statue of the crane

[rachel]

Any kempo students know statue of the crane? I looked under search here and found nothing.

[jfarnsworth]

Not to be a goof but What is it?:confused:

[rachel]

Jason, It's a form we need to know to get our green belts. One form is 2 kata and one is statue of the crane. You've never heard of it? Maybe my teacher fused it with something else. I should ask him. Ours is a blend of Shaolin, kempo and a little jujitsu I believe. I was hoping someone heard of this form. The fact no one does has me wondering.....

[rachel]

I plugged in statue of the crane on the web and came up with kenso-ryu kempo. They do statue of the crane. Some web sites call it a kata.

[kenmpoka]

Originally posted by rachel
Jason, It's a form we need to know to get our green belts. One form is 2 kata and one is statue of the crane. You've never heard of it? Maybe my teacher fused it with something else. I should ask him. Ours is a blend of Shaolin, kempo and a little jujitsu I believe. I was hoping someone heard of this form. The fact no one does has me wondering..... Hey Rachel,
Statue of the Crane, sometimes referred to as Stature of the crane is practiced among Karazenpo Goshinjutsu students as well as Nick Cerio's Kenpo, Shaolin KeMpo and Godin's lineage of Chinese Kempo.
It is based on the Okinawan form Rohai.
If you have any particular question, please don't hesitate to ask.

Salute,

[Mark L]

Yeah, I've got that form.

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by kenmpoka
Statue of the Crane, sometimes referred to as Stature of the crane

There is a bit of difference in just one word.

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by rachel
Any kempo students know statue of the crane? I looked under search here and found nothing.

Try this link

http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/c/ckerins/CraneWE.html

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[KEMPO DAVE]

It is a fun form, much different from the katas and pinions you have received so far. (It would be like going from beginning math(+-x) to geometry). Enjoy it!!

[kensen83]

statue of the crane is my favorite form from shaolin kempo, the form i use dto always do as a kid in competitions, if anyone has questions on this form ill be more then happy to help out!

[Maltair]

Anybody have it written down anywhere?

[Karazenpo]

Anybody have it written down anywhere?

United Studios of Self Defense has a paperback handbook out that has this form amongst others, broken down pretty clearly and easy to learn. The book is not cheap though. Nick Cerio's Kenpo also has the NCK version in their 'Master's Text', again, it's done pretty well and easy to pick up. NCK version has been altered from Shaolin Kempo but still pretty close. Both have been radically altered from Rohai but the commonality with the Okinawan original is sequences of threes. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

[still learning]

Hello, Sounds like a cool form. Have fun with it. ...Aloha

[Karazenpo]

There is a bit of difference in just one word.

Hi Jeff, I tried looking into that the best I could. Gm. S. George Pesare taught it to Prof. Nick Cerio who in turn taught it to Fred Villari...........The spelling that is used is Statue, which does seem to be correct when you look at the actual translation. The form is derived from Okinawan's Rohai, Ro-meaning 'heron' or heron mark, although some have refered to this form as 'Crane on a Rock' I leave that translation to Shorin ryu's No Hi, for the most common translation for Rohai is 'Symbol of the White Heron' (I also found 'Vision' of the White Heron), so I suppose one could substitute 'Symbol' for 'Statue' and 'Crane' for 'Heron', hense, 'Statue of the Crane'. Rohai was originally brought from southern China to Tomari in Okinawa. I believe it was Matsumura who passed this from on. The Chinese Kung Fu art that resembles the original Hawaiian-derived kenpo is called the 'Singing Crane' system, which is an offshoot of the same White Crane style that influenced Goju ryu. I always saw a resemblance between kempo and goju. If our Hawaiian derived kenpo actually came from Okinawan Shorei ryu Kempo Karate which I personally believe, then this system evidentally had influence on the Shorei ryu style also. The White Crane system is a closer match to our kenpo/kempo than even the Five Animal style. Much of my reference material on this particular aspect comes from Brian Baxter, an extremely knowledgable senior of Kajukenbo who also holds a sandan in Tracy's Kenpo. Last I knew Brian was a 6th in Kajukenbo. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

[dsp921]

Karazenpo, I thought Professor Cerio used "statute" and not "statue",
at least that is what is in "The Master's Text". Is that a misprint?
I do usually hear the form referred to as "Statue of the Crane".

Thanks

[Karazenpo]

Karazenpo, I thought Professor Cerio used "statute" and not "statue",
at least that is what is in "The Master's Text". Is that a misprint?
I do usually hear the form referred to as "Statue of the Crane".

