Why do some female martial artists dislike sparring?

[Ceicei]

I enjoy sparring very much and would jump at the chance to do so. What puzzles me is that some female martial artists dislike sparring, and some will go to lengths to avoid it. Why? [Yes, I am a female.]

Isn't the ability to at least spar help in some degree with mental readiness for a self defense against an attack? I would think for that purpose, sparring would be a welcome challenge.

- Ceicei

[progressivetactics]

Yes...it does seem true....NOT ALL FEMALES but many are reluctant.
I think there is a variety of reasons...more men then women, so possible injury.
I think the fact they have been raised in less physical confrontation ideas.....so sparring is against many years of "training"
I think many people have trouble pushing themselves to do things that are good for them (eating right, working out, etc.)...so if they can get out of potential injury, pain, suffering, etc....they will avoid it, even in class (this is not only women....people in general)
I agree that sparring would help prepare the mind to some degree incase of a 'real attack'.....but that may conjure up some real fear about their own inability.....again, not women....people.

just my thoughts on this...i could be wrong.

[Touch Of Death]

I don't know what it is but females generaly won't tolerate getting hit, although males can be made to even like it. Perhaps it is a biological alarm system in their brain that makes them "feel" as if excessive contact is a bad thing and should be avoided when possible. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but that don't mean there ain't a rule. I am only speaking as a person who was involved in a school that couldn't keep a female past blue belt until we got the idea to stop hurting everybody male or female. Now we have just as many females as males reaching higher ranks but it ain't like it used to be. I miss hurting people but I don't miss getting hurt. I'm glad the classes retain more females because they are half the population and we literaly have more than twice the students we used to and they aren't leaving because they are afraid to get hurt. As a training tool I would have females work controled sparring drills. As they become more relaxed with controling distance and dodging punches they know are coming, you can work them up to an uncontroled situation. Don't rush it or their gone.

[jukado1]

1. men have a mind set thats more open to fighting, they believe its what men do.
2. sparring training is taught all wrong, taking some one and having them do karate basics, ie. step punch, high block, kata, do not begin to teach someone how to spar, as touch "o" death stated, students should be shown drills relating to sparring, not karate.

[lvwhitebir]

Originally posted by jukado1
1. men have a mind set thats more open to fighting, they believe its what men do.
2. sparring training is taught all wrong, taking some one and having them do karate basics, ie. step punch, high block, kata, do not begin to teach someone how to spar, as touch "o" death stated, students should be shown drills relating to sparring, not karate.

In my school it's probably more the first than the second. We do a lot of sparring drills, trying to get students to go into the contact class. Women are taught from birth not to hit. Most people just say "boys will be boys."

I've left contact sparring optional up to Purple belt. Very few of the women I have spar. One that doesn't, a psychologist, believes that we're just idiot brutes because we enjoy it. She's even talking about moving on because it's now required of her. So sad...

WhiteBirch

[Disco]

There are two different schools of thought on this subject.

There are those that believe that sparring is a necessary tool for training and those that feel sparring is a total waste of time.
I am somewhere in the middle leaning to the later. Schools that I have been involved with had a different problem. In the commerical school, it was the higher ranking females that liked to spar and compete. We lost more female students because of them. They were told over and over to go easy with new females but I guess once that switch is turned on theres no reverse. The guys on the other hand had no problem holding back. It's just that inherient mindset. There is a saying that you fight as you train. If you have a sparring mindset, then that's what you'll revert to under pressure. If you train for self defense than that's what you'll also revert to under pressure. There is a difference.
When we made sparring totally optional, thats when we kept more students. We had people get hurt during self defense drills and practice, but they were willing / understanding to accept that because they realized the implications and the inflictions were accidental as opposed to sparring where it was intentional.

Sparring has it's place. You do learn from sparring, but many schools take it to far and make it the end all. I rather keep a student and have them learn self defense than have a window full of trophies because we are a good fighting / sparring school.
I've seen to many people, both male and female, quit because they got hurt in the formative stages of their training. Everybody looses this way.
:asian:

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I am only speaking as a person who was involved in a school that couldn't keep a female past blue belt until we got the idea to stop hurting everybody male or female.

Now we have just as many females as males reaching higher ranks but it ain't like it used to be. I miss hurting people but I don't miss getting hurt. I'm glad the classes retain more females because they are half the population and we literaly have more than twice the students we used to and they aren't leaving because they are afraid to get hurt.

As a training tool I would have females work controled sparring drills. As they become more relaxed with controling distance and dodging punches they know are coming, you can work them up to an uncontroled situation. Don't rush it or their gone.

"...the idea is to stop hurting everybody...." I don't think the GOAL of sparring is to hurt.
If it is, then that's the wrong purpose.

Injuries and pain can and do happen as a result of errors or blows that are too hard. We cannot fully eliminate pain as life does mete its share in things happening, especially the reality out on the street and/or home. But sparring shouldn't be focused on hurting, but rather on making efficient strikes and good blocks. Good sparring should be quick, compact, and in control to minimize injuries.

