cross ranking

[progressivetactics]

Have you any students, or have you yourself....
got to a level in 1 system, and started training in another system?
How did you handle the ranking?
Wear your highest achieved rank? Start as a white belt? Cross promote once learning specific requirements?

Just curious, as i'm sure many instructors have come across this.

[arnisador]

We've had discussions like this before, but I'm not sure just where they all are! Here are some similar ones:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1650
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=752
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4232

When I started JKD and BJJ last year, I didn't even ask--I just expected that I'd wear my white belt. In fact, we change belts for the back-to-back classes, wearing the in-school JKD belts then the approrpiate BJJ belts.

Once I studied kung fu with an instructor who taught Modern Arnis after it (Saturdays only). Same deal--I never asked. I just wore my orange sash (or whatever) for kung fu and my black belt for arnis.

I wouldn't think of walking into another instructor's school as a student and wearing anything other than a white belt. If it was a Modern Arnis school, of any organization, I'd expect to be able to wear a black belt since I was promoted to black belt by the Founder. Otherwise, I wear white (and of course inform the instructor that I have previous training). If the instructor were to ask that I wear something else, I'd respect his wishes but frankly would be uncomfortable in most cases.

I can see the logic of taking someone with experience and making them say a green belt--I know the JKD students are sometimes surprised, when we do kali stuff, about my level of skill--but I'd rather start at the start and move up at the pace the instructor allows.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Well, as for myself, I just made first dan BLACK in Taekwondo last year, but now my goal is to do the same in Shotokan Karate.

Since TKD has some of its roots in Shotokan, I'm going for it. Also, starting over in Shotokan as a white belt is what I expected since I don't know any Karate-do, and I'm not familiar with that MA's customs, or for that matter Okinawan or Japanese customs. Hey, I'm just barely getting to know Korean customs!! :o

I must be American huh? ;)

[Nightingale]

I made green belt in TKD.
The highest kenpo rank I hold is brown.

If I should ever compete in a TKD only tournament, or train in a TKD school again, I would wear green, since that is my highest TKD rank.

when I compete in kenpo only tournaments, I wear my brown belt, because that is my highest kenpo rank.

when I compete in open tournaments, I wear my brown belt (kenpo) because it is my highest overall rank.

[MJS]

3rd Black in Kenpo. However, when I'm training in Arnis and BJJ, I dont wear the Kenpo BB. Like it was said, if I walked into another Kenpo school, then yes, I'd wear the same belt that I have. If I started training in TKD, then of course, I'd want to start with white.

Mike

[stickarts]

When i was green belt in one art, i started cross training in another art.
After reaching blackbelt in the 1st art, i added a 3rd art!
this works fine if you get a base in one art 1st, have a good memory, and train all of the time! teaching a lot helps you to remember it too.
Each art in my school has a separate curriculum, however, you do learn a bit of each since each curriculum has some cross over.
Each person has to find the right balance of learning enough new stuff to keep interested and growing, but not spread so thin that you're not good at any of it!

[stickarts]

ps. if i am training elsewhere, i prefer not even wearing a belt if i can get away with it!

[tshadowchaser]

I'm of the same mind as the others. I have always put on a white belt and placed myslef in the lowest ranking spot in a new class. It's a new area of study and I refuse to let my previous rank in any other system have any bearing.
I have been asked once to stand with the black belts but felt uncomortible there because I did not know the system or what to do. I requested that if I had to place myself there I be allowed not to wear rank till I earned it.

[progressivetactics]

good answers! Everyone is on the same page, pretty much.

I Have many part timers from other systems who want to try my club, for a week, month, etc. I always request they wear the highest rank they have achieved, no matter where it was from. We respect rank, regardless of style, and don't critize for not knowing our curriculum.
I myself, will consider myself white belt, until completed proper training, time, and ability to move on.

THERE IS NO SHAME IN A WHITE BELT!!!
Besides, you can get away with alot more if you wear white!!
lol.

bb

[Astra]

I don't wear anything :)

In my first art Judo, I was never formally tested, so OFFICIALLY (not practically) I'm a white belt, and since I left Judo I have no desire to do tests for a piece of cloth.

And my Wing Chun school doesn't have belts :)

I wouldn't even dream of stepping into a say, BJJ school and expect to wear a belt that compares to my Wing Chun level, that's just silly - start from white belt :)

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by progressivetactics
Have you any students, or have you yourself....

Yes, I have.



How did you handle the ranking?Wear your highest achieved rank? Start as a white belt? Cross promote once learning specific requirements?

From the first day I stepped into the kenpo studio I put on a white belt. Neither myself nor the instructor cared one bit. However I advanced at a much faster pace than everyone else.

[Galvatron]

I'm a 2nd dan in Tang Soo Do, so I have the obligatory belt with my name embroidered on it and 2 stripes, but I frequently work out in a WTF Taekwondo school though that's owned by an old friend of the family. I have a spare belt I wear there with nothing on it, just solid black.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by arnisador
We've had discussions like this before, but I'm not sure just where they all are! Here are some similar ones:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1650
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=752
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4232

When I started JKD and BJJ last year, I didn't even ask--I just expected that I'd wear my white belt. In fact, we change belts for the back-to-back classes, wearing the in-school JKD belts then the approrpiate BJJ belts.