Thanks

Yes, that spelling or usage of the word is incorrect. 'Statute' refers to a law, decree or edict enacted by the legislature, ex. Statute of Limitations. Not fitting at all. Also mentioned above by ProfessorKenpo is a link to Shihan Mark Sheeley's Kensho ryu website. Sheeley was a long time student of Cerio's and if you notice he spells it 'statue'. 'Stature' could also be used and at one time I did use it for a little while but upon further research on 'Rohai' I felt 'statue' was correct. Looking back and to the best of my recollection, it was originally called 'Statue' of the Crane and I'm going back to the 70's.

[Karazenpo]

Hi Jeff, I tried looking into that the best I could. Gm. S. George Pesare taught it to Prof. Nick Cerio who in turn taught it to Fred Villari...........The spelling that is used is Statue, which does seem to be correct when you look at the actual translation. The form is derived from Okinawan's Rohai, Ro-meaning 'heron' or heron mark, although some have refered to this form as 'Crane on a Rock' I leave that translation to Shorin ryu's No Hi, for the most common translation for Rohai is 'Symbol of the White Heron' (I also found 'Vision' of the White Heron), so I suppose one could substitute 'Symbol' for 'Statue' and 'Crane' for 'Heron', hense, 'Statue of the Crane'. Rohai was originally brought from southern China to Tomari in Okinawa. I believe it was Matsumura who passed this form on. The Chinese Kung Fu art that resembles the original Hawaiian-derived kenpo is called the 'Singing Crane' system, which is an offshoot of the same White Crane style that influenced Goju ryu. I always saw a resemblance between kempo and goju. If our Hawaiian derived kenpo actually came from Okinawan Shorei ryu Kempo Karate which I personally believe, then this system evidentally had influence on the Shorei ryu style also. The White Crane system is a closer match to our kenpo/kempo than even the Five Animal style. Much of my reference material on this particular aspect comes from Brian Baxter, an extremely knowledgable senior of Kajukenbo who also holds a sandan in Tracy's Kenpo. Last I knew Brian was a 6th in Kajukenbo. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

I would like to make a correction here to my own post above. The exact composer (Rohai) is unknown though the kata was probably brought to Okinawa by Sakagawa, not Matsumura, although that's not been proved positive either. However, like I stated in the above post, the form was first found being practiced in Tomari. Professor Joe

[Doc]

Any kempo students know statue of the crane? I looked under search here and found nothing.
Interesting because I have heard this term, but never with regard to a "form."

Ed Parker Sr. spoke of this as a physical principle to add to your structural integrity arsenal. This is the beginning of where "Statue Principle" comes from.

It is a demonstration that requires you to stand on one leg, while someone using their entire body mass attempts to push you off balance and thus move you. Done properly a person should be incapable of moving you at all.

It is also the principle that gives structural integrity to a "cat stance" when moving rearward in conjunction with the very functional and effective "P.A.M." as recently discussed by Dr. Dave C.

I never considered there might be a "form" as well. Does this "form" emphasize structural integrity and is it demonstrated in some fashion?

[Karazenpo]

Interesting because I have heard this term, but never with regard to a "form."

Ed Parker Sr. spoke of this as a physical principle to add to your structural integrity arsenal. This is the beginning of where "Statue Principle" comes from.

It is a demonstration that requires you to stand on one leg, while someone using their entire body mass attempts to push you off balance and thus move you. Done properly a person should be incapable of moving you at all.

It is also the principle that gives structural integrity to a "cat stance" when moving rearward in conjunction with the very functional and effective "P.A.M." as recently discussed by Dr. Dave C.

I never considered there might be a "form" as well. Does this "form" emphasize structural integrity and is it demonstrated in some fashion?

Yes, Doc, it has three points to it where you jump back in a crane stance and hold it steady for the count of one-one thousand. Some call this form the 'unshakable balance of the crane'. It orignally is Okinawan Tomari-te's Rohai and we have it in Gm. Pesare's Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu, Nick Cerio's Kenpo and Gm. Villari's Shaolin Kempo Karate. All three of these related systems have modified the form to fit the perspective of the founder. Respectfully, Professor Joe

PS: Although Doc, I don't think there's anyone, that I know of anyway, that couldn't be knocked on his derriere while standing on one leg, lol.

