brown forever or simply move on to another style.

As for my response to the idea that I've paid for rank, sure I have but I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment that I paid for it not bought it.

[SenseiBear]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
an interesting question...

if someone fails a test where there is a testing fee, do they have to pay the fee the next time around?


In our school, you pay for your test. If you fail the test (and I have seen it happen), then you pay for the test next time too. The tests are lengthy, and the small fees don't come close to compensating the panel (ends up buying them dinner after the test).

And as seems to be the consensus, we all pay for our ranks with sweat, blood, pain, and years of work and dedication.

-SB

[A.R.K.]

I was never charged for testing in any of the disciplines I trained in. Monthly tuition yes, but not a testing fee.

In the same vain, I do not charge my students a testing fee. I do ask for $2 as this is what the belt costs me. I no longer charge a monthly fee personally either. They pay their money directly to my church where I teach. It goes into the new bldg fund.

:asian:

[D.Cobb]

At the school where I train, it costs $50.00 Aust. from white to purple. For brown belts up to approval for 1st Black $75.00.

But then the actual Black Belt Grading, costs $800.00+.

I don't know if it's worth it financially, but I do know I earned my 1st Dan.

--Dave

:asian:

[Seig]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
At the school where I train, it costs $50.00 Aust. from white to purple. For brown belts up to approval for 1st Black $75.00.

But then the actual Black Belt Grading, costs $800.00+.

I don't know if it's worth it financially, but I do know I earned my 1st Dan.

--Dave

:asian:
Why such a large leap?

[bdparsons]

1st Hapkido kwan:
No additional charge for testing.

2nd Hapkido kwan:
$25 each for 10 gup tests; $100 for dan test

Kenpo:
$50 per kyu test; $100 per dan test

In all the schools I've been a part of, testing fees have been one time only. If a student failed a test they were not charged to test again, although a mandantory waiting time to retest was enforced.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by bdparsons


$50 per kyu test; $100 per dan test

In all the schools I've been a part of, testing fees have been one time only. If a student failed a test they were not charged to test again, although a mandantory waiting time to retest was enforced.

Respects,
Bill Parsons

I think that would be a really fair standard to go by. Especially if the testing is done on a non-class day like it should be. I think that the Dojo should be able to put a couple of dollars in its pocket for something that is not a part of the regular classtime.

Testing every 2 months is another topic.

I've seen classes that "some" of the kids are testing during class time and the rest of the kids just watched during "their" classtime which they "paid" for.



:asian:

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Seig
Why such a large leap?

The price covers the cost of the grading, a rank specific embroidered uniform, a rather fancy framed certificate and a gold medallion/ pendant thingy.

--Dave

:asian:

[don bohrer]

$800.00+ :eek:

Oh man! I thought $275 was steep.

[redfang]

No testing fees where I train. Buying a belt when earned is optional, $5.00. I do pay regular class time when I test, as testing is conducted during individual instruction.

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by don bohrer
$800.00+ :eek:

Oh man! I thought $275 was steep.

How is this for steep?

$72.50 per Month
$110.00 per Year Membership.
total $980.00

add to this the price of personal equipment and it gets to be very steep.

And then if you are one of the lucky ones like me, and are included in the Black Belt Club, by invitation only, you only get charged membership once every 3 years.
You might think that that is a good thing, but you get charged a higher monthly fee for the privelidge(sp?), $82.50 which comes to a whopping $990.00 per year.
Plus you have to buy the Black Belt Club uniform $140.00,
I shouldn't have started this post, I didn't realise how much I was being screwed for. AAARRRGGHHH!!!! :mad:

--Dave

:mad:

[theletch1]

a rank specific embroidered uniform,

I know that when I reach shodan in aikido I'll have to buy hakama but it doesn't change from rank to rank in the dan level. Is this the type of thing you're talking about or does the entire uniform change from rank to rank?

[Cryozombie]

My instructor doesnt charge us to test...

BUT...

We dont pay to test, we pay to have our rank registered in Japan. Thats a Bujinkan thing tho, My instructor doesnt charge beyond that. Neither did my previous 'Kan instructor.

And, in response to someone saying i paid for rank... Id say "Yeah? And? "

After all, I agree that we pay for our rank, but we dont BUY it.

[satans.barber]

Our costs:

Juniors:

yellow - 3rd brown ... £15
2nd brown ... £20
1st brown ... £25
black ... £50

Seniors:

yellow - brown tip ... £15
3rd brown ... £20
2nd brown ... £25
1st brown ... £30
black ... £75

That includes belts and certificates. Black belt is actually £100 (wrote the cheque last week, ouch!) for seniors since we have to pay for petrol to get the guys here to grade us...

Ian.

[Daniel]

All over the map, my first school was 25-35 per belt then maybe 100ish for black. Then next one he jumped it up all the time, he only allowed you to test for black at weekend long camps where you paid through the nose. The next one was about 25-35 again and black was 150 as a base price but if you want things like a cert from the organization it got much more expensive quickly. I'm currently looking at a place that doesn't charge for testing at all, the monthly costs are higher so in a way it all equals out in the end.