Once I studied kung fu with an instructor who taught Modern Arnis after it (Saturdays only). Same deal--I never asked. I just wore my orange sash (or whatever) for kung fu and my black belt for arnis.

I wouldn't think of walking into another instructor's school as a student and wearing anything other than a white belt. If it was a Modern Arnis school, of any organization, I'd expect to be able to wear a black belt since I was promoted to black belt by the Founder. Otherwise, I wear white (and of course inform the instructor that I have previous training). If the instructor were to ask that I wear something else, I'd respect his wishes but frankly would be uncomfortable in most cases.

I can see the logic of taking someone with experience and making them say a green belt--I know the JKD students are sometimes surprised, when we do kali stuff, about my level of skill--but I'd rather start at the start and move up at the pace the instructor allows.

I've put a white belt on time and time again and in several arts, so it is a very long road. When I trained under my brother-in-law we changed belts for each class which in theory made sense.

When he added an Aikido class he gave us a choice if we wanted to where our belts or not. Most evryone put on a whitebelt except 2 of us. A Shodan wore his Black and I wore my Brown. I guess we were thinking like students but we were already learning Karate, Judo/Jujutsu, Kobujutsu and then starting Aikido.

My point is at higher level it is easier to put on that white belt but in the Kyu's its not as easy. So when a new student comes to me with experience that is obvious I give them a green belt which is a 5th Kyu but they don't get the certificate until it is earned. The only acception is I gave one student a Brown because he was already a well trained Thai fighter and I already trained him for about 10 months. But I have not yet given him his San Kyu certificate because I have a curriculum which dictates what exactly I expect from each of them.

:asian:

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by progressivetactics
good answers! Everyone is on the same page, pretty much.

I Have many part timers from other systems who want to try my club, for a week, month, etc. I always request they wear the highest rank they have achieved, no matter where it was from. We respect rank, regardless of style, and don't critize for not knowing our curriculum.
I myself, will consider myself white belt, until completed proper training, time, and ability to move on.

THERE IS NO SHAME IN A WHITE BELT!!!
Besides, you can get away with alot more if you wear white!!
lol.

bb

I have a cross rank from Hanshi Lou Angel and the National College of Martial Arts. I was promoted to 5th Dan from Hanshis former student and I am also a student of Hanshis in Goju Kai. Soon I will test in Goju but for now he backs myself and my school.

:asian:

[OULobo]

When I start a new art, I never even mention rank in a first art. It may bias opinions and taint the learning process ("Oh, don't mind him, he's an FMA guy.").

I almost never wear rank at all. I know some of my instructors hate this, but they accept it as part of my philosphy on martial arts. My thoughts are that if new students can't tell that I am of higher rank by my abilities, then I really don't deserve the rank anyway. The only time I run into problems are when a new student needs to ask a question and doesn't realize I may be able to help or when a lower rank wants to instruct me. In the latter case, I just let the lower rank teach and keep his mistake to myself. Sometimes I learn more that way. The only time I wear rank is at formal events.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by OULobo
When I start a new art, I never even mention rank in a first art. It may bias opinions and taint the learning process ("Oh, don't mind him, he's an FMA guy.").

I almost never wear rank at all. I know some of my instructors hate this, but they accept it as part of my philosphy on martial arts. My thoughts are that if new students can't tell that I am of higher rank by my abilities, then I really don't deserve the rank anyway.

I agree with that!

:asian:

[arnisador]

Originally posted by OULobo
when a lower rank wants to instruct me. In the latter case, I just let the lower rank teach and keep his mistake to myself. Sometimes I learn more that way.

Absolutely. I learn a lot by shutting up and letting other people talk. Even if they know less than me they may know something different than I do.

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by OULobo
When I start a new art, I never even mention rank in a first art. It may bias opinions and taint the learning process ("Oh, don't mind him, he's an FMA guy.").


So OULobo, what do you do when you go looking for a new school that teaches a style that's is different from the style where you earned your highest rank. Inevitably the master instructor will ask you if you've ever trained in any martial art. What do you say?

Do you tell them I reached X color belt rank, or I'm an X dan BLACK in such and such art, or do you avoid the question or lie?

I've seen BLACK belts in styles different from my art come into my dojang and train with us and they just wear a WHITE belt. When we start doing drills and the like, these BLACKs from other arts just rise to the top. Even though they weren't trained in my art, just by watching them one can tell that they are well experienced martial artists. I think it's just the way they behave and carry themselves with confidence. Most novice white belts act like they have 2 left feet, however, if you've trained in any MA for a good while you usually don't come across as a newby IMHO... :asian:

[OULobo]

Originally posted by cali_tkdbruin
So OULobo, what do you do when you go looking for a new school that teaches a style that's is different from the style where you earned your highest rank. Inevitably the master instructor will ask you if you've ever trained in any martial art. What do you say?