[Doc]

Yes, Doc, it has three points to it where you jump back in a crane stance and hold it steady for the count of one-one thousand. Some call this form the 'unshakable balance of the crane'. It orignally is Okinawan Tomari-te's Rohai and we have it in Gm. Pesare's Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu, Nick Cerio's Kenpo and Gm. Villari's Shaolin Kempo Karate. All three of these related systems have modified the form to fit the perspective of the founder. Respectfully, Professor Joe

PS: Although Doc, I don't think there's anyone, that I know of anyway, that couldn't be knocked on his derriere while standing on one leg, lol.
Interesting. Ed Parker Sr. always told me it came from Hung Gar and Splashing Hands and I recall seeing it practiced at GM Ark Wongs Kwoon in the fifties. As an aside, no one has knocked me over while demonstrating this principle - yet. :)

[Karazenpo]

Interesting. Ed Parker Sr. always told me it came from Hung Gar and Splashing Hands and I recall seeing it practiced at GM Ark Wongs Kwoon in the fifties. As an aside, no one has knocked me over while demonstrating this principle - yet. :)

Yes, Doc, Mr. Parker was right. The crane spoken about in American Kenpo and Tracy's Kenpo is the Tiger/Crane form, one of the original five Hung Gar forms, yes, I totally agree on that. Statue of the Crane (symbol or vision of the white heron) however, is Rohai, which was a form widely practiced and passed down from the Tomari province of Okinawa. This form originally came from southern China also, but from the White Crane system and possibly more accurately from the 'Singing Crane' offshoot of the White Crane style. So in EPAK and Tracy's it's the Tiger/Crane form in Okinawan karate and Karazenpo and it's subsystems, it's Statue of the Crane (also referred to as the 'unshakable balance of the crane). Doc, you're a better man than me. I never really tried it, but I think I'd be kissing pavement if I did!, lol. Take care my friend and always a pleasure, With respect, Professor Joe

[Doc]

Yes, Doc, Mr. Parker was right. The crane spoken about in American Kenpo and Tracy's Kenpo is the Tiger/Crane form, one of the original five Hung Gar forms, yes, I totally agree on that. Statue of the Crane (symbol or vision of the white heron) however, is Rohai, which was a form widely practiced and passed down from the Tomari province of Okinawa. This form originally came from southern China also, but from the White Crane system and possibly more accurately from the 'Singing Crane' offshoot of the White Crane style. So in EPAK and Tracy's it's the Tiger/Crane form in Okinawan karate and Karazenpo and it's subsystems, it's Statue of the Crane (also referred to as the 'unshakable balance of the crane). Doc, you're a better man than me. I never really tried it, but I think I'd be kissing pavement if I did!, lol. Take care my friend and always a pleasure, With respect, Professor Joe
OK than that explains something I've often wondered about. During our "Chinese Kenpo" days, everyone did the "Tiger and the Crane" form borrowed straight from Hung Gar. When Mr. Parker dropped the form, he began talking about this concept of structural integrity he called "Statue of the Crane." But to my knowledge he never made reference to the old form being a part of the principle. I always wondered if there was a relationship. Thanks Joe, I'm just "heavier" than you.

[Bill Lear]

As an aside, no one has knocked me over while demonstrating this principle - yet. :)

If I were to pull the sword from the stone would it make me KING? (Sorry Doc, I just couldn't resist.) :knight:

[Goldendragon7]

If I were to pull the sword from the stone would it make me KING? (Sorry Doc, I just couldn't resist.) :knight:

Well, just because you pull the sword while on the Throne does NOT make you KING BiLLY!!!!!!!1
:mp5:

[Bill Lear]

Well, just because you pull the sword while on the Throne does NOT make you KING BiLLY!!!!!!!1
:mp5:

I don't usually pull it while on the throne, but I have been known to polish mine while in the shower. :rolleyes:

[Goldendragon7]

I don't usually pull it while on the throne, but I have been known to polish mine while in the shower. :rolleyes:

OMG !!!!!
:whip:

[Doc]

If I were to pull the sword from the stone would it make me KING? (Sorry Doc, I just couldn't resist.) :knight:
Billy, I thought you were the King.

[Karazenpo]

Doc, thinking back to my shodan test back in '77, I do recall this principle emphasized during a portion of it. We were told to get into the crane stance/posture (from Statue of the Crane) while the black belts who assisted in the test drilled us with punches and kicks. I remember taking a hook kick to the midsection. I didn't go down but if it caught me square in the solar plexus I probably would have had a carpet sandwich, lol.