- Ceicei

[kkbb]

We have found a real lack of interest in our ADULT female students in sparring. When asked, the common response was "it makes me nervous" or "scared". I did find out that response was in reaction to watching the higher ranks really go at it. Obviously there are times when there was is a real lack of control. Understandabley, these people are nervous because of the thought of being hurt. So in response we made sparring optional, but to test for black they would have to spar. What we found is that the people...(particuarly the ladies) that expressed reservations about sparring have quit anyway!... The higher the rank they achieved, the higher level of contact in the self defenses. Therefore they could not tolerate it regardless.

The main reason(s) we do point sparring is for cardio, agility, speed, and the odd time, what it is like to really get hit! Kenpo self defenses are performed statically.... not always the best way to train. Sparring teaches people to read their opponent. In other words... I can see and predict incoming strikes (kick or punch, etc..)

I think that everyone has to be reminded that they are learning the "Martial Arts". They are not learning crappy tae-bo, or some other form of bogus quasy punch and kick excersie thing.
Not everyone can be a black belt! Male or female!

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Disco
it was the higher ranking females that liked to spar and compete. We lost more female students because of them. They were told over and over to go easy with new females but I guess once that switch is turned on theres no reverse. The guys on the other hand had no problem holding back. It's just that inherient mindset.

There is a saying that you fight as you train. If you have a sparring mindset, then that's what you'll revert to under pressure. If you train for self defense than that's what you'll also revert to under pressure. There is a difference.
:asian:

Ummm.... Are you saying females who like to spar hit too hard? When you said females can't seem to hold back or there's "no reverse", you make it sound like females are more bloodthirsty than males. Males who apparently have "no problem holding back"....

Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

- Ceicei

[KenpoGirl]

Females are usually conditioned not to hit and as a result also have a fear/nervousness of being hit.

When I first started training I was very nervous about hitting anything, eventually I got past that and could pound the bags and pads with the best of them. So eventually when I started sparring I was more nervous about being hit. Unfortunately my introduction to sparring was a baptism of fire, as I was paired up with a couple 1st Browns that didn't have a lot of control (this is my previous instructors school, not my current), if they held back on their punches I didn't really notice. I think most women would have stopped sparring at that point, luckily I stuck with it.

In regards to trained female martial artist scaring new students, I can see that. Recently 4 new women joined, one of them thought I was doing some drills (not sparring) with her too hard and asked the instructor to ask me to be more "gentle" the other 3 females that were there at the time disagreed and said that I was showing them the right way to do it and I wasn't going to excess. So some people just have a higher tollerance then others I guess. That lady hasn't left yet and I am careful not to be as "enthusiastic" with her as I am for the other ladies.

Dot
:asian:

[Disco]

I can only review and comment on what I have actually encountered. In my case, yes the ladies were very aggressive. The times that I sparred with them I told them to back off some. It fell on deaf ears. It got to the point where not many people would spar with them, including the black belts. By the way, the ladies in question (3) were all black belts. One was a state champ and placed in nationals in trying for the olympics. She was better than the other two in trying to hold back but there were times that she would get a little to aggressive also.

Men in general, the operative word is "general", have it ingrained not to hit women. So when they spar they have the tendency to go soft. There is no need, just because you have some protective gear on, to go full bore on somebody. Perhaps that is the problem for some people, the protective gear. They think that because they are wearing it, it gives them license to hit hard. I have seen many people get hurt badly not only in the school but also in competition. The protective gear is not all that protective and it only covers certain areas. It's quite easy to miss the protected areas when going all out. People in general do not realize the damage that can be done to the human body by these hits. Sparring unto itself is just a tool in training. One can become accomplished without the use of that tool.
:asian:

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Disco
I can only review and comment on what I have actually encountered. In my case, yes the ladies were very aggressive. The times that I sparred with them I told them to back off some. It fell on deaf ears. It got to the point where not many people would spar with them, including the black belts. By the way, the ladies in question (3) were all black belts.

There is no need, just because you have some protective gear on, to go full bore on somebody. Perhaps that is the problem for some people, the protective gear. They think that because they are wearing it, it gives them license to hit hard.

The protective gear is not all that protective and it only covers certain areas. It's quite easy to miss the protected areas when going all out. People in general do not realize the damage that can be done to the human body.
:asian:

I hear you, Disco. You've made some good points I'm now considering....

I enjoy sparring and am fairly aggressive. All my sparring partners have been male. I have never gone maximum power and do not see the need to do so. However, even though I know I can get hurt even with protective gear on (and have gotten some minor injuries that were accidental), I will have to concede with you I probably would not have been as hard if I wasn't wearing the gear.

I have never been told I'm "hitting too hard". The most I've been told is to "slow down" and "use more control". I don't know if that is an indirect way of saying I might indeed be overdoing it. [If it is, why not just come right out and say it in plain English?]

Some of my male sparring partners really do hit quite hard and that sometimes make me react in hitting back just as hard, but perhaps not as in control as I should be. It's almost as if some of them do it on purpose just to get a rise out of me. How do I deal with that?

