Another Rape story...what is this world coming too!?!?

[Cruentus]

I watched something on T.V. late night a few nights ago, Discovery or Learning Channel, I think.

It was about a Serial Killer/Rapist who targeted young girls between 12-15 years old.

If this isn't horrable enough already, the preditor had a perscription for Viagra. The one girl who got away (which led to his capture) gave an account of (while she was bound to the bed) him being all juiced up on viagra and raping her repeatedly, all night long.

This gave me the chills. Just f**king lovely. Not only do women have to worry about being raped once, but they have to worry about sexual enhancing drugs that will allow the nightmare to never end.

The world sometimes only seems to get worse. God I hope that women nowadays only get more careful then ever before.

I had to punch a few things after I heard of this. :flammad: :mad: :angry:

[IsshinryuKarateGirl]

This problem is a very horrible one indeed. I myself being a female teen do hear of girls my age or even younger being raped and it sickens me. I seriously am outraged at how people could ever think of doing such a thing. I myself started in the MA's because of a few reasons, this being one of them. I am appaled at how many of these types of horrible people are out there and ama also outraged at how there are more of these people everyday. Instead of wasting our tax money on new leisure activities, can't the government put that money on security or trying to get those horrible people off the streets?? (But of course I am on a government-hating spree right now, so don't really mind that little bit much.) I am just hoping that more females get involed in the MA's and will teach these @$$holes a lesson!
:soapbox: :angry: :btg:

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by IsshinryuKarateGirl
Instead of wasting our tax money on new leisure activities, can't the government put that money on security or trying to get those horrible people off the streets?? (But of course I am on a government-hating spree right now, so don't really mind that little bit much.) I am just hoping that more females get involed in the MA's and will teach these @$$holes a lesson!
:soapbox: :angry: :btg:

Unfortunately, the government can't do anything until a person is caught. Then there's the police mishandling, the court system being lenient, and prison overcrowding... Crime is a huge issue that can't be addressed easily.

It's important that everyone learn to protect themselves and stop hoping that it won't happen to them. But, you not only have to learn physical techniques, you have to learn the mental aspect of prevention as well (most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows).

By the way, here are some scary statistics:
(US Dept of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Characteristics of Crimes Against Juveniles, June 2000)

- Juveniles (17 and under) make up 71% of all sex crime victims known to police
- Children under the age of 12 make up at least 1/2 of kidnapping and forcible sex offenses,
- 85% of all sex offenses against a juvenile are perpetrated by family or an acquaintance (family more predominant in victims under 5 and acquaintance in victims over 5),
- 35% of all sex offenses against a juvenile are perpetrated by a *juvenile*.

So while the act described by the OP is vile, it is not the norm. How do you protect families against their own members? What can you do if a juvenile rapes another?

WhiteBirch

[IsshinryuKarateGirl]

Originally posted by lvwhitebir
Unfortunately, the government can't do anything until a person is caught. Then there's the police mishandling, the court system being lenient, and prison overcrowding... Crime is a huge issue that can't be addressed easily.
WhiteBirch

Yes, I know that nothing can be done to these people until they are caught. But what I am trying to point out is, why can't the police force get up and track down these people? I know it's hard, but it's been done before. It's just a matter of actually having them do it and the funding. It's just that the government is all lazy and I could go into a million year rant about it and bore you all to death, but I'll save it for another day. I just don't like a few of the people in the government system right now....

[theletch1]

Far too often even if caught and brought to trial perpetrators of these crimes are let off with little or no time in prison. And in the case of a juvenile it's often just a little time in a JD home. More and more each day our society becomes more concerned with the rights of the criminal and less about the victim. I could go on for an hour on this but I'll stop here and gather my thoughts and post a more coherent post later.

Having 4 daughters, these statistics scare the hell out of me.:mad:

[OULobo]

Even in today's cynical society, rapists are considered on the same level as serial killers and child molesters; not very likely to get out of prison alive.

I have noticed that since the introduction of Viagra to the public, most sexual deviants that are caught in police stings end up being in posession of the little blue pill. I wonder if it is because most sexually disturbed people are often sexually disfunctional. It used to be an irony and mixed blessing that sexual predators were cursed in that they couldn't get it up, now the wonders of modern science and chemistry have changed that.