[Doc]

Doc, thinking back to my shodan test back in '77, I do recall this principle emphasized during a portion of it. We were told to get into the crane stance/posture (from Statue of the Crane) while the black belts who assisted in the test drilled us with punches and kicks. I remember taking a hook kick to the midsection. I didn't go down but if it caught me square in the solar plexus I probably would have had a carpet sandwich, lol.
Although it doesn't taste that much better, I'd say a "carpet sandwich" during a test is better than a "concrete sandwich" on the street.

[Karazenpo]

Although it doesn't taste that much better, I'd say a "carpet sandwich" during a test is better than a "concrete sandwich" on the street.

Very true Doc, very true. I most defintely would rather take the 'rug burn' instead.

[Danjo]

BTW this form is also taught on the Villari DVD set. It's slightly different than the USSD version, but only slightly.

[14 Kempo]

In looking at the meanings of the various words ...

statue
A three-dimensional form or likeness sculpted, modeled, carved, or cast in material such as stone, clay, wood, or bronze.
A sculpture representing a human or animal
statute
A law enacted by a legislature.
A decree or edict, as of a ruler.
An established law or rule, as of a corporation.
stature
The natural height of a human or animal in an upright position.
An achieved level; status.... using the word "Statue" would imply a pose, no movement. I can make no sense of using the word "Statute", maybe someone out there can do so. The word "Stature" would make the most sense and is the term used at USSD.

[stickarts]

I saw several different names and "stature" was the last one i saw and I stuck with it since it seemed to make the most sense with what little I knew about it.
I never knew much of the history behind the form but it is useful to us in working balance.
Thanks to all for shedding some light on this!

[ChrisWTK]

I'm actually currently learning this form and it's listed as Stature of the Crane in our system.

[AmericanKenpoChris]

When I learned that as a green belt back in 1985-86, it was called Statue of the Crane. I made the presumption it was called that because of the crane stances frequently being utilized, but never really questioned the semantics of the title for I was only a teenager at the time.

I saw no practicality in many of the forms up until this point with the exception of one and two kata, but only to a minimal extent. There seemed to be a lot of travel in the forms without much substance and questioned the validity of the strikes or lack of. Many of those forms conditioned you to believe that one strike would be enough.

I was disillusioned and believed that I could defend myself back then until one day I got grabbed by the shirt facing a punch, and on another occasion, I was in a headlock and at a loss for words...

I was in a style that didn't prepare me to deal with those situations. In my mind, I contemplated punching or kicking my opponent and hoping that would be enough, but my opponent was not a killer, just some school yard bully. At the time I knew nothing of lone kimono, grip of death, etc. I trained for 3 years in that style and really didn't know what to do. I was never taught any situation specific techniques other than for a straight punch.

I am no expert, but after seeing the differences in styles, can say that I found something special in the Ed Parker's system.

If you enjoyed Statue of the Crane, I would definately recommend checking out short form two and long form two, as well as short and long form one. I feel those four forms encompass more useful concepts than learned in my previous style.

I am passionate about my new style and hope others would check out Ed Parker's Kenpo.

[fnorfurfoot]

In looking at the meanings of the various words ...

statue
A three-dimensional form or likeness sculpted, modeled, carved, or cast in material such as stone, clay, wood, or bronze.
A sculpture representing a human or animal
statute

A law enacted by a legislature.
A decree or edict, as of a ruler.
An established law or rule, as of a corporation.
stature

The natural height of a human or animal in an upright position.
An achieved level; status.
... using the word "Statue" would imply a pose, no movement. I can make no sense of using the word "Statute", maybe someone out there can do so. The word "Stature" would make the most sense and is the term used at USSD.

I agree with you. Using the word "statue" for a form that has you move around made no sense to me. That is what my instructor called it. When I opened my own school and spent some time looking around on the internet, I noticed "stature" used in some schools and that made more sense to me, so that is what I use.

[marlon]

It seems you had some crappy instruction. Shaolin kempo and its forms are all about multiple strikes



***[I saw no practicality in many of the forms up until this point with the exception of one and two kata, but only to a minimal extent. There seemed to be a lot of travel in the forms without much substance and questioned the validity of the strikes or lack of. Many of those forms conditioned you to believe that one strike would be enough.

I was disillusioned and believed that I could defend myself back then until one day I got grabbed by the shirt facing a punch, and on another occasion, I was in a headlock and at a loss for words...***

This seems to be a problem with intruction and training not the system



***I was in a style that didn't prepare me to deal with those situations. In my mind, I contemplated punching or kicking my opponent and hoping that would be enough, but my opponent was not a killer, just some school yard bully. At the time I knew nothing of lone kimono, grip of death, etc. I trained for 3 years in that style and really didn't know what to do. I was never taught any situation specific techniques other than for a straight punch.***



Again instruction seems to be the problem not the syle.