- Ceicei

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Ceicei
"...the idea is to stop hurting everybody...." I don't think the GOAL of sparring is to hurt.
If it is, then that's the wrong purpose.

Injuries and pain can and do happen as a result of errors or blows that are too hard. We cannot fully eliminate pain as life does mete its share in things happening, especially the reality out on the street and/or home. But sparring shouldn't be focused on hurting, but rather on making efficient strikes and good blocks. Good sparring should be quick, compact, and in control to minimize injuries.

- Ceicei
I don't think you would have liked our school in the ealy eighties.
Sean

[Disco]

Your kind of caught in a cross current. Because you are aggressive, you are more than likely giving off a mixed signal. Most guys are not intune to understand the give and take. The automaticly raise their level of power when you tag them. They don't understand that you are trying to be assertive with your training but not trying to be overpowering. It's a flaw within the male gender. They will or should eventually overcome this drawback as they progress in rank. You should find that in the black belt ranks, control should be the operative guideline. Operative word being "should".

To overcome the male power, the only thing you can do is use your mouth. Just tell them before you start sparring, "Now remember I'm not as strong as you so don't go trying to blast me"
If I should hit you a good one, I'm not at the level where I have speed and control yet, so be nice..........and work with me. You'd be surprised at how good this verbal technique works. Give it a try and let us know how it goes.
:asian:

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I don't think you would have liked our school in the ealy eighties.
Sean

Was it really that bad for you? I started in 1985, but then again, because I was fairly new to martial arts, I wasn't as aggressive then as I am now. Nevertheless, I did well enough in a tournament in sparring division a year later to bring home 3rd place. My instructor back then did not encourage hard hitting and had me rely heavily on defensive moves with a few good light point-scoring kicks.

I then had to leave the school (it was affliated to the university) and had trouble finding another good school. The school [prior to the one I am in now] encouraged very hard sparring (basically throw you into the mat) and the only way to "survive" it was to learn to spar back hard. Needless to say, I didn't stay for more than a few years as I disagreed with its basic training teaching style.

From what Disco said, it looks like I may have picked up a few bad habits. I don't think I'm one of these female martial artists that are "too agressive", but I'm not so sure anymore.

I do know I feel a little impatient sometimes when I see some other females complaining about sparring, even if some of them may never have done it before. They usually also are these same students who barely touch when doing regular karate technique drills. It sometimes make me wonder why they are in martial arts if they will not at least make firm moves when with a partner.
- Ceicei

[gojukylie]

I am a female studying Karate and one thing I have noticed about it, especially in the past 12 months, is that you go through stages of disliking and loving certain things. About 2 months ago when training hard for my Shodan grading, I had a real dislike for sparring. It got to the stage that I avoided it. I wouldn't say that it was because I was afraid of it, more so than the fact that I couldn't get anything to work. The ideas I carried into my Kumite were the last ones I used. :confused: . Since the grading I stopped worrying about it and just did it. I think that is the key. Practice your basics and try not to pre-empt what you want to do. I am now back to where I was and sparring better than before. I believe it is one of the hurdles all martial artists go through. The boulder that got in your way soon becomes the stepping stone you stand on that will make you closer to your goal.:asian:

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by gojukylie
. About 2 months ago when training hard for my Shodan grading, I had a real dislike for sparring. It got to the stage that I avoided it. I wouldn't say that it was because I was afraid of it, more so than the fact that I couldn't get anything to work. The ideas I carried into my Kumite were the last ones I used. :confused: :asian:

You mean you didn't like sparring because you were being tested for it?

What did you mean, you could not get anything to work? What ideas did you have were the last ones used? How did that mess up with your sparring? :confused:

- Ceicei

[gojukylie]

In reply to your question, I always enjoyed sparring in class. I found that I could read people, and use a good variety of techniques. We stopped doing kumite for a while and I focused on basics and Kata. When I started training for my black belt grading, I was practicing after class with a few nidans and a sandan. :eek:

I started getting injured a lot and they started to shut my kicks down. In doing so I became tentative and got even more hurt. They were instructing me to use different ideas and I became un-natural. It wasn't me anymore. Eventually I lost my confidence and started to dislike it. :mad: Later I appreciated their words.

It was after my grading when I decided to break down my kumite and work at it. It only took a few days and I was using techniques that broke them down. That is the key. If they find a weekness, find one of theirs. My instructor told me something that made a big difference, Hold Your Own. Don't always move back. Move into them and cramp their style. I feel much better now.:D

[gojukylie]

Originally posted by Ceicei
You mean you didn't like sparring because you were being tested for it?

What did you mean, you could not get anything to work? What ideas did you have were the last ones used? How did that mess up with your sparring? :confused:

- Ceicei :)

:) I noticed you study Kenpo. For a while too. What is your favourite aspect? Do you like sparring?:)

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Disco
Your kind of caught in a cross current. Because you are aggressive, you are more than likely giving off a mixed signal. Most guys are not intune to understand the give and take. The automaticly raise their level of power when you tag them. They don't understand that you are trying to be assertive with your training but not trying to be overpowering. It's a flaw within the male gender.

