Excellent Video

[Stealthy]

Here is a youtube channel which I am sure all Ninjutsu practitioners will find informative.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kazeutabudokai#p/u/3/_mEoTZCT5-U


With Respect,
Stealthy.

[jks9199]

How do you feel that these are connected to ninjutsu?

[Stealthy]

How do you feel that these are connected to ninjutsu?


Does your school not cover any throws or limb controls?


edited: Apologies for the blow off, force of habit on internet forums. I see now the error of my ways as I'm sure you are a respected member of the community with a genuine invitation for me to express my feelings.


Far out, talk about a virtually open ended question. Where to even begin, you could write an essay on something like that?

[tenzen]

Did I miss something here? That's judo man and some aikido. That's not ninjutsu. The throws of ninjutsu differ from judo greatly. There is too much bending of the spine there and not enough movement of the whole body as one.

What was the point of that post?

[Whitebelt]

I think this is a useful source for anyone in martial arts, even a boxer might appreciate these videos if they have a broad enough interest

[Stealthy]

Did I miss something here? That's judo man and some aikido. That's not ninjutsu. The throws of ninjutsu differ from judo greatly. There is too much bending of the spine there and not enough movement of the whole body as one.

What was the point of that post?

Way to miss the point. As mentioned above good skills are good skills whoever is expressing them.

If it was your point to highlight differences then how on earth did you miss the different names for techniques and principles?

Or perhaps you were just being argumentative. In which case, if it's all the same to you, I'll keep my sparring in the dojo, so if you want to spar bring your mitts and lets have some fun otherwise join a debating team.

[Stealthy]

I think this is a useful source for anyone in martial arts, even a boxer might appreciate these videos if they have a broad enough interest

On the topic of Boxers this is a link for their basic footwork.

Extremely basic footwork when compared with Ninjutsu.

http://www.youtube.com/user/NextTime4U#p/u/3/xiY135uGo24

[Bester]

Probably should be moved to Jujutsu / Judo as it's judo not ninjutsu videos. There's also a section for boxing videos if you are interested in that.

[Brian R. VanCise]

Why did you post this in the Ninjutsu section? :shrug:

[Stealthy]

What am I, your babysitter?

If you can't find of a single useful piece of information then delete the whole thread for all I care.

If the complaints are from the profound lack of Ninjutsu related insights then keep on complaining maybe that will encourage me to share.

If you did Ninjutsu you would not need to ask these silly questions because one look at the boxers footwork and you would start plotting a way to shift into Hicho no-kamae to exploit the limitations of their footwork.

Or any one of the myriad of other options available to overcome them, all while respecting the {insert random martial art/ist here} ability and trying to lift your standards to that level.

With Respect,
Stealthy.

[Bob Hubbard]

Considering that the people asking why this is here -are- actively training in Ninjutsu, or have in the past, and that this thread seems to be saying "heres some Judo videos you ninjas should check out", I'm leaning towards agreeing with them.

So, no, you are not our babysitter. However 1 moderator, 1 former moderator and now 1 administrator are asking: "Whats the point?".

[tenzen]

Stealthy you seem very confrontational here. I was merely asking why did you post this here in the ninjutsu thread its got nothing to do with ninjutsu. Its almost condescending. Like your trying to tell us that those might be better for us. If we wanted judo I'm sure that's where we would be.

Geographically I'm sure we are nowhere near each other but I would be more than happy to spar with you if we were. I got nothing better to do than engage in a good sparring session. I'm located in fayetteville nc. If you are near by all means let's touch gloves.

Moderators please move this thread to its appropriate section.

[Stealthy]

"heres some Judo videos you ninjas should check out"
"Whats the point?".

I don't understand the need for a point beyond "here's a few videos recently posted on youtube which ninja students would get a lot out of".

Technically since Ninjutsu is a way of life I could show videos of me playing volley ball at the beach and point out how it is an "expression" of my Ninjutsu way of life.

The number of ways links like this are related to ninjutsu "practitioners" (not necessarily Ninjutsu) is limited only by the capacity of the practitioner to extract valuable information.

On the most basic level there is value in just knowing your enemy but more than that the original link contained finer points of grappling which at least when my instructors teach it are included.

So to assume it is of no relevance to Ninjutsu practitioners just because the person making the video is not a ninjutsu instructor is really quite bizarre and not just slightly disrespectful for both the Ninjutsu community and the school showcased in the link.

If this forum is not for communicating with fellow Ninjutsu practitioners about ALL things related to Ninjutsu then what is it for?

In the interests of keeping the peace I INVITE you to delete the post.

With Respect,
Stealthy.

[Tez3]

Sitting drinking wine waiting for a certain other Australian Ninjutsu practitioner to arrive :)

[Bob Hubbard]

I don't understand the need for a point beyond "here's a few videos recently posted on youtube which ninja students would get a lot out of".

Technically since Ninjutsu is a way of life I could show videos of me playing volley ball at the beach and point out how it is an "expression" of my Ninjutsu way of life.

The number of ways links like this are related to ninjutsu "practitioners" (not necessarily Ninjutsu) is limited only by the capacity of the practitioner to extract valuable information.