***I am no expert, but after seeing the differences in styles, can say that I found something special in the Ed Parker's system.

If you enjoyed Statue of the Crane, I would definately recommend checking out short form two and long form two, as well as short and long form one. I feel those four forms encompass more useful concepts than learned in my previous style.***




Statue of the Crane is based on an Okinawan form called Rohai. the applications and prinicples are proven and effective. I am very happy that you have found a good instructor in EPAK. I would ask that you keep an open mind about SK in that perhaps the problem was more with your instruction rather than the style...in fact take the understanding you have learned in EPAK and re do some of your SK forms and techniques from this perspective...i'll bet you find something powerful and exciting in what you have...see how you can use combination 3 against a hook punch...use 18 against a shirt grab with a punch... iam not saying leave EPAK i am saying take a fresh look at sk ... if you like...as you may understand i am passionate about my style also...



I am passionate about my new style and hope others would check out Ed Parker's Kenpo.
[/quote]

Respectfully,
Marlon

[marlon]

I was taught that the use of Staute in the name was to remind the student of balance...i have also seen the form called the unshakeable balance of the crane....remind the student of balance for themselves and the techniques in the form that use balance as a key aspect.

Respectfully,
Marlon


I agree with you. Using the word "statue" for a form that has you move around made no sense to me. That is what my instructor called it. When I opened my own school and spent some time looking around on the internet, I noticed "stature" used in some schools and that made more sense to me, so that is what I use.

[marlon]

I always felt that kempo was more related to Naha te than Shurei

Respectfully,
Marlon



Hi Jeff, I tried looking into that the best I could. Gm. S. George Pesare taught it to Prof. Nick Cerio who in turn taught it to Fred Villari...........The spelling that is used is Statue, which does seem to be correct when you look at the actual translation. The form is derived from Okinawan's Rohai, Ro-meaning 'heron' or heron mark, although some have refered to this form as 'Crane on a Rock' I leave that translation to Shorin ryu's No Hi, for the most common translation for Rohai is 'Symbol of the White Heron' (I also found 'Vision' of the White Heron), so I suppose one could substitute 'Symbol' for 'Statue' and 'Crane' for 'Heron', hense, 'Statue of the Crane'. Rohai was originally brought from southern China to Tomari in Okinawa. I believe it was Matsumura who passed this from on. The Chinese Kung Fu art that resembles the original Hawaiian-derived kenpo is called the 'Singing Crane' system, which is an offshoot of the same White Crane style that influenced Goju ryu. I always saw a resemblance between kempo and goju. If our Hawaiian derived kenpo actually came from Okinawan Shorei ryu Kempo Karate which I personally believe, then this system evidentally had influence on the Shorei ryu style also. The White Crane system is a closer match to our kenpo/kempo than even the Five Animal style. Much of my reference material on this particular aspect comes from Brian Baxter, an extremely knowledgable senior of Kajukenbo who also holds a sandan in Tracy's Kenpo. Last I knew Brian was a 6th in Kajukenbo. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

[bujuts]

I learned two versions of this back in the day when studying Okinawan systems. One a version through the Kuniba / Teruo Hayashi line and another, a little closer to its Tomari / Naha roots (I think), through a Mabune / Shito-Ryu line.

The crane stance in each differed, but never did we learn to hold that stance for a definitive amount of time. It was, however, one of my favorite kata.

Personally though, the thrust of any "balance" of mine is the balance of my life. Mechanically speaking, balance of the bipedal creature that is a human being is simply a state of continous mechanical adjustment, and is not a good idea in a fight. So, I don't use mechanical balance in my kenpo, simply because of the physics. Even if you manage to deliver a hard, fight-stopping shot from a one-legged stance (which is questionable), there's no getting around Newton's first law. For me, balance is like jumping spinning outsdie cresecent kicks - I do not train it because I do not believe in using it in a violent engagement.

As far as the kata is concerned, I enjoyed the contact manipulation contained within it more than anything. The crane stances were to me always a pretty add on, but disfunctional against violence.