Disco,

So would it work in reverse if, those males who hit hard, I respond with a softer hit? They would hit less hard?
:boing2:



To overcome the male power, the only thing you can do is use your mouth. Just tell them before you start sparring, "Now remember I'm not as strong as you so don't go trying to blast me. If I should hit you a good one, I'm not at the level where I have speed and control yet, so be nice..........and work with me." You'd be surprised at how good this verbal technique works. Give it a try and let us know how it goes.
:asian:

I will try that and see what happens. I will be sparring again tonight.
:D

- Ceicei

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by gojukylie
:)

:) I noticed you study Kenpo. For a while too. What is your favourite aspect? Do you like sparring?:)


I like all of Kenpo. I really enjoy sparring very much!

:boxing:

- Ceicei

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by gojukylie
Hold Your Own. Don't always move back. Move into them and cramp their style. :D


Good advice. Cramp their style. I should try doing that too. :)

- Ceicei

[gojukylie]

Originally posted by Ceicei
Good advice. Cramp their style. I should try doing that too. :)

- Ceicei

I don't know if you can answer this question, but I have been sparring with someone who is an ex body-builder, and he holds a 2nd dan. His techniques are very hard and when he uses his techniques, it's like blocking rock. I get bruised alot and I don't admit it to him, but it hurts like hell. Do you have any advice on sparring someone like this?

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by gojukylie
I don't know if you can answer this question, but I have been sparring with someone who is an ex body-builder, and he holds a 2nd dan. His techniques are very hard and when he uses his techniques, it's like blocking rock. I get bruised alot and I don't admit it to him, but it hurts like hell. Do you have any advice on sparring someone like this?

Ummm. That's the same problem I'm having too... The male I am sparring against who hits me hard is currently a body builder--all muscle. Classical physique just like you see in those body building mags and contests. I hear you about that "rock". Some of my bruises are pretty bad--sometimes up to 3-4 inches. :( The thing is, he is only a green belt. He is the one that seem to hit harder each time I hit him.

The other males (green and brown belts) don't do quite as hard as he does, but they aren't gentle. I'm currently a purple belt.

Maybe I'm stubborn, but I refuse to quit. :mad: Maybe I'm trying too hard to hold my own against them.

Perhaps Disco or Touch'o'Death or others may have some advice.... :shrug:

- Ceicei

[Ceicei]

I realize my initial question to all this was to why some female martial artists don't like sparring, even if they've never done it.

After going through this thread conversing with others, I have to conclude they are right. Females ARE scared of being hurt, and the higher belts do tend to spar pretty hard. They see this and that makes it difficult for them to go into sparring.

This brings to a different problem: How do we get the higher belts to tone down their sparring?

Nevertheless, I still love to spar. I think its because my early experiences were very good and not as hurtful. It is not until I got to a higher rank that the sparring with male martial artists do hurt more.

- Ceicei

[gojukylie]

Ceicei,

Thanks for your response. Knowing that you know what I'm talking about helps. I'll see what others come up with. Ta.:D

[Disco]

Ladies your not alone. Hard blocks usually wind up getting bruised. I've had more than my share over the years. So what did I do? I stopped hard blocking. I went into more redirecting and wrapping type blocks. Throws your opponent off balance and messes up their technique. The only problem with these blocks is that you have to adjust the techniques your trying to do. It's not all that hard to adjust, just takes a little practice. Sure beats trying to beat up a tree. Kenpo, like many hard styles kind of forces you into the hard blocking arena. There's nothing that says you can't adjust to suit your body and health.

Aside from going to "soft blocks", I stopped playing the game. Staying in front like a boxer and taking what was given. I started more angular movements which really opened up the opponent. The only problem with these new found targets is that I could'nt attack them because we were just training. But you could readily see your new targets and you can also readily see the damage you could be doing. Hope this helps.......
:asian:

[gojukylie]

Disco.


Thanks for the post. Many questions have been answered reading your reply. I have been working on the angles and using more softer blocks, so I might be on the right track. I think that footwork would be my main goal at the moment because from there I can position myself to use these soft blocks properly. Thanks guys.;)

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Ceicei
Ummm. That's the same problem I'm having too... The male I am sparring against who hits me hard is currently a body builder--all muscle. Classical physique just like you see in those body building mags and contests. I hear you about that "rock". Some of my bruises are pretty bad--sometimes up to 3-4 inches. :( The thing is, he is only a green belt. He is the one that seem to hit harder each time I hit him.

The other males (green and brown belts) don't do quite as hard as he does, but they aren't gentle. I'm currently a purple belt.

Maybe I'm stubborn, but I refuse to quit. :mad: Maybe I'm trying too hard to hold my own against them.