[LadyDragon]

The worste part about some of whats going on out on the streets is that whether we can see it or not, it affects us.

I have small children in my family, if I was to find out that some one hurt them in any way, whether it be by a family member or not, I would be inclined to want to beat the living day lights out of whom ever that person was.

Granted if I were put in the same situation, I would fight with all my strength and all my knowledge to try and get out of the situation. But I know that this isn't the case especially with pedefiles.

The main reason why some one attacks another person, especially in rapes is because they know or feel that they can over power that person, whether it be mentally (which is what happens with some children) or physically. You'll never see it coming until after they've made their first move. And whats more is that they're already jacked up and ready to commit to whatever act it is that they have in their mind. Whom ever the victim is, is usually unsuspecting of the perpetrators action and/or intentions.

[KenpoMatt]

I realize that rape is generally considered a crime of power. But, some of these sick a$$holes do it for the sex.

Our social climate now ENCOURAGES the sexual idolization of very young girls - 13, 14, 15 years old. How many times have you walked through the mall and seen a 13 year old wearing skin tight jeans off her hips and a thong hanging out the back of her pants? How did we ever get to a point where society condones the sexual glorificaton of young girls? The internet porn industry caters to these freaks.

[DISCLAIMER: I am not in any way, shape or form trying laying blame on victim. So, I don't want to hear it. I am simply pointing out how lax and irreverent we have become in the protection of American children, especially young girls.]

An F'ed Up Story...
One of my co-workers, a nice, professional, "family" man was recently arrested. He had been preying on young girls in internet chat rooms. Fortunatley, an FBI agent stumbled across him in one of these chat rooms. The agent posed as a woman willing to offer up her 7 year old and 11 year old daughters for sex. He quickly accepted the offer and flew to Wyoming for the encounter. He was greeted at the airport by an FBI arrest team.

I wonder how many young girls he had molested before he was arrested.

Oh, just for the record - this filthy pig was also a trained boxer.

[Michelle]

I have a very close friend who grew up in the Philippines. Interestingly, he told me one day, that as part of the physical ed curriculumn where he went to school for both junior high and high school, it was mandatory for all students to take at LEAST two semesters of Escrima. I thought that was one of the most brilliant things I had ever heard. I wonder why it is that we don't institute something similar in our schools, most especially for the young girls. I'm not saying a form of arnis per se, but at least *some* category of self defense. And get them started young...

If I ever end up having a daughter someday you can bet I would rather have her spending her PE hour doing something that might help her avoid being violated someday than playing softball... or tennis. I'll sign her up after school for a MA for sure, but it would be nice to get the school systems involved like they do in parts of Visaya and Mindanao. I wonder why we in the states have not done that yet........we certainly have the climate of violence to warrant it.

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Michelle
I have a very close friend who grew up in the Philippines. Interestingly, he told me one day, that as part of the physical ed curriculumn where he went to school for both junior high and high school, it was mandatory for all students to take at LEAST two semesters of Escrima.

Thanks to Remy Presas, founder of Modern Arnis.

Yes, I teach my kids self-defense for reasons you mention.

[arnisador]

Originally posted by KenpoMatt
Our social climate now ENCOURAGES the sexual idolization of very young girls - 13, 14, 15 years old.

Yes, I agree, sadly.

Of course, Japanese popular culture actually idealizes rape itself. Here's a recent news story:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/02/world/main571280.shtml

[KenpoMatt]

good points Michelle. I've often wondered why american PE classes are so weak. I had a friend from South Africa. She told me about their PE classes which included outdoor survival skills training.

That is a realistic and useful skill. What are the chances a student would have to employ those skills? Hopefully, they are slim. But, the same can be said about training in the MA's. We train hard and pray that we'll never have to use them.