On the most basic level there is value in just knowing your enemy but more than that the original link contained finer points of grappling which at least when my instructors teach it are included.

So to assume it is of no relevance to Ninjutsu practitioners just because the person making the video is not a ninjutsu instructor is really quite bizarre and not just slightly disrespectful for both the Ninjutsu community and the school showcased in the link.

If this forum is not for communicating with fellow Ninjutsu practitioners about ALL things related to Ninjutsu then what is it for?

In the interests of keeping the peace I INVITE you to delete the post.

With Respect,
Stealthy.
Of course the forum is for "communicating with fellow Ninjutsu practitioners about ALL things related to Ninjutsu" however, we do have it sub divided for better organization, hence while many ninjutsu practitioners may consider behind the scenes politicin to be part of their art, we funnel that discussion to a separate section. I would also thin that ninjutsu practitioners interested in judo information would look under the judo heading, but that's just me.

[Stealthy]

I would also think that ninjutsu practitioners interested in judo information would look under the judo heading, but that's just me.

I can totally relate to that thinking though I have not bothered to look in the Judo section as I'm not really all that interested in what the Judoka have to say about the clip, I am more interested in discussing it with Ninjutsu practitioners.

Provided or course it is a pleasant conversation which thus far this one has not been.

If you think the in-fighting and politics within ninjutsu is pathetic than no doubt you would also regard jumping all over someone for linking an informative video with many potential topics of conversation equally so.

I have deduced the preferred method of opening the floor for these sorts of discussions would have been to post the link in the Judo section but then create another link here suggesting Ninjutsu practitioners wanting to hold themselves to a higher standard and ever looking for ways to do that check out the video.

I would certainly hope that approach would be met with a better response. If so perhaps you could put that in the FAQ because I don't recall reading it there.

With Respect,
Stealthy.

[Bob Hubbard]

Let me try to be clear here.

This area is for discussion of ninjutsu.
Your clips are not ninjutsu, and don't apply as far as we can see anymore than links to boat making would.
Therefore they do not belong here.
Such information IS in the site rules and faq.

[Stealthy]

The clips are not ninjutsu, and don't apply as far as we can see anymore than links to boat making would.
Therefore they do not belong here.


So I take that as a "Yes, the correct course of action is to post the video link in the appropriate section and then a link to that section from the Ninjutsu section if you specifically want to discuss it with Ninjutsu practitioners."

Thank you for clearing that up.

[jks9199]

Note that the Rules (http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71377) state:

General Rules:
· No Flame Wars. Keep it civil, please.
· Keep the language civil. No profanity.
· Please post to the correct forum, for a reason and on topic. Do not cross post to multiple forums.
· Be respectful of the other arts, and your fellow members.
· No Advertising except in the advertising forums
· If you have a problem with another member, contact a moderator to handle it.
· Take the time to explore the Help, FAQ and User CP.
Note especially the part I bolded and underlined. If you want to compare and contrast these Judo throws (or the Systema exercise in another video on that link) with ninjutsu/budo taijutsu throws, then start that discussion. "Look at this video; it's some great judo throws -- but how do they compare with ninjutsu throws? Why do we do this throw differently?"

Otherwise, if you just think it's a good video -- take a second, look around, and post it in the right place.

[MJS]

Just another outsider looking in here....I'll admit, when I first saw the title of the thread and the clip, I was initially wondering why it was posted here, as no, it had nothing to do with any of the Kans. But, after more thought, I'm guessing that because people feel that a) there is no ground fighting/grappling in any Kan or b) that there is, but it'd be beneficial to view a grappling based art, and perhaps add some tools from Judo to Ninjutsu.

This may simply be a misunderstanding, but again, I can see where the confusion lies. So, if its b, in an effort to prevent this thread from turning into a crap fest and me and the other mods getting headaches, lets not turn this into a Ninjutsu sux thread, but instead perhaps make a comparison to the grappling that we see in the clip, vs the grappling that we see in a Ninjutsu clip.

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think it is safe to say we can move this thread to the Judo section! http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

[K-man]

Perhaps I could ask Stealthy, why do YOU think this is an excellent video. I confess, I have scant knowledge of Ninjustsu but I believe I have a sound working knowledge of the softness of Aikido as expressed in the video clip. Without feeling the movements for myself, I can't tell if Uke is really being moved or just going along for the ride. ( I suspect the later because the foot movements don't support the former.)

I watched two of the other clips, including the Systema one, as I have attended a couple of Systema seminars and a few classes and have numerous DVDs. Once again he has a compliant partner and what is shown is typical of the normal systema training that I have observed. Nothing more.

I must confess, none of the clips I watched made me want to rush out and try what he was showing. There were certain principles of softness demonstrated that I know are valid, but there were also a lot of moves shown that I wonder if they would work if used on a less compliant partner.

Normally, if I wanted to work on Aikido techniques I would pick an Aikido video. Same for Systema, same for Ninjutsu. Here we have a guy with fingers in many pies but like the others I can't see a lot of relevance to Ninjustsu.