Perhaps Disco or Touch'o'Death or others may have some advice.... :shrug:

- Ceicei
Well my take on the issue is that the body builder you have described has contact issues. My recomendation is that the instructor need to set up a sparring session to where said body builder is never allowed to hit back (have him control distance or something) As he learns to accept your punches he will realize (hopefully) that the escalation is his problem (emotional fitness) and perhaps when he learns to control his power, he could possibly be looking at BROWN belt. If its not possible to micro focus this guy, I would just avoid sparring that individual.
Sean

[tkdcanada]

Cecei,

Keep trying to hold your own. Bruises will heal and you're in a controlled situation so chances are your injuries won't be much worse than that anyway. I think in the long run, sparring against someone like this will make you better able to take the hits. Maybe he doesn't realize just how hard he's hitting and if it's really bad, you could just ask him to lighten it a bit, but personally, I like to try to take whatever comes my way when sparring. Just my opinion as another woman.

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by tkdcanada

I think in the long run, sparring against someone like this will make you better able to take the hits. Maybe he doesn't realize just how hard he's hitting and if it's really bad, you could just ask him to lighten it a bit, but personally, I like to try to take whatever comes my way when sparring.

Well, I WILL take the hits as I don't have any desire to wimp out. But you're right, he might not realize how hard, or perhaps he thinks I actually enjoy being hit. Sometimes I feel like being tossed to the sharks when sparring with him. :jaws:

- Ceicei

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Disco
Your kind of caught in a cross current. Because you are aggressive, you are more than likely giving off a mixed signal.

To overcome the male power, the only thing you can do is use your mouth. Just tell them before you start sparring, "Now remember I'm not as strong as you so don't go trying to blast me. If I should hit you a good one, I'm not at the level where I have speed and control yet, so be nice..........and work with me." You'd be surprised at how good this verbal technique works. Give it a try and let us know how it goes.
:asian:

Disco,

I tried this last night, and he actually was quite nice about it. He still did hit, but not with the force he previously used. I can still feel him hitting quite firmly, but these don't hurt any more. He sometimes did slip up, but made a conscious attempt to rein in. He is actually becoming a human being... :)

It helps to have the instructor intervene also.

I'd like to thank you for pointing out the obvious--I should have asked him earlier to play nicer. Some males don't always do that, and I shouldn't have assumed he wouldn't.

- Ceicei

[Disco]

I always try to avoid Murphy's Law if I can. Taking really hard shots, male or female, is inviting disaster. You can count on being injured and out for possibly months if someone hits you the wrong way/place full bore. That's why I don't tap dance in the minefield.:)

[gojukylie]

I was sparring this morning & I started cramping some guys up. It shut them down. I actually switched to the controller. After thinking about the last few posts, to really do well in sparring, you need to feed your apponent false information. Make them feel comfortable and then take them when they get in their comfort zone. Variation is really important. The Sensei at class today suggested something that you guys might like. Think when you are sparring, do you go head, head, stom. head, stomach? Do you fall into a predictable pattern? Shake it up a little. Stay high longer and then throw a mid section. Stay low and keep low longer. Stay lineal then work angles. Majority kicks then a punch and Visa Versa. Stay back then close the distance for longer periods.

The thought came from when I defend, I block head, head, stomach. I almost knew what was coming. Don't fall into that pattern as an attacker. Think about it if you fall into this trap. Give it a go.:) This might help against bigger guys. Make them work for it.:p

[KenpoTess]

Thoughts?

[Kacey]

Several possibilities:


It's not feminine (I don't ascribe to this, by the way - but I've heard it often: "I can't believe you do TKD - does that mean you have to fight? What if it's a man?!?!")
Fear (of men, of fighting, of injury, etc.)
Get tired of being treated differently than the men simply because of an uncontrollable factor - gender - at that point, why bother?
Like other aspects of the art(s) better

[phlaw]

I enjoy sparring very much and would jump at the chance to do so. What puzzles me is that some female martial artists dislike sparring, and some will go to lengths to avoid it. Why? [Yes, I am a female.]

- Ceicei

You also have to realize that some men also don't enjoy sparring. I have trained in many schools and there are always students (male & female) that don't like to spar.

[boricuatkd]

Several possibilities:

It's not feminine (I don't ascribe to this, by the way - but I've heard it often: "I can't believe you do TKD - does that mean you have to fight? What if it's a man?!?!")
Fear (of men, of fighting, of injury, etc.)
Get tired of being treated differently than the men simply because of an uncontrollable factor - gender - at that point, why bother?
Like other aspects of the art(s) better
In regards to the first point - I get this alot. In fact, during my confernce period the other day, I was discussing a match I had at my last competition when one o the other teachers turned and said "wow, you fight. I didn't know that. I knew you had a tkd school but I didn't know you actually did any of that stuff. That explains alot." I guess that fact that i have pictures with my kids at competions in matches all over my classroom was not a dead give away.
Any way back to the thread- I see alot of relectance with women sparring. I really do enjoy sparring. I always end up sparring with the guys. Even at competitions you see that they are relectant to spar. I mean, me personally I am not going to pay 90 bucks to compete and just do poomses.

[tkd_jen]

When I first started TKD I was afraid to spar. I had some knee issues (torn ACL and medial meniscus right knee, dislocated patella left knee). I thought I was afraid of injuring my knees to the point of surgery or ending my training all together. A while ago I was talking with my instructor about this. She convinved me to enter a "mini-tourney" our association held. I was nervous for sure! I fought 3 girls and won all my matches (1 in OT). I realized i wasn't afrid of my knees. I was afraid of the unknown.