[Touch Of Death]

What do you mean "what is the world coming too?"? Women have been getting raped for thousands of years and it is only now that they have voice to sqwack about it. The inquisition was not only about religeous persecution, it was a 500 year long rape fest. The Catholic church has only recently acknowleged that they may have been out of line. Even in the US it was only in the 60's that women werent considered guilty of getting themselves raped. The Kobe Bryant case has netted the aleged victom a few death threats for daring to come forward. To that I say the world has not come to anything. As for the Viagra issue, it is no different than the institutionalized gang-rapes that go on everyday in some minority communities. (see Jane Magazine)
Sean

[LadyDragon]

Granted, women have been getting rapes for thousands of years. But I feel the human race has come a long way since then. (You know, evolution.)

But to add fuel to the fire for all the sicko's out there is our own media. The reality is that sex sells. Who do little girls idolized, all the beautiful models in the magizines, and on t.v. They make themselves sick trying to make themselves beautiful, and all their really doing is making it easier for someone to pick them out in a crowd and make them their next victim.

I'm not saying for them not to dress nice or look good, and chances are that even if they try and dress casually, that won't stop someone from making them their victim, but at least there's a bit less of a temptation. The eye candy is taken away, so-to-speak.

[Touch Of Death]

No, I don't know Evolution. I'm not saying I don't believe in it but a couple television sets havent changed us all that much. I just watched a special on the Macarthy era. and it was only yesterday.

[Cruentus]

So, what are you saying?

[arnisador]

With the new sociobiology, Evolutionary Psychology, there's been a lot written about evolution and rape.

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by arnisador
With the new sociobiology, Evolutionary Psychology, there's been a lot written about evolution and rape.

Interesting; any online links I can look at, or are they all university studies, journals, or books?

[arnisador]

There have been a number of popular books on the subject. I'll try to dig up some links later.

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by PAUL
So, what are you saying?
I'm saying every once in a while a society polarizes and in that process a lot of women get raped. We have not evolved passed this phenomenon I'm not sure we ever will. We have not evolved passed the need for martial training, have we? Will we?
Sean

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I'm saying every once in a while a society polarizes and in that process a lot of women get raped. We have not evolved passed this phenomenon I'm not sure we ever will. We have not evolved passed the need for martial training, have we? Will we?
Sean

I see...

The part that got me the most was that as technoligy improves, so does a rapists ability to find victims, or inflict harm on their victims. Internet for instance makes preditors more able to lure kids. Viagra makes the otherwise impitent preditor able to continually rape their victim. As bad as gang raping? I would say that perhaps gang raping would be worse, then getting raped by one person, unless you were captured by a seriel killer like the one I first mentioned at the start of this thread. But I would hazard to guess that statistically most rapes aren't/weren't "gang rapes." I believe that most rapes now a days are date rapes. For the ones that aren't, the actual "rape" only takes about 5 minutes. Now with Viagra in the picture, they can be raped for hours in a continuous fashion. I think that this "ups" the severety of the crime, wouldn't you think?

Sure, it may seem to "equal out" in that technoligy allows us to catch criminals more frequently. Unfortunatily, this is only after the crime has been committed.

So is it worse now then before? I don't know. It certainly doesn't seem to be better. Funny how we are supposed to be an improved society, when things like this remind us that we have a ways to go.

I would like to read some of the studies that Arnisador mentioned, though, so I can get more facts on the issue.

:cool:

[LadyDragon]

Its not just t.v. that I'm referring to. Its all media, radio, magazines, even your sunday paper has some sort or sexul inuendo if you look at the ads.

This too just adds to the hightened sexual peek of young girls. They want to look like Britney Spears, Christina Aguillera and all those other teeny boppers running around with their stomachs out, in low rise jeans. It just makes the sexual predator more aware of the beauty that surrounds him every day and every where.

Unfortunately, there's nothing for us to do about this though except make girls and young women aware of may happen to them out on the streets and in the real world. To much of our youth spends its time living in a fantasy land. But unfortunately because of these types of sexual predators, parents are afraid to even let their children play in their own yard. It almost seems as if there were no way of getting around the situation. Either you let the kids go out and play and get them away from the computer and video games and take the risk of them being put in harms way. Or, have them live inside and only go out when you go with them because of the fear that something may happen to them.