Thanks for the memories,

Salute

Steven Brown
UKF

[marlon]

The balance i have learned morte involved taking the opponents balance from them rather than delivering a stop hit from one leg, although strikes from one leg in forms i usually interpret as a message to put most of your wieght in that direction and not necessarily to stand on one leg. The one leg thingy in the form serves to remind me of the concept of balance and using it as a weapon and also quick escapes and return force being associated concepts in terms of movement and fighting.

Respectfully,
marlon

[bujuts]

The balance i have learned morte involved taking the opponents balance from them rather than delivering a stop hit from one leg, although strikes from one leg in forms i usually interpret as a message to put most of your wieght in that direction and not necessarily to stand on one leg. The one leg thingy in the form serves to remind me of the concept of balance and using it as a weapon and also quick escapes and return force being associated concepts in terms of movement and fighting.

Respectfully,
marlon
Yes, often when performing that kata I would find myself creating a line of gravity into the attack, than trying to come truly into balance, much the way we do kicks in AK. I recall that when working application on that particular stance, I would train it as a knee strike while moving in, despite the kata moving away from the attack. Disparity between form / practice and function / application - one of my only peaves with some classical training methods.

Cheers, thanks for the dialogue.

Steven Brown
UKF

[KENPOJOE]

Hi folks!
I was looking at this thread and decided to add some information.
When I started with the original USSD chain owned by Fred Villari, the form was known as "Statue of the crane". The form was called that because of the "freezing like a statue" in the crane stance [one legged stance]{"sagi ashi dachi"}<okinawan/japanese> that is a prevalent feature of the form/kata. I have seen various sources list it as "stature" or "Statute" of the crane and have simply written it off as a printing error or a misspelled word in a manual of a high ranking individual mispronouncing a particular word. However, the form is known as Statue of the Crane. It has been stated that the form was from the Tomori Ryu and is known as "Rohai" ("crane on a rock"). Again, an image of a crance poised [in a pose] standing upon a rock,looking like a statue, one in harmony with the surface it stands upon,appearing to be a statue carved from the stone that it stands on.
I have seen this form performed many times over the years and I'm sadened when i see subtle elements of the kata deleted as people stray further from the original source of the form itself. Aspects such as not going to "hidden fist"/"cup and saucer" position after doing the downward x block/"crossed crane wings" position,not using the proper "hopping" of the crane feet then locking into the crance stance to show proper balance. Although a relative short kata, it has many difficulty factors that make for a challenging kata to perform.
Such as:
1.cross wing-hidden fist
2.chain punch
3triple hops
4.upward/downward simultaneous open hand blocks in crane stance
5. "hidden hand" knife hand/spear hand
6.triple front two knuckle punches
7.inside crescent kick w/ sandwiching palm to kneeling position [running man stance/close kneel/unicorn stance] w/F.2.K
8.U- punch [taught in "destructive Twins" for those of you from EPAK]
9. chain hands to hidden hand position.
When done correctly, the form is a truly beautiful kata and it's always been one of my favorite forms that I still perform and it's simply stated, a form that really sticks out as being "different" from the rest of the curriculum. In a phone call I had with Walter Godin in 1998 he mentioned that it he who "added" that particuler kata into the Karazenpo goshinjutsu system. I'm satill researching that information.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

[KENPOJOE]

Hi folks,
BTW, does anyone know what happened to "rachel" who was studying "Shaolin Kempo" in Conn.? I thought she got her black belt but wasn't sure...
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE

[marlon]

Hello Kenpojoe,
hope all is well. I have not heard the term chain punch, could ou explain it, please? BTW the form was taught to me very much as you described by Elizabeth Gilberg who learnedit from Cal Carozzi i think...and i continue to teach it this way.
Respectfully,
Marlon

[CTKempo Todd]

Hi KenpoJoe,

I have heard alot about you. (Don't worry all good) from Jesse Dwyer and Matt Barnes..

As far as Stature/Statue of the Crane I learned it as Statue and my instructor Prof Ingargiola calls is Stature..Either way, its the same form.

Agreed with everything you said in the form. Sometimes I watch it being performed and is seems people are just hopping around without really showing or understanding what they are doing.

Like Marlon, I never heard the term chain punch, but in thinking about the form I assume you mean the multiple instances where 3 punches are thrown in succession. (Hopefully you'll confirm)

I am hoping to meet you at East Meets West Seminar this month.

Thanks
Todd Guay
CT Kempo

[KENPOJOE]

Hi KenpoJoe,

I have heard alot about you. (Don't worry all good) from Jesse Dwyer and Matt Barnes..