[RachelK]

I realized i wasn't afrid of my knees. I was afraid of the unknown.
Great post, very inspiring. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Best,
Rachel

[stickarts]

I instructed an all women's sparring group for awhile and the group did really well. They seemed to enjoy sparring other women. Only a few also sparred with men. They enjoyed working more on technique and not getting into to rockem' sockem' robot mode like some of the men did! :0)
It was a pleasure to teach and the women were great.

[matt.m]

I have known women that would shy away from sparring and would do "2 techniques forward with no contact" kind of drills but that is it. I have also known women that will get in your face brutal. It is up to the person. Men are really no different. When I was younger I would spar, up in your face. Now with a bad back and two leg braces it is the "2 techniques forward with no contact" for me.

[donna]

I find sparring hard as it brings up bad memories of past beatings. It is hard to overcome that emotional mental block .This is why I do it to learn how to defend myself. I dont enjoy sparring.

[Eternal Beginner]

I've always enjoyed sparring if I felt I was in a controlled, mature environment. I don't like sparring where someone has something to prove and being dominant is their only goal.

Sparring in grappling for me is far preferable to sparring in stand-up. Still haven't quite figured out why, something for me to ruminate on I guess.:idunno:

[IcemanSK]

I've noticed that a lot of women don't like sparing at first because they were socialized to "not hit other people." Whereas, guys deal with one another like this more easily. But I also noticed that some women (who don't have issues of abuse in their background) really take to it with relish once they get over that social stigma. I've trained w/ a few women who enjoy it so much, it scares me a bit.

This topic brings up why it's so important for instructors to be sensitive to what issues students come to the mat with. A lot of instructors teach because of their love for the arts. Some forget, (or couldn't fathom) why anyone might have a hard time (mentally or emotionally) getting over a hurdle like sparing.

My 2 cents.

[stickarts]

Yup. Its very important to build a rapport with students and make them feel comfortable. Some students have told me that hearing horror stories of people getting hurt at other schools made them worry about trying sparring when they first joined us.
It takes awhile to gain their confidence that its more about developing skill and not about just pummeling the other person! :)

[Becca]

I'll agree that quite a lot of women have their reservations about sparring. I think it's a combination of nature and nurture with a heavy emphasis on nurture. I'm in a university club so we're still young enough to see it I guess but as a general rule the women who grew up tomboys or among big groups of guys find sparring much easier because they had a more physical upbringing.

As to the female aggressiveness I have seen it a few times. Last year we had one new girl in particular who simply had no fear and most the club would describe as vicious. On the other hand it isn't always the norm. I'm quite a hard hitter myself, our competition circuit requires it, but I'd never use my full strength behind anything. As a general rule I'll hit as hard as the other person hits me and I'll only ever tap a newbie despite how hard they hit because they lack control.

I think it's a good way to get women into sparring to be honest. The rule in our club is you tap until your opponent shows you how hard they're willing to hit. I think it makes a lot of women feel safer. We don't have any women in the club that don't spar for safety worries, one who won't because she comes from a very traditional system, but after that everyone else spars. There's a few where it isn't their cup of tea of course but everyone has something they dislike and everyone gets on with it...

[seasoned]

Because self defense is one thing and getting banged around on the sparring floor is another.

[Urban Coyote]

I'm going to throw this out there just to see what you gals and guys think of this angle on the discussion.

A lot of the discussion has been focused on why some women do not like sparring, and in many cases it seems to be a larger percentage do not like sparring than do. What about including and exploring a physiological reason? Could an enjoyment in sparing have a hormonal basis? Men on average produce a considerably larger level of testosterone in their systems than women....40 to 60 times more, and testosterone is known to effect the level of aggressiveness in an individual. Could it be the lower levels of testosterone or other 'aggression' hormones in women may have an impact on their enjoyment of sparring? Maybe the women who enjoy sparring have a naturally higher level of testosterone in their systems than those who do not?

Thoughts?

UC

[Jenna]

I'm going to throw this out there just to see what you gals and guys think of this angle on the discussion.

A lot of the discussion has been focused on why some women do not like sparring, and in many cases it seems to be a larger percentage do not like sparring than do. What about including and exploring a physiological reason? Could an enjoyment in sparing have a hormonal basis? Men on average produce a considerably larger level of testosterone in their systems than women....40 to 60 times more, and testosterone is known to effect the level of aggressiveness in an individual. Could it be the lower levels of testosterone or other 'aggression' hormones in women may have an impact on their enjoyment of sparring? Maybe the women who enjoy sparring have a naturally higher level of testosterone in their systems than those who do not?

Thoughts?

UC
I think it is likely that it is a combination of social conditioning and but moreover as you say, hormonal programming.

And but would we not expect then that if women that are keener on sparring are that way inclined because of hormonal surfeit, should they not also exhibit other symptoms of higher testosterone??