[KenpoTess]

With the advent of the Internet available to young people.. this also is an avenue for sexual predators to find and prey upon both sexes. So in reality.. keeping our kids inside with the ability to go anywhere in the world on this box.. may not be such a great 'babysitter'. I know to many parents who have not a clue what their child is up to online.. Kids are far from ignorant and certainly not as innocent as we want to believe. The chat rooms where the perv (male or female) sits waiting for their prey to enter their lair are not governed by any safe guards, other than the Police who pretend to be such a perv and thwart them in their ruse, but unfortunately the police and other such organizations can't be in every chat room/ board online.

We've all heard the stories of young girls and boys meeting someone online, thinking they are a kid their own age.. and well we all know the end results..
Times have changed .. no two ways about it. The predators have always been 'out there' but now.. they are ' In here' where we all want to feel the safest.. Our homes..

Parent's have to take responsibilty for their child's daily life. They have to get off their butts and Start paying attention to what they are doing, watching, talking to.. It angers me to no end.. how Irresponsible the adults in today's society can be.. *disclaimer: not all .. but too many *

This is just a very easy route for the monsters to find their victims.. :(

:soapbox:

Tess

[Ceicei]

So what do you suggest needs to be done?

I wonder....

When I was in high school, my PE class has different "sports" to try out for a few weeks at a time. We had fencing, golf, dodge ball, tennis, basketball, volleyball, etc. We were not allowed to have the same choice right after another (ie, can't have all be basketball for PE the whole school year).

It does give the students exposure to different activities. If the student finds one and does it especially well, the school team could be tried out before the season starts or to join the specific
school sports club.

How hard would it be to introduce that idea into high schools and have one of these "sports" be martial arts?

- Ceicei

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Ceicei
So what do you suggest needs to be done?

I wonder....

When I was in high school, my PE class has different "sports" to try out for a few weeks at a time. We had fencing, golf, dodge ball, tennis, basketball, volleyball, etc. We were not allowed to have the same choice right after another (ie, can't have all be basketball for PE the whole school year).

It does give the students exposure to different activities. If the student finds one and does it especially well, the school team could be tried out before the season starts or to join the specific
school sports club.

How hard would it be to introduce that idea into high schools and have one of these "sports" be martial arts?

- Ceicei

From what I hear, they do it in the Philippines.

[Touch Of Death]

Its not going to happen. Because of the new trends (showing up to school with an arsenal), Violence will never be offered as a solution in our school systems. Common sense goes right out the window when it comes to doing somthing pro-active about your everyday danger. The police actualy suggest remainng calm in a hazardous situation. This is not a good idea. I was just discussing with a freind last night about how some employees at the local Burger King allowed themselves to be tied up one morning and were then butchered for their compliance. A freind of mine was robbed at gun point and allowed the assailants to force him in their car. His body was later found by hunters. I can't in good conscience suggest that people just let the authorities handle a situation.
Sean

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Its not going to happen. Because of the new trends (showing up to school with an arsenal), Violence will never be offered as a solution in our school systems. Common sense goes right out the window when it comes to doing somthing pro-active about your everyday danger. The police actualy suggest remainng calm in a hazardous situation. This is not a good idea. I was just discussing with a freind last night about how some employees at the local Burger King allowed themselves to be tied up one morning and were then butchered for their compliance. A freind of mine was robbed at gun point and allowed the assailants to force him in their car. His body was later found by hunters. I can't in good conscience suggest that people just let the authorities handle a situation.
Sean

Ever hear of the Witchita Horror. I would rather take my chances wresting the gun then go through that or allow my girl/family/friends go through that.

[arnisador]

It doesn't ring a bell--can you provide a link (rather than post more horrible things here)?

[OULobo]

This is a story that is not for the feint of heart. I consider my self a fairly tough minded individual, but this had me reeling for about a week.

Here's a good start, if you really want to delve into it there are transcripts of the trial online somewhere. Just search under "Wichita Horror".

link: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/carr_brothers/index.html?sect=13

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by LadyDragon
Its not just t.v. that I'm referring to. Its all media, radio, magazines, even your sunday paper has some sort or sexul inuendo if you look at the ads.

This too just adds to the hightened sexual peek of young girls. They want to look like Britney Spears, Christina Aguillera and all those other teeny boppers running around with their stomachs out, in low rise jeans. It just makes the sexual predator more aware of the beauty that surrounds him every day and every where.