As far as Stature/Statue of the Crane I learned it as Statue and my instructor Prof Ingargiola calls is Stature..Either way, its the same form.

Agreed with everything you said in the form. Sometimes I watch it being performed and is seems people are just hopping around without really showing or understanding what they are doing.

Like Marlon, I never heard the term chain punch, but in thinking about the form I assume you mean the multiple instances where 3 punches are thrown in succession. (Hopefully you'll confirm)

I am hoping to meet you at East Meets West Seminar this month.

Thanks
Todd Guay
CT Kempo

Hi folks!
Dear Todd,
Nice to hear from you! Glad to know that Jesse & Matt speak kindly of me! Glad you originally learned it as "Statue"! Are you sure that Prof. Ingargiola pronounces it "Stature"? I'll ask him next time I see him [which ipresume will be later this month at the seminar in mass.]. To answer yours and marlon's question: A chain punch is a term used in kung fu circles to describe a simultaneous lead hand outward block [vertical outward for the EPAK folks] WITH a rear HAND front two knuckle punch ["Reverse Punch"]. If you look at a couple of our forms in the Karazenpo/Kenpo Karate/Shaolin Kempo lineage,you will see this technique applied with one side then the other side. If you look closely, you will see that the 3 dimensional pattern of the 2 arms moving will form the shape of an entwining chain. Hence the name. Several southern kung fu systems use this action [hung gar is the most notable of these]. If you look at Statue of the crane you will also see "chain hands" in regards to the open hand chop/spear hand series. Also, the same chain punch action is used in the EPAK forms short and long form 2 as well.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

[CTKempo Todd]

Hi folks!
Dear Todd,
Nice to hear from you! Glad to know that Jesse & Matt speak kindly of me! Glad you originally learned it as "Statue"! Are you sure that Prof. Ingargiola pronounces it "Stature"? I'll ask him next time I see him [which ipresume will be later this month at the seminar in mass.]. To answer yours and marlon's question: A chain punch is a term used in kung fu circles to describe a simultaneous lead hand outward block [vertical outward for the EPAK folks] WITH a rear HAND front two knuckle punch ["Reverse Punch"]. If you look at a couple of our forms in the Karazenpo/Kenpo Karate/Shaolin Kempo lineage,you will see this technique applied with one side then the other side. If you look closely, you will see that the 3 dimensional pattern of the 2 arms moving will form the shape of an entwining chain. Hence the name. Several southern kung fu systems use this action [hung gar is the most notable of these]. If you look at Statue of the crane you will also see "chain hands" in regards to the open hand chop/spear hand series. Also, the same chain punch action is used in the EPAK forms short and long form 2 as well.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

Ok Thanks..The chain punch makes sense (Launched from the cup and saucer)

Prof Ingargiola indicated in an email to me this morning that he will be attending the East/West Seminar as I see you are. Please introduce yourself if I don't notice you first. (CT Kempo is on my logo/Gi/patch)

As far as Prof I, if you go to his website, (www.shaolinkempo.com (http://www.shaolinkempo.com)) and look at his Blue belt requirements you'll see it listed as Stature.

I'd like to work with you in the future if possible.

[marlon]

Thanks for the info Kenpojoe,
i missed you last time in Lowell, i hope to meet with you in person finally at the east meets west. Perhaps i can show you Staute and you can pick apart where i can improve
Be well
Respectfully,
Marlon


Hi folks!
Dear Todd,
Nice to hear from you! Glad to know that Jesse & Matt speak kindly of me! Glad you originally learned it as "Statue"! Are you sure that Prof. Ingargiola pronounces it "Stature"? I'll ask him next time I see him [which ipresume will be later this month at the seminar in mass.]. To answer yours and marlon's question: A chain punch is a term used in kung fu circles to describe a simultaneous lead hand outward block [vertical outward for the EPAK folks] WITH a rear HAND front two knuckle punch ["Reverse Punch"]. If you look at a couple of our forms in the Karazenpo/Kenpo Karate/Shaolin Kempo lineage,you will see this technique applied with one side then the other side. If you look closely, you will see that the 3 dimensional pattern of the 2 arms moving will form the shape of an entwining chain. Hence the name. Several southern kung fu systems use this action [hung gar is the most notable of these]. If you look at Statue of the crane you will also see "chain hands" in regards to the open hand chop/spear hand series. Also, the same chain punch action is used in the EPAK forms short and long form 2 as well.
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

[melj7077]

Statue of the Crane used to be a favorite form of mine. It apparently derives from the kata Rohai (Vision of White Heron is the translation I have). I do see similiarities. Sometimes Rohai is called Matsumora Rohai denoting a particular version. If you want to see the form Rohai go to www.shitokai.com/movies (http://www.shitokai.com/movies).