Ultimately I think that while androgen levels may impact upon a woman's predisposition to fight, that should not necessarily interfere with our *enjoyment* of that sparring -as the original post asks. Sparring in a controlled MA environment has - for me at least - as much to do with camaraderie and bonding with peers both male and female as the winning. I may not be as strong as my male counterparts and but that does not stop me from enjoying sparring with them.

I think to the OP - and which was a LONG time ago from this was posted - I would suggest that saying "some" female MAists do not like sparring could be rephrased to "some female MAists DO like sparring" which is a fairly banal statement :)

fyi *I* like sparring :) I do NOT have a beard -yet- or any other symptoms of excess testosterone!! :)

Jenna xo

[TwentyThree]

I think it is likely that it is a combination of social conditioning and but moreover as you say, hormonal programming.

And but would we not expect then that if women that are keener on sparring are that way inclined because of hormonal surfeit, should they not also exhibit other symptoms of higher testosterone??

Ultimately I think that while androgen levels may impact upon a woman's predisposition to fight, that should not necessarily interfere with our *enjoyment* of that sparring -as the original post asks. Sparring in a controlled MA environment has - for me at least - as much to do with camaraderie and bonding with peers both male and female as the winning. I may not be as strong as my male counterparts and but that does not stop me from enjoying sparring with them.

I think to the OP - and which was a LONG time ago from this was posted - I would suggest that saying "some" female MAists do not like sparring could be rephrased to "some female MAists DO like sparring" which is a fairly banal statement :)

fyi *I* like sparring :) I do NOT have a beard -yet- or any other symptoms of excess testosterone!! :)

Jenna xo

I think that it's more complex that - women and men are all individuals, and in my school, there are guys who don't enjoy sparring, either. Socialization, temperament, hormone levels, culture, personal strategy, and self-image all play a part, I suspect.

I personally have no interest in sparring toe-to-toe, unarmed kicking/punching with somebody else for any period of time. Not only do I not find this fun (stick sparring is another thing entirely :ultracool ) but I don't quite buy the argument that sparring is preparing me for a real life violent situation.

In every unarmed sparring situation I have personally witnessed in several different schools now, there are always rules, pads, etiquette, places you don't strike, and neither side is seriously trying to hurt the other. Plus, you know the fight is coming.

This is nothing like what would happen to me in real life. In real life, I'll probably be cursed at and called horrible names, I'll have my hands full and not protecting myself in any kind of guard, I'll get sucker punched or attacked from behind or the side when I least expect it, and I'll have to punch with a naked fist or wearing inappropriate and difficult to fight in shoes.

In my opinion, against a larger, stronger male (I'm a short female), my best strategy is to surprise them and hurt them enough using my martial arts skill to get loose and decrease my attractiveness as a target, and then RUN AWAY, making as much noise as I can to draw attention to myself and the attacker.

So how does sparring prepare me for a real situation of violence? If we train to miss, or to avoid certain places on the body... what happens when we get into a real violent situation? Don't we fight the way we train?

In my opinion, unarmed sparring as I've seen at my current and former MA schools is not training me for self defense or real violence. I think it's a sport (nothing wrong with that) and it's not really one I particularly enjoy. And overall, I think that sport is more appealing to males than females.

Your mileage may vary and for other people (male and female) sparring might work for you, but that's my opinion about what works for me.

(note: I've been giving thought to and researching female on female violence which I've never heard mentioned in any MA school - women initiate violence differently than men do, and usually for different reasons, and we never train for that one)

[Grendel308]

Well once in a while there is an Idiot :duh:who treats every spar like a fight to the death and hasn't figured out that if you hurt Uke you;
1. run out of training partners or
2. pissed off Uke and she rips you a new ArseHole ( and whom ever else she thinks should have mentioned to Idiot to use Care and Control when executing submissions /sparring. Like say, the the Head Instructor. :idea: )
But thats just me.

Lori

[ChingChuan]

Perhaps it also depends on the circumstances and the atmosphere of the class. I don't like it when people go all agressive on me during the training - the objective is to train, not to deliberately hurt each other. However, I don't mind training effectively (which also 'hurts' a bit sometimes) with someone whose goal is also to train. It's a bit hard to explain, but it's in their expression, the way they talk, how they execute their moves - when someone looks at me as if I'm a criminal and need to be punched real hard, I feel quite uncomfortable. It's not necessary to summon all of your agression to train effectively.

So I think that also applies to sparring. Is it a friendly sparring match or is someone just doing it to vent their agression that they can't let go otherwise?

[Golden Crane]

Let me preface this by saying I also like to spar - a lot! True, it may not be totally preparing me for a real-life "situation," but it is hopefully the closest I'll ever have to come to seeing a technique come at me in real time.

What I don't like is when folks I'm training with forget that it is TRAINING and not a "kill or be killed" situation. To me, every round shouldn't be some sort of test - and I absolutely hate when folks square off with you just to "see what you got." If we're POINT SPARRING and I'm purposely not trying to do more than tap you, then you better be exercising the same control. In class, my sensei always makes sure that the contact is appropriate, but it isn't necessarily the case in clan workouts or seminars. So I'll ask my partner nicely to dial it back a bit once, warn them the second time then gently turn up the volume if it happens a third. I know I can hit/kick hard but I'm not trying to do so when light contact is called for or when my opponent has less experience in the ring than I do. That seems like common sense to me...