More often then not, however, it's not the victim's sexual look that makes them a victim. It's the attacker's attitude that they can assert their will onto another. The girls, or women, don't have to have that Playboy look to be raped. They only have to look and act like victims (non-confident, non-assertive).

As a society, we've become more of a "what's in it for me" generation. We want everything to come easy and it doesn't matter who else suffers as long as we get what we want. I think that's the message in the media that's causing the problems.

WhiteBirch

[LadyDragon]

Its true, our society has become very me/I oriented. We do whats best for ourselves and those closest to us. People see crime happen in front of them every day and do nothing.

But I do agree that having confidence and being assertive does help. But what happens with some of these sickos is that they like the struggle. The more you say no, and the more you fight back the more they feel like their getting what they want. I've heard some people say that if you try and use reverse psychology it may work in certain situations. The attacker gets their rush from having you fight bad. So instead do just the opposit. Go along with what they want you to do. This may just turn them off and they may in turn leave you alone.

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by LadyDragon
Its true, our society has become very me/I oriented. We do whats best for ourselves and those closest to us. People see crime happen in front of them every day and do nothing.

But I do agree that having confidence and being assertive does help. But what happens with some of these sickos is that they like the struggle. The more you say no, and the more you fight back the more they feel like their getting what they want. I've heard some people say that if you try and use reverse psychology it may work in certain situations. The attacker gets their rush from having you fight bad. So instead do just the opposit. Go along with what they want you to do. This may just turn them off and they may in turn leave you alone.

Unfortunatily, you can't predict which they are; whether they want you to struggle or not. You just have to defend yourself as best as you can, period.

[LadyDragon]

Its just horrible to think that no matter which way you look at things, there's no possible way out.

You can fight back, but you might not win. You can not fight back and try and make it more of a psychological battle and still not win. Its just outrageous that these people don't see what their doing is wrong. Even worste is that some of them do know its wrong and continue to do because they think their invincible and they won't get caught.

Their is a bit of irony to all of this though, and that is that a person who gets caught for molesting/raping a child will get whats coming to them. In jail they will be treated as if they were the child that they abused. Unfortunately, this is not the case with those who rape women.

[KenpoMatt]

posted by OULobo
Here's a good start, if you really want to delve into it there are transcripts of the trial online somewhere. Just search under "Wichita Horror".

Oh my God...

I just read the "Wichita Horror" story. I...I don't know what to say. I cannot put into words the anger and sorrow I feel after reading that.

If you EVER need some sort of motivation to train harder, do one more rep or set this (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorio...ex.html?sect=13) is it.

OULobo, thanks for posting it.

[Michelle]

Yea, I read it yesterday. Absolutely horrid. Not just women being victims here either... men too. I agree with your remark about incentive to train. I can't understand how anyone could *not* train, knowing things like this happen in the world.

Michelle

[OULobo]

Originally posted by KenpoMatt
Oh my God...

I just read the "Wichita Horror" story. I...I don't know what to say. I cannot put into words the anger and sorrow I feel after reading that.

If you EVER need some sort of motivation to train harder, do one more rep or set this (http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorio...ex.html?sect=13) is it.

OULobo, thanks for posting it.

That is one of the many horror stories that formed my opinion that you should never be complacent, especially when criminally threatened. I wondered if anyone actually went and checked it out because no one posted on it. I'm glad someone did. Supposedly people didn't hear about this because the media suppressed it due to the racial tension it would cause and the shocking nature of the crimes. This one actually robbed me of a good nights sleep.

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by LadyDragon
Its just horrible to think that no matter which way you look at things, there's no possible way out.

You can fight back, but you might not win. You can not fight back and try and make it more of a psychological battle and still not win. Its just outrageous that these people don't see what their doing is wrong. Even worste is that some of them do know its wrong and continue to do because they think their invincible and they won't get caught.

Their is a bit of irony to all of this though, and that is that a person who gets caught for molesting/raping a child will get whats coming to them. In jail they will be treated as if they were the child that they abused. Unfortunately, this is not the case with those who rape women.
Excuse me but men get raped in prison all the time.
Sean

[LadyDragon]

I know men get raped in prison all the time. But on the streets that is a very rare occurance. And if your behind bars and your in there for molesting or raping a child, and something like that happens to you, I see it as your getting what you deserve. (What goes around comes around.)