[bill007]

Statue of the Crane used to be a favorite form of mine. It apparently derives from the kata Rohai (Vision of White Heron is the translation I have). I do see similiarities. Sometimes Rohai is called Matsumora Rohai denoting a particular version. If you want to see the form Rohai go to www.shitokai.com/movies. (http://www.shitokai.com/movies.)

I can't see the video it's says, not authorized to view this page bla bla bla... do you have another link?

Bill

[crushing]

I can't see the video it's says, not authorized to view this page bla bla bla... do you have another link?

Bill

Bill,

I got the same thing. Please try this link http://www.shitokai.com/movies/movies.php

[bill007]

Bill,

I got the same thing. Please try this link http://www.shitokai.com/movies/movies.php

Thanks, nice to see the original form.

[shodan_spike]

I know STATUE of the Crane (well, that's how it was always said in my studio), but our student manual listed it as Stature of the Crane....interesting.

I am a former USSD student, so I don't know how different it is from other sub-systems, but I've heard it's a bit different.

I learned the form many years ago and remember it for the most part, especially the jumping and multiple punches parts of it...overall a very cool form and one of my favorites, looking back.

If you ever learn this form, don't forget it! It may be a good form to use in a demo or competition...

[Gentle Fist]

Bill,

I got the same thing. Please try this link http://www.shitokai.com/movies/movies.php

Some clean looking forms on there.

[Gufbal1982]

If you can get a copy of the USSD Student Manual it's in there under the green belt requirements, plus I'm almost positive you can it a copy of it on E-bay by purchasing the green belt video...or, get the Fred Villari belt requirements DVD set...it's on there as well.

[SK101]

United Studios of Self Defense has a paperback handbook out that has this form amongst others, broken down pretty clearly and easy to learn. The book is not cheap though. Nick Cerio's Kenpo also has the NCK version in their 'Master's Text', again, it's done pretty well and easy to pick up. NCK version has been altered from Shaolin Kempo but still pretty close. Both have been radically altered from Rohai but the commonality with the Okinawan original is sequences of threes. Respectfully, Professor Joe Shuras

Check for the USSD manual on Ebay. It comes up often, but I don't know what people usually ask for it.

[Jdokan]

Hello Kenpojoe,
hope all is well. I have not heard the term chain punch, could ou explain it, please? BTW the form was taught to me very much as you described by Elizabeth Gilberg who learnedit from Cal Carozzi i think...and i continue to teach it this way.
Respectfully,
Marlon
Marlon I have read many posts recently (being new here) & finally I see a very familiar name...Liz...Liz and I worked out many nights, back in the old Peabody days...As I interpret this...she was your instructor??? She was a good black belt you were lucky to train with her.....Anyways I have seen this form morph over the years...Great form no matter how it is done...

[marlon]

Marlon I have read many posts recently (being new here) & finally I see a very familiar name...Liz...Liz and I worked out many nights, back in the old Peabody days...As I interpret this...she was your instructor??? She was a good black belt you were lucky to train with her.....Anyways I have seen this form morph over the years...Great form no matter how it is done...

Yes she was a great instructor... my first sk instructor. tough as nails.she does not teach anymore. Actually, she is the one who taught me the form.

Marlon

[Jdokan]

We've taken the original form that I learned back in the "old" USSD days that I got at green belt which was a very flowy (SP??) flashy form. Thought of as a balance learning form that was great to do for a tournament and have modified it into a fighting form. We've shorten the time spent jumping from high leggy type jumps into lower faster type movements...Where we used to be in a side stance turned at a right angle to the opponent to a slightly angled position and incorporated it into an "Angry Crane"...(Sorry that's how I visualize it). I still use/teach the hidden hand postures, etc...just modified some of the angles. There are more hand strikes now than when I learned it but that's ok...They fit, make sense and don't distract from the forms overall flow....

[sunfuki]

im looking for that book

anyone got for sell i am a buyer please contact me at karatesunfuki@live.ca

thank you

[Sandanchris]

Any kempo students know statue of the crane? I looked under search here and found nothing.

I have that form but dont practice it much, I always found it odd to teach it at Blue/Green level rather than brown. I would much rather teach the two man fist set.

It has its value in the system. Is there anything in particular I can help you with?