I think what happens is that sometimes folks fear they'll be seen as weak or unable to take a hit if they ask for lighter contact. Sad but true...

[Fiendlover]

I enjoy sparring very much and would jump at the chance to do so. What puzzles me is that some female martial artists dislike sparring, and some will go to lengths to avoid it. Why? [Yes, I am a female.]

Isn't the ability to at least spar help in some degree with mental readiness for a self defense against an attack? I would think for that purpose, sparring would be a welcome challenge.

- Ceicei
It is for me. I LOVE sparring and have even won first place twice in my first two tournaments that I sparred in.
(And yes I am female. I know my display name or picture can't make it obvious)

[Dagney Taggert]

How on earth could anyone not LOVE sparring?? I have not run across any women who do not like sparring, but I am fortunate to study in a great school.

[bluewaveschool]

I've never had a female student not want to spar. I have a little girl that only likes to spar certain BB (the 2 female instructors), but everyone of rank likes to get the pads on and go a round.

[Golden Crane]

How on earth could anyone not LOVE sparring??

There are a bevy of reasons a woman - especially one who is not from an "I wrestle with my brothers all the time" background or is used to being hit (an only child like me, for instance) would not love sparring. Many have been given already in the thread. Re-read (or read it if you haven't yet) for more info. The quality of the school could have little or everything to do with it. It's more of an internal thing, not an instructor/school thing...

[Grendel308]

I will clarify that I differentiate between "rolling" and Tai boxing "sparring". I am pretty much happy to roll with just about anyone as I trust myself and other grapplers for the most part, except the 18 year old guys with kick-ass-an-takin-names 'tudes. But I think I have that all worked out after the last Idiot went too hard. I have rolled with the regular guys when I had cracked ribs and was fine. It seems with the rise in popularity of MMA there are more Tweekers showing up to become Bad-ass tough guys. Shame.

Boxing on the other hand is a problem for me and I Loath, Loath, Loath sparring. Body shots don't even register, they just get me mad and I come forward but I can't stand getting hit in the face. I only trust a very few people to spar with. All are exceptional strikers ( compete at or close to pro level) with a ton of control that I have a personal relationship with. These guys can tap me lightly anywhere at any time to in order to instruct and block any shot no matter how hard I kick or throw. They have Nothing to prove so they are sweet and gentle in the extreem.

but striking also seems to attract the majority of the Ultimate Fighter wannna-bees. They all want to throw with as much power as they can, as fast as they can with NO regard for control or technique or their partner. The goal seems to hit the other person in the face/head at whatever the cost. A 19 year old guy who works his arms and shoulder with weights, is 6'1" so he throwing downward at my 5'2" is trying to knock me out by swinging wildly with all the power and speed he has with no regard for my safety and you wonder why I want NO part of that? really?
At some point Yes I will be able to deal with him but not now and not here. At that point my instructor will spar with him and teach him that if You hit hard you Get hit hard. Guess who hits harder????

Lori

[bluewaveschool]

We had a brown belt, 6'4 275lb man child that got one too many chances by our instructors. He got let back in AFTER he threw a cop through a plate glass window.

He had been good for a while after the class was handed over to my father. He started doing this dumb wide arc, slow hook towards the body. I dodged the thing several times when i came home from college, sad move. Then on a night dad wasn't there and someone else was teaching, he caught a female yellow belt in the ribs. Hard. She acted like it was nothing, but next class she had black and blue ribs and her BF told us she was crying all night from the pain. My father was furious, which is pretty much the last thing you want if you have to spar him. Big boy and dad sparred, one punch was thrown. The crack of vinyl on face was LOUD. Eyes bulged out, then he said 'I got to go', put on his shoes and hasn't been seen in about 8 years.

The moral? Don't be the guy that pissed off head instructor. You WILL be made an example of.

Thankfully it didn't turn her off from sparring. Now that yellow belt is one of my instructors, and isn't afraid to spar anyone. She tells the little girls about being hit and that it might hurt, but you have to be strong and hit back just as hard. I have her teach SD on me to show the girls that they can beat up any guy. And no, I don't let her toss me around, she does just fine with me resisting.

[skeksi]

We don't spar in my school, but we roll and take the line. Some days I like it, some days I don't. Sometimes it's hard enough to keep me away from class for a few weeks. It has nothing to do with my school or instructors (both wonderful), but everything to do with my past history that can be brought up in free practice. When it's hard for me, I try to be mindful and keep at it, but if it's too scary I step off the mat. I'm lucky that no one at my school has asked questions, embarrassed me, or in any way implied I can't do it. I'm allowed to do what I can, when I can. And I hardly ever have to step off the mat anymore.

For complicated reasons, women may be hesitant to spar, and I think the best schools and teachers accept that and work with it. It's no different than any other kind of education--start where the student is, have high expectations, and give students support as they face each new challenge.