In the interests of discussion, what works for you in this video? (And, just so I don't sit through it for a third time, where in the clip do I find what you are talking about?) :asian:

[Stealthy]

Perhaps I could ask Stealthy, why do YOU think this is an excellent video. I confess, I have scant knowledge of Ninjustsu but I believe I have a sound working knowledge of the softness of Aikido as expressed in the video clip. Without feeling the movements for myself, I can't tell if Uke is really being moved or just going along for the ride. ( I suspect the later because the foot movements don't support the former.)

I watched two of the other clips, including the Systema one, as I have attended a couple of Systema seminars and a few classes and have numerous DVDs. Once again he has a compliant partner and what is shown is typical of the normal systema training that I have observed. Nothing more.

I must confess, none of the clips I watched made me want to rush out and try what he was showing. There were certain principles of softness demonstrated that I know are valid, but there were also a lot of moves shown that I wonder if they would work if used on a less compliant partner.

Normally, if I wanted to work on Aikido techniques I would pick an Aikido video. Same for Systema, same for Ninjutsu. Here we have a guy with fingers in many pies but like the others I can't see a lot of relevance to Ninjustsu.

In the interests of discussion, what works for you in this video? (And, just so I don't sit through it for a third time, where in the clip do I find what you are talking about?) :asian:

It is ALL relevant because it is not Judo techniques but energy transmition basics, not just applicable to grappling but striking as well.

If the opponent shifts their weight onto one leg thereby cutting off the alternate flank you would "encourage the flank" thereby using the propensity for momentum in a given direction against them while also delivering strikes which facilitate their movement, then when they attempt to correct the mis-direction they can be flanked again in the opposite direction causing them to grossly over flank.

If the opponent drops low to strike, then strike down onto them to help them on their way and likewise as they step forward and raise their bodyweight you could strike up into the neck with a web hand....all very basic Ninjutsu tactics and techniques.

In fact the basics can be employed even before the opponent has breached tactical distance since short of meeting someone who can fly the weighted foot at tactical distance is not the foot they will be stepping in with.

Tactical distance can only be breached by stepping/lunging with the left or right foot or in Ninjutsu with a roll. Therefore knowing which foot they will place inside weapon range allows you to encourage their off centre motion.

If anyone still doesn't get it, try standing in a right Hicho no-kamae(which is left foot on the ground) and flanking left....if you can do it, I'll give you a prize.

If you want to get really specific 12:40 is a finer point useful for OMOTE/URA KOTE GYAKU DORI which I defy any Ninjutsu practitioner to claim is worthless.

So to re-cap the video is not about Judo, it was made by Judoka but it is about the Basics of using an opponents propensities for motion against them.

Now if you can find a High Definition video covering these Basics made by a Ninjutsu instructor then by all means post it but otherwise the link above retains its value irrespective of who made it.

I've answered your question out of courtesy for your manners when asking but with all due respect the heroes here are wasting my time.

[Chris Parker]

Stealthy, perhaps it would have been better to put these in the General section? They are not Ninjutsu related other than you seeing some connection based on your personal take and understanding of the art, such things will not be apparent to anyone else, so getting upset and lashing out when others ask what on earth the connection is is rather pointless. Make sense?

When it comes to the videos in question, I can see what you're getting at, but really, these are only relevant to Ninjutsu if you want them to be. There are far too many differences for them to be straight transferances from one art to another. To give you an idea, my personal instructor was really into throws and ground work. To that end, he cross trained in Judo, BJJ, and a few other things, and encouraged myself and other seniors to do the same. But each time he would bring something from, say, Judo, it would always need to be modified to make it "Ninjutsu", bringing it into line with our mechanics and tactics. Most typically, what was brought in were training drills, rather than mechanics anyway, as we have enough throws as it is. My chief instructor, on the other hand, doesn't really like throws, he prefers striking aspects. There are a range of reasons for that, not really important here, but the point is that he would look at the Judo videos and say "Yeah, interesting, not really what we do though", whereas my personal instructor would look at them and say "what can I rip out of this for our benefit?"

Oh, and flanking to the left from a right Hicho? Easy. What's my prize?

[Stealthy]

Oh, and flanking to the left from a right Hicho? Easy. What's my prize?

You don't count, I said "short of finding somebody that can fly"...of course you can do it.

[Tez3]

You don't count, I said "short of finding somebody that can fly"...of course you can do it.


Sarcasm or OTT flattery, do tell!

[Chris Parker]

All I'll say is that I know who Stealthy is, so I'm edging towards the latter.

[jks9199]

Admin Note:

Thread moved to Jujutsu/Judo forum as being a more appropriate place.

jks9199
Super Moderator

[Grasshopper22]

Wow that's impressive!

[K-man]

Wow that's impressive!
Grasshopper, you seem to be hopping from thread to thread leaving cryptic comments. Can I ask what you found impressive? Was it Stealthy's inappropriate post or Chris' amazing ability to fly? :idunno:

[Tanaka]

Grasshopper, you seem to be hopping from thread to thread leaving cryptic comments. Can I ask what you found impressive? Was it Stealthy's inappropriate post or Chris' amazing ability to fly? :idunno:

My guess is that he is very young.