Do you tell them I reached X color belt rank, or I'm an X dan BLACK in such and such art, or do you avoid the question or lie?

I've seen BLACK belts in styles different from my art come into my dojang and train with us and they just wear a WHITE belt. When we start doing drills and the like, these BLACKs from other arts just rise to the top. Even though they weren't trained in my art, just by watching them one can tell that they are well experienced martial artists. I think it's just the way they behave and carry themselves with confidence. Most novice white belts act like they have 2 left feet, however, if you've trained in any MA for a good while you usually don't come across as a newby IMHO... :asian:

I do try to avoid the question. Usually I just say I have trained a little. Most instructors don't push the subject. I try my best to not flat out lie.

Usually it is an exercise of will to not use techniques I know from other systems, but that are not common or just not taught to me yet in the new system. I will say that, in time, as I have progressed in the new system it seems to become obvious to others that I am trained in someway. About this time I come clean if asked, as it is past the initial bias. I have never had an instructor mad at or distrustful of me for this policy.

[progressivetactics]

sounds dis-respectful, and dis-honest.

[OULobo]

Originally posted by progressivetactics

sounds dis-respectful, and dis-honest.

I'm sorry you feel that way, as I see my experiences are my own to share. Instructors always have the ability to ask for further info on my experience and the right to refuse tutalage.


Originally posted by OULobo

I have never had an instructor mad at or distrustful of me for this policy.

[arnisador]

I always tell them but I don't emphasize it.

[progressivetactics]

We have a right to differ on methodologies, so no big deal...but iin my mind, I would be upset if I asked you if you had training, and you avoided my question, intentionally holding back information to pose as a beginner, instead of coming forth-right and saying...."i am ranked in "X" but want to learn this art. I would like to start as a beginner and not step on toes by wearing a belt different then any other beginner." Just my thought.

Any time I avoid a question, or intensionally hide truth....I am being dishonest, and dis respectful.
Again, just my personal opinion in life. Doesn't mean it works for everyone.

[twinkletoes]

these days i try to pretty much avoid rank altogether.

back when I was training in a lot of different things, I always wore white belts, if any belt at all, when starting a new style. I had some instructors who thought that was a little weird, but then again, what else was I going to do?

nowadays the only times I wear belts are when I have to:

kenpo BB when teaching kenpo (I'm not the head instructor, so it's not my rule...)

arnis BB if I'm asked to (formal testing, etc.)

BJJ blue belt to hold my gi closed.

anything else is no belt, or if I have to wear one, white belt.

The only exception was one instructor who insisted that I wear the highest rank I had earned. His thing was that he was teaching concepts, not specific technique, and that he would rank the other students in TKD since he also taught that. But we were studying other material with him, so he just wanted us to wear whatever our base style had ranked us as.

~TT

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by progressivetactics


coming forth-right and saying...."i am ranked in "X" but want to learn this art. I would like to start as a beginner and not step on toes by wearing a belt different then any other beginner." Just my thought.



I like and respect this approach to the previous MA experience question... :asian:

If pressed for my MA background, I'll be honest, but I wouldn't be boastful about it. I would expect, or ask to start at the bottom rung of the ladder as a WHITE belt along with the rest of the beginners in that particular style.

[tshadowchaser]

I'll completly agree with that . It is the only way to LEARN

[progressivetactics]

glad others see it my way as well!

I have never been boastful of rank, but felt it was my duty to advise of history, to help my future instructor better know where to work me, and trust in his/her direction.

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by progressivetactics
glad others see it my way as well!

I have never been boastful of rank, but felt it was my duty to advise of history, to help my future instructor better know where to work me, and trust in his/her direction.

Thats a good point. At todays high dollar rates its almost a waste to train a slower pace if you can handle more. You've earned your abilities its smart to use them to the fullest.

Thats not to say that the instructor should be obligated to teach you more though. We are all differant and some, like some I've trained under and one I'm related to, will not give you anymore than they give anyone else. In that case I say move on.

I don't hold anything back to any student at any time. I know what I expect them to learn and how to get them there. Thats a part of teaching. To be able to teach a student to be better than myself. That is my job.

Its to easy to teach everyone the same, collect a monthly check, have a promotion every two months....



:asian:

[progressivetactics]

and we all know there is alot of them out there that have chose that way, isn't there!!!

[A.R.K.]

We've been very fortunate to have BB's in other disciplines come to us for training. I ask them to wear the rank [BB] they have obtained in their other discipline. They will remain at this level till they have met our discipline requirements for advancement beyond their current. I just feel it is a courtesy I wish to extend to them.

I would not expect the reciprical however if I went to someone else to receive their training. I would have no problem wearing white again.

:asian:

[Nightingale]

I switched organizations within kenpo. my new school has different requirements (more techniques and forms, done slightly differently).

my instructor said I could keep the brown belt.

I felt uncomfortable with it and decided I wanted to wear white. However, I didn't have a white belt, so I waited til I tested for yellow, and they gave me my yellow belt, so I put it on and have been wearing it ever since.... and if my life would calm down a bit so I can get into class more often, I'd be able to learn the stuff I need for orange. lol.