[KenpoMatt]

The Witchta Horror

I have no idea what I'd do in that situation. But, I can't help but wonder why no one did anything to fight back.

I don't remember all the details of the story. But, 2 significant moments stick out in my head.

1)Each of the 5 victims were taken, one at a time, to an ATM. Each one was alone with a single gunman while they walked through the house, into the garage, in the car, to the ATM and back again. I have to believe that at least one of them suspected they were all going to die. When you are driving with your hands up on the steering wheel, how hard is it to throw a fist into the passenger's throat? Yes, I realize you'll probably take a bullet anyway. But, at least you have some chance, no matter how tiny.

2)Everyone is pulled out of the car trunks - freezing, scared, raped, robbed, threatened and fully knowing they are about to die. The gunmen tell them to kneel down. Ladies and gentlemen, you are about to be executed. DO SOMETHING.

The gunmen slaughter one of your friends. Then another. Then another. What causes a person to continue to stay there knowing they are about to have a bullet explode into the back of their head? Granted, at this point it is too late. You are not going to jump up and defeat two armed murderers with your bare hands. But, DAMMIT!!! GET THE HELL UP AND RUN!!!! DO SOMETHING!!!! DO ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!! I don't care if you only take two steps before your life ends. Don't go quietly! Don't let your life be extinguised with nothing more than a wimper. I don't understand.

I've never been in anything as horrifying as this situation. But, jeezus, I have to believe I would do something. Martial training or not, wouldn't you do something? Anything?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Cruentus]

One word explains it all: Fear.

When people are afraid, they'll do anything you tell them, even if it means their death.

This is the sad but true state of the human condition.

:(

[KenpoMatt]

Yes - but isn't there a point when the desire to live, anger, or fight/flight instincts kick in? You've seen your girlfiend, soon to be fiance, repeatedly raped. You've been robbed. They just blew the back out of your friend's skull. You are next.

I hope I never know enough fear that I'll peacefully accept my execution. I hope no one ever knows that much fear.

[arnisador]

I too was surprised no one ran. But, in retrospect we know they got killed. In prospect--not unlike the 9/11 hijackings--they may have thought they were acting out of self-defense by playing along and trying to survive.

[OULobo]

I almost feel guilty posting rape stories, but I think that it may help some women to realize the danger out there. So that being said, here is one that just popped up on my radar. Staight from the upper class ranks of Japanese society.

http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,7217161,00.html

[matt.m]

While I was in the Marine Corps I knew of a guy who raped a teenage girl to get back at the girls dad. The guy was in my unit and the girls dad was our company commander. It was a show of power for him. Sorry, I think if you make someone a victim then you are the ultimate piece of crap. By the way this guy got life in levenworth.

[Ceicei]

While I was in the Marine Corps I knew of a guy who raped a teenage girl to get back at the girls dad. The guy was in my unit and the girls dad was our company commander. It was a show of power for him. Sorry, I think if you make someone a victim then you are the ultimate piece of crap. By the way this guy got life in levenworth.

Power? What was he thinking? I hope he STAYS there in Levenworth and that he won't be let out early for whatever reason....

- Ceicei

[zoestyel]

There certainly needs to be more self defense classes for women. Ecspecialy in the high schools. Or better yet make a self defense class necessary for gym class in high school!



I watched something on T.V. late night a few nights ago, Discovery or Learning Channel, I think.

It was about a Serial Killer/Rapist who targeted young girls between 12-15 years old.

If this isn't horrable enough already, the preditor had a perscription for Viagra. The one girl who got away (which led to his capture) gave an account of (while she was bound to the bed) him being all juiced up on viagra and raping her repeatedly, all night long.

This gave me the chills. Just f**king lovely. Not only do women have to worry about being raped once, but they have to worry about sexual enhancing drugs that will allow the nightmare to never end.

The world sometimes only seems to get worse. God I hope that women nowadays only get more careful then ever before.

I had to punch a few things after I heard of this. :flammad: :mad: :angry: